What Will Work using those On-Train Sockets ?

[table38]

I wondered how much money you might save charging your mobile phone up on the train every day rather than at home.

A quick google suggested a Nokia charger uses around 5W whilst actually charging a phone.

Assuming you charge it for an hour on the way to work, and an hour on the way home, that's 0.01 kWh per day.

Assuming a 5 day week, and ignoring Bank Holidays etc. a 48 week year, that's 2.4 kWh a year.

Assuming a cost of 12p per kWh, that's a saving of 29p a year... not even enough to buy a Daily Mail

 

[ryan125hst]

I've always wondered how they cope with the neutral sections. On a pendilino or Intercity 225, for example, are the the sockets powered by the inverters for a few minutes? They can't cut out every time surely?

In fact, a couple of years ago, my Dad plugged in a portable CD player in (it had no batteries in it). I asked him whether it cut out or not afterwords and he said it was fine.

What about other services e.g. air conditioning, kitchen and buffet equipment ect. Do they go off for a few seconds? (Sorry to be slightly off topic).

 

[ainsworth74]

There are batteries that are capable of supplying power for short periods of time (such as the run through a neutral section). It's for this reason that if the wires go down or the power goes off you don't suddenly lose all lighting, A/C and the various other on board systems. Of course if everyone is charging their laptop/phone/microwave what have you those batteries won't last very long at all and once their gone it's bye bye to A/C and everything but emergency lights.

 

[Hydro]

My laptop flicks to battery power on 395's when we hit a neutral section. There are three between Ashford and St Pancs. One in the tunnel before STP, one at Singlewell and I can't remember the third.

 

[es373]

There are batteries that are capable of supplying power for short periods of time (such as the run through a neutral section). It's for this reason that if the wires go down or the power goes off you don't suddenly lose all lighting, A/C and the various other on board systems. Of course if everyone is charging their laptop/phone/microwave what have you those batteries won't last very long at all and once their gone it's bye bye to A/C and everything but emergency lights.

It's only emergency lighting and critical systems that are kept running via the batteries.
Air conditioning is put into a reduced running state.

 

[ainsworth74]

It's only emergency lighting and critical systems that are kept running via the batteries.
Air conditioning is put into a reduced running state.

Fair enough but there must be something to maintain a constant supply to the public sockets because like others when using longer distance coaching stock I've never noticed a loss of power as we go through neutral sections.

 

[bb21]

On Pendos at the end of Coach A, behind the last row of seats (47/48 I think), there is a socket which seems to go off everytime we hit a neutral section. It was pretty well hidden from the general public but has no markers near it saying 'Not for Public Use'.

 

[es373]

On electric traction, 25kV is put through a step down transformer which powers the sockets amongst other things.

 

[ainsworth74]

On electric traction, 25kV is put through a step down transformer which powers the sockets amongst other things.

And when it goes through a neutral section? What provides power to the sockets then?

 

[jon0844]

Why can't the power just cut out?

Bar microwaves, toasters and hair dryers, most things plugged in probably have a battery and are simply being charged, not directly powered.

 

[umontu]

And when it goes through a neutral section? What provides power to the sockets then?

Most likely there is a capacitor that smooths the voltage drop through the neutral section.

 

[es373]

Most likely there is a capacitor that smooths the voltage drop through the neutral section.

Yep! At least I think so anyway....

 

[Whistler40145]

How much power does a 57/3 provide to a Pendolino whilst on drag duties?

 

[mallard]

My laptop flicks to battery power on 395's when we hit a neutral section. There are three between Ashford and St Pancs. One in the tunnel before STP, one at Singlewell and I can't remember the third.

I've never noticed a neutral section on a 395, but I know it momentarily cuts out when the train switches between AC and DC power (at Ashford or Ebbsfleet).

 

[es373]

Sit in the unit that has the pantograph... Heard one a few weeks back as the pan dropped, Christ I've never jumped so much in my life!

 

[sprinterguy]

How much power does a 57/3 provide to a Pendolino whilst on drag duties?

Reportedly quite a lot: A 57/3 has a train supply index of 100 (whatever that translates as), which is similar to that of a class 90 or 91 (Train supply index 95). At the time that they were converted it was widely reported that a major part of the conversion was "beefing up" the level of train supply available in order to provide "hotel power" to the power hungry Pendolino auxillary systems.

 

[HSTEd]

A train supply index of 100 is 500kW

Thats alot.

 

[CheekyBandit]

so maybe we should get the george forman grill out and make our own restaurant service on a HST....

Once I wished I had brought my desktop fan as the aircon had failed - Upon asking another passenger, it appeared to be local to that particular coach so I moved.

 

[es373]

And your laptop probably went to battery because the transformer on the mains plug wont work if it can't detect a suitable voltage. I would keep stuff like laptops unplugged when it comes to using them on trains as it isn't uncommon for a train to leave a neutral section and then the voltage in the plugs spike just enough for the MCB not to trip but enough to blow the mains transformer on your charging cable.

 

[pinkpanther]

Be careful, the end of carriage plug may be 415V, not 220V.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Train systems (like shaver plugs) are 110V DC. The on-train power may be 450-550V AC

If it's a conventional mains socket, it will almost certainly be 220V nominal. 415V supplies are 3-phase, and use a different type of socket with round pins.

