MidnightFlyer
Veteran Member
- Joined
- 16 May 2010
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What would you do about problems such as solve the New St capacity problems, ECML congestion or Manchester Piccadilly p13/14? 
Actually it will; there will be so much disruption and the work will be carried out in such a manner that at least 10% of the existing passengers will switch modes of transportThe New Street Gateway Project will hopefully facelift the station and make it look pretty but doesn't sort out the main problem which as you say is capacity.
Whilst Moor St opening is a good thing for extra platforms, you still have the bottleneck of the viaduct to Bordesley.
Maindee Curve is pointless as you miss out Newport, which would be a major revenue earner, plus you would be competing with ATW
. I wouldn't suggest they take the same frequency as ATW Complete flight of fancy but why not build a tunnel from University to East of BNS with new underground platforms at Five Ways and New Street.
What's Barnes got to do with it?![]()
OK here’s my small list for you all to chew on. Some of the ideas are definitely “out there” but some could be achieved and some are being achieved.
As far as I’m concerned, the whole ECML could do with an upgrade. This can then take the strain from the MML. This list is also designed to bring places like Hull and Sunderland up to an hourly frequency and bring a few places in from the railway wildernesss,
1. ECML
1.01 4-track at least as far as Peterborough, including Digswell Viaduct.
1.02 Welwyn overpass (still happening AFAIK)
1.03 Shaftholme Junction overpass (still happening AFAIK)
1.04 Overpass at Peterborough to take freight traffic from Peterborough-Leicester line over ECML onto Lincoln line
1.05 New service Sheffield-Chesterfield-Nottingham-London via Grantham. Extend to Leeds if capacity permits. New overpass at Grantham to take Nottingham->London services over ECML.
1.06 Newark flyover
1.07 Overpass to take Doncaster-Selby-Hull down line over ECML. Allow Hull Trains to run an hourly London KX to Hull service.
1.08 Overpass at Hambleton to take connecting up line over ECML
1.09 Overpass at Ardwick junction(?) to take Leeds->Sheffield services over Doncaster->Leeds services
1.10 4-track from remodelled Ardwick Junction(?) to north of Fitzwilliam station to allow fast services to overtake slow ones.
1.11 New station on passing loops at Thorpe (between Wakefield and Leeds)
1.12 2 new tracks on west throat of Leeds station from junction between Wakefield and Bradford Interchange lines to meet up with existing lines from Shipley. Move Shipley Line tracks over to current Harrogate line tracks. 2 New tracks for Harrogate line into Leeds station. 2-3 new platforms at Leeds station on current car park site. New multi-storey car park to take displaced cars (and possibly some more). 1 New track at south of Western throat from Whitehall Junction to current platform 17 at Leeds station.
1.13 Reopen Ulleskelf-Tadcaster-Wetherby-Harrogate line. Provide new service to London KX calling at these stations plus Doncaster. (Probably class 180, 220, 221,222 or short HST)
1.14 Reopen Leeds-Wetherby line. Provide Leeds-Wetherby-Harrogate service.
1.15 Electrify Neville Hill-Colton Junction
1.16 4-track Colton Junction-York Station
1.17 Reopen Malton-Pickering line and agree track access charges for NYMR. Provide Leeds/York-Whitby service.
1.18 Swap up and down through platforms at Darlington station. Build overpasses to take up services over ECML and down services into current down platform. Include connections for services from south-facing bay platforms (ie Middlesborough) in south overpass. (ie clear ECML of as many crossing movements as possible)
1.19 Reopen Leamside line
1.20 Reopen/build line from Durham through Lanchester, Consett and Rowlands Gill to the Metro Centre.
1.21 Reopen line from south of Washington to South Hylton station
1.22 Allow Grand Central to run hourly services for Sunderland and Bradford, with faster journey times on core ECML.
1.23 XC services currently running through Doncaster to run through Wakefield and Leeds.
1.24 New XC (or open access) service: Hull-Brough-Selby-Doncaster-Sheffield-Chesterfield-Derby-Tamworth-Lichfield City-Sutton Coldfield-Birmingham New Street-Bromsgrove-Droitwich Spa-Cheltenham-Gloucester-Bristol Parkway-Bristol Temple Meads
2. MML
2.01 Derby service no longer to run via Nottingham. MML to concentrate on core route to Derby. Pax between Sheffield and Derby can use the improved XC service.
