What would constitute a good first class service?

[whoshotjimmi]

Apparent failings by some TOC's to provide a truly first class service have got me thinking.

What are we looking for from First Class? What would make us appreciate it more? What is done well? What is done poorly? Who are the saints and sinners of the First Class world? Are you a regular First Class passenger and why do you choose to travel as such as opposed to standard class?

C'mon people! The floor is open!

 

[ukrob]

Virgin weekday first class on a Pendolino is fantastic.

 

[voyagerdude220]

I really like the new Virgin Trains "Best of British" menus, as the produce i've encountered has been far far tastier, and IMO superior to the already very good quality FC offer which Virgin ran last year.

I've unfortunately only managed one trip with the full weekday "Best of British" offer so far, on a Chester to London Super Voyager all the way, and i was very happy with the huge improvement on the Super Voyager side of things.

I've not yet seen, let alone experienced the Pendolino offer, although i know the all day, and probably also the evening meal menus will be very similar, if not the same, i know that the Pendolino breakfast is far superior.

(Sorry i've not really answered the OP's question)

 

[delt1c]

On my travels Virgin WC have to come out tops for first class , plenty of at seat service and excellent breakfast.
GNER would have come second, their breakfast was even better than Virgin but not included in the price.
FGW OK again at seat service included.
Stanstead express 317/7 1st class is very nice as is the Capital conect 319 1st class section.
Bottom has to be the likes of SET whose 1st class is the very same as standard, same seat, no service, only difference a little white anti macaser on the seat, pure rip of it isnt even divided from the standard class saloon

 

[yorkie]

Bottom has to be the likes of SET whose 1st class is the very same as standard, same seat, no service, only difference a little white anti macaser on the seat, pure rip of it isnt even divided from the standard class saloon

I suspect it only exists to bring in income from penalty fares for unwitting passengers who don't realise it's First class! Plus a few quid from the super-rich with more cash than braincells.

 

[me123]

I suspect it only exists to bring in income from penalty fares for unwitting passengers who don't realise it's First class! Plus a few quid from the super-rich with more cash than braincells.

On Scotrail 158s (where FC is/was poorly defined), they usually don't charge a penalty fare provided the passenger moves. I've never seen or heard of it up here, anyway.

In my experience, First Class is used by people on Advance tickets who can afford that bit more and people who's companies are paying. And both will have decreased with the current recession. I'd never pay for First Class except for on Virgin (and maybe NXEC or a similar long distance operator), and even then I'd only do it on special occasions with very cheap Advance tickets. As of yet, I've never travelled.

My father, however, travels FC all the time because his company pays. He's high enough that (at the moment) the company will pay for FC fares.

 

[Daimler]

On my travels Virgin WC have to come out tops for first class , plenty of at seat service and excellent breakfast.
GNER would have come second, their breakfast was even better than Virgin but not included in the price.
FGW OK again at seat service included.
Stanstead express 317/7 1st class is very nice as is the Capital conect 319 1st class section.
Bottom has to be the likes of SET whose 1st class is the very same as standard, same seat, no service, only difference a little white anti macaser on the seat, pure rip of it isnt even divided from the standard class saloon

The same's almost true for Southern. What's interesting about Southern's 1st class is that the coach with some 1st class in it has all the seats to 1st class 'standard'. Everywhere else in the train is 2+3 with no tables or armrests, but in the coach with first class you get armrests, tables, and 2+2 seating - 1st class is the same plus an antimacassar. So you could (almost!) argue that Southern was providing standard class passengers with 'declassified' first. Though how seats with such 'sandpaperish' upholstery can constitute 1st class I've no idea...

I only travel first class occasionally at weekends or when I get a cheap advance ticket. When I do, it's on long journeys on operators like FGW and NXEC, where I find second class cramped - before FGW refurbished their trains, I travelled in second class normally, but since the gap between first and second has become a gulf (leather seats in first class...lovely) I usually try and book well in advance to get cheap first class tickets. It also means you can usually pick and choose your seat at weekends, as there's hardly anyone else in there!


As for the best first class, that's got to be Wrexham & Shropshire - polite, attentive service from friendly stewards, and, best of all, excellent complimentary meals served on every train 7 days a week - no other company does that, I don't think!

 

[SqUaShIe P]

Hmm... First Class... Well it can often be enjoyable when the train has stopped at a station, and you can look down your nose at all the SC passengers on the platform

Although, most of the time, I am one of those SC passengers myself...

