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What would have happened if Broad Street Station never shut?

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AlanFry1

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What do you all think would have happened? IMO, the ELL LO stuff would never have happened - They would have diverted many of the GEML suburban trains (Shenfield/Gidea Park/Ilford) here, via Stratford, Dalston and Hoxton via reinstating the curve. I also imagine they would have done away with the Ilford flyover in the process.

I also imagine they would have moved majority of the Watford DC line services here, especially needed to boost HS2.

Also, I would have imagined they would have moved Chingford/Enfield/Cheshunt/Broxbourne services to here also, well some(!) to help out with the Bethnal bottleneck.

What are your takes on what would have happened? Broad Street should never have closed. NEVER.
 
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AM9

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What do you all think would have happened? IMO, the ELL LO stuff would never have happened - They would have diverted many of the GEML suburban trains (Shenfield/Gidea Park/Ilford) here, via Stratford, Dalston and Hoxton via reinstating the curve. I also imagine they would have done away with the Ilford flyover in the process.

I also imagine they would have moved majority of the Watford DC line services here, especially needed to boost HS2.

Also, I would have imagined they would have moved Chingford/Enfield/Cheshunt/Broxbourne services to here also, well some(!) to help out with the Bethnal bottleneck.

What are your takes on what would have happened? Broad Street should never have closed. NEVER.
Why would all the GEML services from the Electric lines to Shenfield be diverted around the slow route via Dalston? Also Broad street is not long enough for 200m trains owing to the proximity of the elevated tracks going towards Dalston.
 

30907

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Maybe an outer suburban electric service from Tring (as in steam days) and from the GN. In which case Thameslink 2000 wouldn't have happened in anything like its current form. Possibly some sort of service would still have run towards Stratford.
Nothing off the GEML because of the flat junction with the fast lines at Stratford.
Not sure whether an ELL extension would have happened, but if so, only to Dalston Jn (or maybe thence to Stratford?)
 

AlanFry1

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Why would all the GEML services from the Electric lines to Shenfield be diverted around the slow route via Dalston? Also Broad street is not long enough for 200m trains owing to the proximity of the elevated tracks going towards Dalston.

This would have helped free capacity up at Liverpool Street and mean no crossrail terminators to go there..
 

306024

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Strange question, but even stranger justification. Gidea Park trains to Broad Street via Dalston? Not April 1 is it?

Quite simply billions of pounds (by now) would have been lost to the economy. The Broadgate development, which is now being re-developed already, is far more important to the nation. At the time it also helped fund the redevelopment of Liverpool St.
 

Dr_Paul

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Perhaps a completely new Broad Street station could have been incorporated in the Broadgate development, maybe with four or six platforms. The old Broad Street had lots of redundant space, including a large station throat and a long-disused goods yard to the west, along with much space underneath the station, all of which could have been profitably sold off for redevelopment whilst leaving room for a new station and a slimmer approach down from Great Eastern Street. I don't see why this could not have been combined with the East London Line northern extension, as the route to Dalston Junction has space for four tracks.
 

Sad Sprinter

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First things first, is what would have stopped its closure?

Lets say, its because the Northern Heights project went ahead after all, and the Northern Line continued to use the Northern City Line to Moorgate. This would mean, that by the time the GN Electrification scheme would come around, you would have three choices of how you could wire the GN Electrics to Moorgate:

1. Rebore and wire the Widened Lines tunnels from Kings Cross York Road-which would be difficult to do.

2. Forget wiring to Moorgate. Keep GN trains at Kings Cross and use Finsbury Park as cross platform interchange with the Northern Line to Moorgate-not a pratical plan because Kings Cross would get very busy in peak hours.

3. Keep GN trains going to Broad Street.

I think number 3 is what would happen. All you would have to do is electrify the Canonbury Cruve and the 313s could run down the third rail to Broad Street.

Inevitably, this would breathe some life into the station-however North London Line services and Watford DC services would still be run down and ultimately diverted from Broad Street in the alte 80s. Broad Street would be given the same treatment as Charing Cross, and turned into a huge 1980s style office development oppressing the station platfroms below.

By the late 80s, Broad Street would be closed on the weekends. Network South East would come under pressure to close the station and redevelop the site. The 1989 Central London Route Study would be very interesting aand I wouldn't be surprised if it involved a plan to close Broad Street and replace it with a Crossrail type route to somewhere south of the river. This would still never be built as the Chelsea to Hackney/East-West Crossrail combination would still be the best value for money.

The ELL would still happen I think, because the Broad Street viaduct was built with four tracks in mind. So the ELL would continue past the BR tracks. So the ELX would still proposed in 1990s as it was in our world.

Through the 90s, not much would change, however I wouldn't be surprised if Thameslink 2000 included the GN electric lines in its plan so the Broad Street viaduct can be used for the ELL.

Even if this is the case, there would be no political changes so Thameslink 2000 would still happen 20 years after it was meant to open.

By the early 2000s, expect the SRA to put forward proposals to use the Bishopsgate Goods Yard as as bridge into Broad Street to take Shenfield Metro services away from Liverpool Street. This would not be possible by ELL extension works of course and faced with a choice between the ELX or helping Shenfield Metro passengers politically I think the ELX will pervail.

Broad Street would still be open by 2019 and would be open 7 days a week. It will grow in importance when Crossrail opens and Canary Wharf will be only a few stops away. I would expect the Canonbury to Broad Street section to be quite busy especially with people coming from Dalston into Central London as the East End becomes more developed. We would look back as that London Station that for many years would teeter on the edge of oblivion but would one day come into its own, and we'd be very glad to of kept it.
 

30907

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Lets say, its because the Northern Heights project went ahead after all, and the Northern Line continued to use the Northern City Line to Moorgate. This would mean, that by the time the GN Electrification scheme would come around, you would have three choices of how you could wire the GN Electrics to Moorgate:
...3. Keep GN trains going to Broad Street.

An interesting scenario, but in that case I think the ELL extension might have taken over the GN inners, increased frequency compensating for shorter trains. How you would manage the conflict through Canonbury with the NLL I don't know - a flyover would have required removing Mildmay Park road bridge. But supposing that is resolved - Broad Street has probably now closed after all!
On second thoughts, it has LM outer-suburbans as per my previous post, and possibly some of the Richmonds....obviously as far as Camden Road is 4-track.
Stratford to Dalston is perhaps (also) served as an extension of the Lea/Lee Valley route...
 

Bald Rick

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As has been said before, Liverpool St would not have been redeveloped, and amongst other things there would be lots of 8 coach trains running around the GE and WA today rather than the 12 coaches needed.
 
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