2.02 Provide London St Pancras to Matlock service. In long term reopen Matlock to Buxton and provide through service to Manchester.
2.03 Remodel southern throat to Derby station in order to separate trains to/from Nottingham and Birmingham.
2.04 New bi-directional track between Dore and Sheffield station. New station on this track (single platform) to serve business park.
2.05 4-track northern throat of Sheffield station to where the 2 lines diverge
2.06 New station on Don Valley line serving Meadowhall
2.07 4 track from junction just north of Swinton station to junction just north of Rotherham
2.08 Re-route local trains between Sheffield and Rotherham onto Don Valley line. Separation now provided between fast and slow lines between Sheffield and Swinton, and full Separation provided between services from Sheffield-Doncaster and Leeds. (The cost will be a loss of connections at the current Meadowhall interchange, but these connections could be provided at Sheffield.)
2.09 Split Leeds-Sheffield local service (via Moorthorpe) into 2 services. Service 1 Stops at all stations on line in West Yorkshire plus Rotherham, Meadowhall and Sheffield. Service 2 stops at all stations on line in South Yorkshire plus Moorthorpe, Wakefield Westgate and Leeds. Time so any pax requiring to change between these are not waiting long. This will provide increased capacity and speed for local route.
HS2 or albatros if you prefer, should completely avoid Birmingham if you want an efficient run to the "real North". Nobody has ever answered my simple question "where are all these 15000 people an hour that want to do that journey?"
Think the Vic-Picc stuff got cancelles with the arrival of the MetrolinkAs for Piccadilly? This needs to be given another chance. That would solve a lot of the crowding, not only with P13/14 but the entire station (and alleviate the need for every second announcement to begin with "Please join the front train only, for ..... ").
Knew someone was going to come out with that - Not everyone uses reservation codes :P
I take it you mean Hitchin, where they are planning to bring the construction material in by road when there is a perfectly good railway available, although it's still a good idea. At Welwyn, separating out the fast lines and building a viaduct/tunnel combination that's good for 155 mph would be a good idea, allowing any future IC250 equivalent the possibility of 155 all the way from Hatfield.OK here’s my small list for you all to chew on. Some of the ideas are definitely “out there” but some could be achieved and some are being achieved.
As far as I’m concerned, the whole ECML could do with an upgrade. This can then take the strain from the MML. This list is also designed to bring places like Hull and Sunderland up to an hourly frequency and bring a few places in from the railway wildernesss,
1. ECML
1.01 4-track at least as far as Peterborough, including Digswell Viaduct.
1.02 Welwyn overpass (still happening AFAIK)
Plus1.03 Shaftholme Junction overpass (still happening AFAIK)
1.04 Overpass at Peterborough to take freight traffic from Peterborough-Leicester line over ECML onto Lincoln line
Or a rearranged diveunder at the site of the old Barkston Jcn.1.05 New service Sheffield-Chesterfield-Nottingham-London via Grantham. Extend to Leeds if capacity permits. New overpass at Grantham to take Nottingham->London services over ECML.
Better done to the south at Black Carr, to take up Leeds services over the fast lines, with two new platforms between Doncaster station and the Plant (currently rusty sidings)1.06 Newark flyover
1.07 Overpass to take Doncaster-Selby-Hull down line over ECML. Allow Hull Trains to run an hourly London KX to Hull service.
I'd be considering Harrogate-Ripon-Northallerton as well, providing a KX-Donny-Ulleskelf-Tadcaster-Wetherby-Harrogate-Ripon-Northallerton-Sunderland route.1.08 Overpass at Hambleton to take connecting up line over ECML
1.09 Overpass at Ardwick junction(?) to take Leeds->Sheffield services over Doncaster->Leeds services
1.10 4-track from remodelled Ardwick Junction(?) to north of Fitzwilliam station to allow fast services to overtake slow ones.