Big Comfy seats is always a big plus in FC. and I sopose the tea aint bad eigther, although, im not really a big tea drinker...

FC is only good when it costs less than SC!

 

[MCR247]

The same's almost true for Southern. What's interesting about Southern's 1st class is that the coach with some 1st class in it has all the seats to 1st class 'standard'. Everywhere else in the train is 2+3 with no tables or armrests, but in the coach with first class you get armrests, tables, and 2+2 seating - 1st class is the same plus an antimacassar.

This is only on half of the 377/1s and the /2s, /4s and /5s(?).

 

[Failed Unit]

On my travels Virgin WC have to come out tops for first class , plenty of at seat service and excellent breakfast.
GNER would have come second, their breakfast was even better than Virgin but not included in the price.
FGW OK again at seat service included.
Stanstead express 317/7 1st class is very nice as is the Capital conect 319 1st class section.
Bottom has to be the likes of SET whose 1st class is the very same as standard, same seat, no service, only difference a little white anti macaser on the seat, pure rip of it isnt even divided from the standard class saloon

You must be very **** off however if you pay for 1st class on Stansted express and you end up with 2x 317/8's! The same really on the old Great Northern route nice seat in first class on the 365's but one the 317's first class is worse than standard on many other routes, including former regional railways routes.

On Scotrail 158s (where FC is/was poorly defined), they usually don't charge a penalty fare provided the passenger moves. I've never seen or heard of it up here, anyway.

I have never understood why trains on routes such as Edinburgh - Dunblane are not advertised as first class the majority of trains that work the routes off it. I have noticed that if you sit in 1st class on this route on either a 158 or 170 the gaurd treats it as declassified anyway (I have never been asked to move or excess either).

To me at the very minimum you should get more room in 1st class. The scotrail 170's for example offer better seats the 158's are exactly the same so really you are just getting you "free" tea / coffee. SWT however the 1st seat in the 158's is an improvement on standard. I know the 317's are better seats than standard on the unit concerned but not compared to other units that operate the same services. even 317/5 -v- 317/6 are a big gulf.

I think in the SouthEast you are paying the premium to definately get a seat whereas in the regional area you get some refreshments. In Inter-City they need to take a bit more care of you in the same way the airlines do with economy / business.

 

[maddeningcrowds]

Basic advantages of first class (particularly important on the horrendously busy trains where these basics aren't available in standard):

- you get a seat, and the seat always has plenty of legroom and a table
- you can get to your seat without stress
- you have plenty of room to store your luggage nearby
- no games of sardines when stretching your legs
- no drunk football fans or leery overweight men etc.

Summary of basics: stress-free worry-free environment.

Extras you should get but often don't:

- polite, respectful, informed and fast service
- tea/coffee/water/juice, snacks (no extra fee)
- meals served at seat (possibly for a charge; no need to walk through crowds or wait in queues for the buffet)
- clean, well-stocked toilet! (A basic you would think for first class but so often they are manky)

By the way I would never in a million years consider paying the full open ticket price for first class. Its just not worth it. Sometimes I do it on AP.

 

[90019]

I have never understood why trains on routes such as Edinburgh - Dunblane are not advertised as first class the majority of trains that work the routes off it. I have noticed that if you sit in 1st class on this route on either a 158 or 170 the gaurd treats it as declassified anyway (I have never been asked to move or excess either).

On shorter routes, first class is declassified on FSR trains.

 

[tbtc]

First class should mean:

1. 1/2 seating (regardless of whether the "normal" seats are 2/2 or 2/3)
2. Situated at the "London" end (where applicable) - it must be confusing using EMT when you don't know which end of the platform to stand at for your First Class coach
3. Closest to the Buffet (strange that the Voyagers are built with a the "shop" at the other end to First Class

Apart from that it all depends on the nature of the service - a restaurant service wouldn't be suitable on every service with First Class for example

 

[Mojo]

I think also that First class should only really be on routes where it is easily monitored by railway staff. On many routes First class seems to be a synonym for "troublemakers sit here" or "overflow seating in case of crowding."

 

[D841]

As for the best first class, that's got to be Wrexham & Shropshire - polite, attentive service from friendly stewards, and, best of all, excellent complimentary meals served on every train 7 days a week - no other company does that, I don't think!

Hull Trains do, too.