Regardless, I rather suspect surge protection to be a good idea if you are plugged into an on-train supply.

 

[Flamingo]

If it's a conventional mains socket, it will almost certainly be 220V nominal. 415V supplies are 3-phase, and use a different type of socket with round pins.

Regardless, I rather suspect surge protection to be a good idea if you are plugged into an on-train supply.

I was told different when I was training, but I'll ask a fitter next time I see one. The at-seat plugs on the hst's have been introduced since I trained.

I don't think they are surge protected, as they are intended to be used by cleaners when the train is stabled to a shore supply / engine at idle, not when powering up/down. That might have changed, again, next time I see a fitter I'll ask.

 

[tony_mac]

I was told different when I was training, but I'll ask a fitter next time I see one. The at-seat plugs on the hst's have been introduced since I trained.

I don't think they are surge protected, as they are intended to be used by cleaners when the train is stabled to a shore supply / engine at idle, not when powering up/down. That might have changed, again, next time I see a fitter I'll ask.

I have used the end-of-carriage plugs on a pendolino (and no, they aren't marked as 'not for public use', but they are covered with a flap).
They do not provide a stable electricity supply, but I am prepared to risk it blowing up my charger or phone - I wouldn't mind an excuse to buy a new phone anyway

Never mind, I missed a page

On Pendos at the end of Coach A, behind the last row of seats (47/48 I think), there is a socket which seems to go off everytime we hit a neutral section. It was pretty well hidden from the general public but has no markers near it saying 'Not for Public Use'.

what he said!

 

[RyanB]

Once used a portable DVD player on a train down to London and back a few years ago from Edinburgh (thinking that it was still in the good old GNER days) on what I think would have been an IC225 set, and didn't have too many problems.

 

[brianthegiant]

What I sometimes find a bit ridiculous is why are Network Rail are so anal in NR operated stations about passengers using using sockets. There seem to be 3 main arguments:

1) You're stealing our electricity (for my 100W laptop supply which probably draws on average more like 50W, at an electricity tarriff of 10p/kWh thats about 0.05 pence If I'm in the waiting room for a whole hour.

2) elf & safety bollocks: the laptop supply isn't PAT tested...(Portable Appliance Testing, as required for electircal equipment in commercial use)
So why is it ok to use the same supply in the trains and stations of many TOCS who provide sockets for the purpose... And given theres only a short length of cable at 230V and the power supply is Class II double insulated, what is the actual risk of an electric shock or fire? Sure for power tools and extension leads you see a lot of cable damage when they're PAT tested. But, anyone who's ever been involved in PAT testing will know that the failure rate for computer power cables is virtually zero.

3) thats the rules mate.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

Why are mini fridges so much more expensive than small microwaves ?

 

[dvboy]

What I sometimes find a bit ridiculous is why are Network Rail are so anal in NR operated stations about passengers using using sockets. There seem to be 3 main arguments:

1) You're stealing our electricity (for my 100W laptop supply which probably draws on average more like 50W, at an electricity tarriff of 10p/kWh thats about 0.05 pence If I'm in the waiting room for a whole hour.

2) elf & safety bollocks: the laptop supply isn't PAT tested...(Portable Appliance Testing, as required for electircal equipment in commercial use)
So why is it ok to use the same supply in the trains and stations of many TOCS who provide sockets for the purpose... And given theres only a short length of cable at 230V and the power supply is Class II double insulated, what is the actual risk of an electric shock or fire? Sure for power tools and extension leads you see a lot of cable damage when they're PAT tested. But, anyone who's ever been involved in PAT testing will know that the failure rate for computer power cables is virtually zero.

3) thats the rules mate.

Rare to find sockets in stations but I've been "told off" for charging my phone in a socket at Nottingham station before. Didn't stop me doing it again another time I was there.

 

[Ivo]

On the subject of train sockets, can anyone explain this one to me?

In February, on my way to the Great Escape forum meet, I plugged my phone in on a Voyager from BRI to BHM. No problem at all. On the way back though, ON THE SAME VOYAGER, it didn't work - and ever since then the phone has been pretty much useless, to the point that it hasn't worked at all since April!

I've seen people using the "Not for Public Use" sockets on 357s before now.

 

[ChrisTheRef]

Usually there are plugs marked 'not for public use' at the end of coaches for this.

One night on the seated sleeper I was watching a movie on my laptop, when the guard came down he pointed me towards the first single seat and told me I could use the plug under the seat if I wanted to.

Whereas I was sat in the same seat with my laptop resting on my lap and told "don't even think about using that plug"

 

[DaveNewcastle]

. . . . anyone who's ever been involved in PAT testing will know that the failure rate for computer power cables is virtually zero.

My experience is different.
There have been a considerable number of IEC mains leads (often, and wrongly, called 'kettle leads') found which have non conducting earth pins and consequently fail a PAT test. These are commonly used to power portable and installed IT equipment and depending on the application can present a considerable hazard.

 

[table38]

We wind the sparks up at work by asking them what the "T" stands for in "PAT Test". But then they also say "AC Current"