1.11 New station on passing loops at Thorpe (between Wakefield and Leeds)
1.12 2 new tracks on west throat of Leeds station from junction between Wakefield and Bradford Interchange lines to meet up with existing lines from Shipley. Move Shipley Line tracks over to current Harrogate line tracks. 2 New tracks for Harrogate line into Leeds station. 2-3 new platforms at Leeds station on current car park site. New multi-storey car park to take displaced cars (and possibly some more). 1 New track at south of Western throat from Whitehall Junction to current platform 17 at Leeds station.
1.13 Reopen Ulleskelf-Tadcaster-Wetherby-Harrogate line. Provide new service to London KX calling at these stations plus Doncaster. (Probably class 180, 220, 221,222 or short HST)
1.14 Reopen Leeds-Wetherby line. Provide Leeds-Wetherby-Harrogate service.
Certainly!!!1.15 Electrify Neville Hill-Colton Junction
Ditto!!!1.16 4-track Colton Junction-York Station
I'd consider a Swindon-style solution, with platforms on the up freight line (not repeating the mistake of building on top of the down loop, which they did there)1.17 Reopen Malton-Pickering line and agree track access charges for NYMR. Provide Leeds/York-Whitby service.
1.18 Swap up and down through platforms at Darlington station. Build overpasses to take up services over ECML and down services into current down platform. Include connections for services from south-facing bay platforms (ie Middlesborough) in south overpass. (ie clear ECML of as many crossing movements as possible)
Certainly!!!1.19 Reopen Leamside line
Metro extension or heavy rail? If we're considering Metro extensions, how about St James'-Metrocentre1.20 Reopen/build line from Durham through Lanchester, Consett and Rowlands Gill to the Metro Centre.
1.21 Reopen line from south of Washington to South Hylton station
1.22 Allow Grand Central to run hourly services for Sunderland and Bradford, with faster journey times on core ECML.
1.23 XC services currently running through Doncaster to run through Wakefield and Leeds.
1.24 New XC (or open access) service: Hull-Brough-Selby-Doncaster-Sheffield-Chesterfield-Derby-Tamworth-Lichfield City-Sutton Coldfield-Birmingham New Street-Bromsgrove-Droitwich Spa-Cheltenham-Gloucester-Bristol Parkway-Bristol Temple Meads
Under my GCR plan, Nottingham would have high-speed services to Marylebone/Euston (about 60 minutes). XC would then run direct to Sheffield and over the Woodhead to Manchester.2. MML
2.01 Derby service no longer to run via Nottingham. MML to concentrate on core route to Derby. Pax between Sheffield and Derby can use the improved XC service.
Both worth considering2.02 Provide London St Pancras to Matlock service. In long term reopen Matlock to Buxton and provide through service to Manchester.
2.03 Remodel southern throat to Derby station in order to separate trains to/from Nottingham and Birmingham.
My version involves diverting all former LNER lines to Victoria2.04 New bi-directional track between Dore and Sheffield station. New station on this track (single platform) to serve business park.
2.05 4-track northern throat of Sheffield station to where the 2 lines diverge
I'd reopen Rotherham Masborough for the former LMS lines, with former LNER traffic running via Rotherham Central2.06 New station on Don Valley line serving Meadowhall
2.07 4 track from junction just north of Swinton station to junction just north of Rotherham
2.08 Re-route local trains between Sheffield and Rotherham onto Don Valley line. Separation now provided between fast and slow lines between Sheffield and Swinton, and full Separation provided between services from Sheffield-Doncaster and Leeds. (The cost will be a loss of connections at the current Meadowhall interchange, but these connections could be provided at Sheffield.)
Roughly the same thing. I'm basically talking about splitting up former LNER and LMS services. Anything running into Victoria would also be electrified.2.09 Split Leeds-Sheffield local service (via Moorthorpe) into 2 services. Service 1 Stops at all stations on line in West Yorkshire plus Rotherham, Meadowhall and Sheffield. Service 2 stops at all stations on line in South Yorkshire plus Moorthorpe, Wakefield Westgate and Leeds. Time so any pax requiring to change between these are not waiting long. This will provide increased capacity and speed for local route.
EDIT - I should have declared my interest. A lot of these projects involve bridges/overpasses. I am a bridge engineer who does a lot of railway work. I would possibly benefit if some of these schemes went ahead, but I do believe that a program of grade separating junctions would remove a lot of conflicting moves, and enable more and faster services to go ahead.