 

[Pumbaa]

3. Closest to the Buffet (strange that the Voyagers are built with a the "shop" at the other end to First Class

I think the rationale here was the same as the Pendos - as they have the shop (buffet) in the middle of Standard in C. They have a dedicated FC kitchen though, and there is never any need for FC passengers to visit the Shop, as FC stewards will do it for you. Unfortunately, service never peaked that high on the Voyagers.

 

[The_Rail_WAy]

For me I seldom travel first class - the whole class system to me seems a bit pretentious anyway and something of a bygone age.

Nevertheless, If travelling in first class I would expect:

A much comfier seat than standard.
More leg room.
A clean table.
Fast service.
An array of food and drink available.
A clean toilet.
Value for money.

 

[stut]

For business travel, first class is all about gaining lost time. So I expect to be able to work on board - so, the space and elbow room to use a full-size laptop, power points and wi-fi.

The next part is flexibility. i know when meetings start, but don't know when they end. Am happy to commit to a train going out, but want some choices coming back. And no, just because I'm on company money doesn't mean I have access to a bottomless pit of funds.

Finally, catering. If I need to leave at 6 to visit a customer, or am getting home at 9, then I need to eat. And a station pastie doesn't cut it.

I don't live in London, and so do want direct, cross-country and intermediate stop trains to get me there with minimum changes. For most journeys, rail can't compete with air on speed (it may on London inter-city, but not from here), or with car on flexibility. So it needs comfort and convenience as mentioned above to be worthwhile.

 

[voyagerdude220]

Unfortunately, service never peaked that high on the Voyagers.

On Virgin Super Voyagers, you can enjoy an at-seat service in First Class at weekends, of tea/coffee, soft drinks, fruit, muffins and biscuits, unless you are travelling north of Preston.

 

[movilla]

I think also that First class should only really be on routes where it is easily monitored by railway staff. On many routes First class seems to be a synonym for "troublemakers sit here" or "overflow seating in case of crowding."

Living in Bushey (south of Watford), first class didn't make much sense since it was just a 20 minute trip to Euston. However, as Bushey got more popular, the trains got much busier to the point of being lucky to get on the train, so a while back I had considered paying the extra for first class. However, the one thing that really put me off was seeing 1st class being used by people that obviously weren't paying for it. I could see that all 1st class seats were occupied, and if I had have been paying for it, I know I would have gone ballistic. So I just pay for the standard class and suffer the consequences.

 

[whoshotjimmi]

I think it's time I explained why I opened this thread.

During a discussion on another thread regarding NXEC cutting down provisions regarding First Class and restaurant cars, I couldn't help but wonder what NXEC first class customers were paying for and whether they were happy with it.

It is becoming obvious to me that, when paying First Class prices, passengers ought to expect a much superior product. There has also been a post or two regarding First Class at Hull Trains comparing it to NXEC. I am now of the view that East Coast customers are paying money for a basic service whilst West Coast passengers are paying similar amounts for much, much more.

On non intercity routes, the opinion seems to be that First Class is really just a bit of a faff with no specific benefit nor any real policing of it.

Here's my view.

One pays for the service one expects to receive. For a £30 standard, I expect a seat to London and back with the option to place my bag above my head. For a £100 first class, I would expect a very comfortable seat, to be welcomed on board, to have a nice place to wait for the train and to receive a complimentary breakfast, lunch or dinner served to me at my table. I would also expect to be offered a copy of the news. At a push, I would also like a bit of entertainment on my journey. I'm not looking for jugglers or comedians, but maybe a radio station or two to choose from. Maybe we could glean an idea or two from the German idea of First Class. Above all, I expect a greatly superior service to the one I receive for much less further down the train.

As such it appears that NX are to be avoided and Virgin and the Open Access Operators are to be frequented.

 

[Failed Unit]

On Virgin Super Voyagers, you can enjoy an at-seat service in First Class at weekends, of tea/coffee, soft drinks, fruit, muffins and biscuits, unless you are travelling north of Preston.

Which is in terms of time and mileage the longest part of the journey! To me the difference in the standard of service on a Pendo and Voyager is disgusting considering they are operated by the same company. You leave Glasgow on the 0735 going to Preston and you get a full breakfast, leave on the 0800 and pay the same fare you have to walk to the shop and get a microwaved bacon roll. I know people avoid the voyagers for that reason, but to the average passenger who isn't in the know it is an annoying mistake. I made it myself as the voyagers advertise on the timetable breakfast, I thought they had improved the catering to match the pendo's with the improved kitchens due to their use on the North Wales route. Nope, I should have left 25 minutes earlier!

As such it appears that NX are to be avoided and Virgin and the Open Access Operators are to be frequented.

I don't think that is really true, yes you get free food with Virgin but it is not always worth it. It is like some airlines that offer a kit-kat and coffee on short hauls. Virgin in the day is very airline, so hit and miss if you really want to eat it. I would prefer to have a slightly cheaper ticket with the option of paying for food if you want it! Virgin are however at the moment ahead of NX for offering refreshments to people, I have known no shows between Newcastle and Edinburgh very frequently.

 

[Tom B]

Virgin are however at the moment ahead of NX for offering refreshments to people, I have known no shows between Newcastle and Edinburgh very frequently.

The trouble is you can't rely on it - some staff will bring the trolley up and down constantly, whereas some will whiz around at the start and you'll never see them again. Should you enquire of the trolley dolly (who is probably siting with her feet up reading the paper) when she's next coming around, it's probably "oh, later".

 

[Failed Unit]

The trouble is you can't rely on it - some staff will bring the trolley up and down constantly, whereas some will whiz around at the start and you'll never see them again. Should you enquire of the trolley dolly (who is probably siting with her feet up reading the paper) when she's next coming around, it's probably "oh, later".

Maybe we should have the push for service buttons that we have on the airlines instead.

 

[yorksrob]

On my travels down South I always find the electrostars very decent trains - particularly as they manage to pack a lot of people in without being oppressively cramped. However, First Class is frankly rubbish - I mean whats the point? It's exactly the same as second only with slightly different upholstery. What passengers used to Mk 1 1st class compartments must have thought on the changeover I don't know.
If travelling 1st i expect two things:
-Larger more comfortable seats.
-A firm partition between 1st and 2nd.
I know this is anachronistic and class ridden but unfortunately thats how society is. I only travel 1st class on EMT's HST's as they have good offers and are extremely comfortable. The rest of the time I'm firmly in second (sorry - standard) class. However, I believe that a proper 1st class (not just a slightly different moquette) is vital to the railway because it ensures that the wealthy travel on trains as well as the rest of us and that the railway isn't stigmatized in the same way that busses have been (remember Maggie's comment on anyone over 30 travelling on a bus being a failure). The railway needs to cater for all of society and 1st needs to be a distinctively good experience.

That aside, with EMT you get a comfy seat (sometimes with an individual table) a window, staff plying you with peanuts and tea and a nice view. What more do you need! - Except perhaps a compartment of course.

 

[87031]

Did a 1st Class ALR recently and was overall impressed with the service etc of 1st class. I didnt use Virgin cos i detest Pendolinos and Voyagers so i cant comment. NXEC i used from Aberdeen and there where very frequent with the free complimentrys and although i had to pay for a meal and desert i had the ravioli spinach with full salad etc and Cheesecake which the quality was superb. Arriva Trains Wales was the best giving a FREE 3 course meal included. DIdnt sample all the TOCS but ive heard Wrexham and Shropshire are simialar to Arriva Trains Wales. Would say it was well worth the extra especially doing an ALR as you can save a lot of money if your a big Tea and Coffee drinker. FGW dpont have as many services with Full meal service but would like to sample what there food is like. Overall service was very good including NXEC which id herad a lot of bad reports about, Grand Central also included a light breakfast on the 0804 from Kings X, Cereal, Toast and a couple of pots of tea.

 

[yorksrob]

If I was paying the full non discounted 1st class fare I'd expect the full English
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Maybe we should have the push for service buttons that we have on the airlines instead.

Or pullmans !

 

[Geezertronic]

Virgin Trains First Class is exactly what is expected in my opinion. Nice breakfast on the way to London, nice meal on the way back to Birmingham. At seat service, always pleasant, always prompt.

 

[mathmo]

Virgin Trains First Class is exactly what is expected in my opinion. Nice breakfast on the way to London, nice meal on the way back to Birmingham. At seat service, always pleasant, always prompt.

When the staff are doing their jobs well, it is indeed very pleasant (although a more substantial meal would be nice!). But occasionally it seems they try to do the minimum they can (e.g. not many visits with the drinks trolley) and that's a shame. From comments on here, that seems to be the case particularly North of Preston.

 

[Mojo]

Please stop digging up old threads.