What will happen?

[lukeacatter]

Hello,

I was travelling to From Leeds to Liverpool to pick my step daughter up- and she forgot the railcard as I was picking her up then travelling on the same train back so on the way out she said she left it so I asked if it was ok or if he would like me to buy another railcard or is a picture ok, he said picture is ok. On the way back revenue protection gave me a irregularity report just before Leeds, then conductor came down after they got off and I showed him what happen and apologised saying that’s annoying because he said it was ok then gave me his full name and said they can email him, Iv replied to the train company transpennine, and just recieved the confirming address Mail,

What can I expect to happen? I really don’t want court also just realised that the railcard is in my partners and daughters name.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Welcome to the forum!

Just to clarify, are you saying that you/your stepdaughter were travelling from Liverpool to Leeds both using railcard discounted tickets?

When you were stopped for a ticket inspection, neither of you had a valid railcard with you?

And it now transpires that the railcard that is held is maybe a "Two Together" type railcard and you aren't one of the persons on the railcard?

 

[WesternLancer]

Does the 'Forgotten Railcard' policy work here, or have I misunderstood? eg this:

Can I claim a refund on the new ticket I have had to purchase because I forgot to carry my Railcard?

www.lner.co.uk

 

[lukeacatter]

Sorry it was a family and friends railcard. I travelled to Liverpool , on a adult full fare single, then getting the train straight back she just came to station but when travelling told me Iv forgot the railcard so I asked conductor he said oh it’s ok I’m in the way back on it (30 mins turnaround) I had offered to go buy another pointless as just bought this 1 week ago then we had rail discounted tickets in form of family and friend railcard on the way back , she’s only a child but now seen it needs the adult to have it in my name, what’s going to happen regarding this ? Never had a time before. I know the single anytime fare is high. Are they likely to ask for court?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Apr 2022 ==

Iv sent the railcard in her name but realised now it should’ve been in my name regardless.- so this ain’t suffix As a child can’t be named the holder, regardless it was only me who got the fine, do you think they’re going to go to court? Or fine?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Apr 2022 ==

Does the 'Forgotten Railcard' policy work here, or have I misunderstood? eg this:

Can I claim a refund on the new ticket I have had to purchase because I forgot to carry my Railcard?

www.lner.co.uk

It’s named in my step daughter name, who was with me, so when I said Iv forgot it I wasn’t one of the cardholder my girlfriend put my step daughters name and her name

 

[Fawkes Cat]

There’s lots of things here, but the key advice is - don’t panic: the worst that can happen is that you will be taken to court and fined (which I know isn’t good, but is much better than going to prison), and the news might be better than that.

One way that it might be better is if it turns out that you were entitled to use the Family and Friends railcard except you forgot to take it with you. In that case, as people have said above you will probably be able to send a picture of the railcard to the company and there will be nothing more to worry about. But remember that you are only allowed to do this once a year, so in future you will have to remember to take the railcard with you.

But if you didn’t own a valid railcard, the news isn’t quite so good: as above, the railway could take you to court, but it’s more likely they will ask you to pay an ‘out of court settlement’ which means you have too pay the train fare that you should have paid, plus their costs for dealing with the case: think a few hundred pounds. This will be less to pay than if you are taken to court.

So don’t panic! As we get to fully understand the facts of what has happened, hopefully we will be able to give more precise advice on what will probably happen.

 

[lukeacatter]

There’s lots of things here, but the key advice is - don’t panic: the worst that can happen is that you will be taken to court and fined (which I know isn’t good, but is much better than going to prison), and the news might be better than that.

One way that it might be better is if it turns out that you were entitled to use the Family and Friends railcard except you forgot to take it with you. In that case, as people have said above you will probably be able to send a picture of the railcard to the company and there will be nothing more to worry about. But remember that you are only allowed to do this once a year, so in future you will have to remember to take the railcard with you.

But if you didn’t own a valid railcard, the news isn’t quite so good: as above, the railway could take you to court, but it’s more likely they will ask you to pay an ‘out of court settlement’ which means you have too pay the train fare that you should have paid, plus their costs for dealing with the case: think a few hundred pounds. This will be less to pay than if you are taken to court.

So don’t panic! As we get to fully understand the facts of what has happened, hopefully we will be able to give more precise advice on what will probably happen.

Thank you , I won’t panic will see what they say

 

[WesternLancer]

Thank you , I won’t panic will see what they say

Yes, see what they say - then head back here for advice on what you need to do next.

Sounds to me like due to a misunderstanding on your part - you did not in fact have a valid railcard to use (as your name not on it) - even if it had not been forgotten. Unless the terms of the railcard allow your step daughter - who if I understand it correctly IS named on the railcard, to take you as a 'friend'. You can check that by reading the railcard T&Cs on line or others here will know.
eg from here

Are you eligible - Family & Friends Railcard

www.familyandfriends-railcard.co.uk

I am assuming in all this that your step daughter is Under 16 ? But you also say is named on the railcard ? I know that F&F railcard holders can take other adults with them at the discount - so if this is the scenario then can your step daughter take you as an accompanying adult if she is named on the railcard and also is under 16? (I would think the more usual scenario would be you and her mother being named on the railcard allowing either of you to take your step daughter on the train as required - but may be it works both ways round?) - apols as I have not had a F&F railcard myself at any time recently.

Anyway - good luck in sorting this out - plenty of help will be forthcoming here if you need it - so when you need to head back here with any questions or requests for advice on what best to do to minimise any problems.

 

[AlterEgo]

Yes, see what they say - then head back here for advice on what you need to do next.

Sounds to me like due to a misunderstanding on your part - you did not in fact have a valid railcard to use (as your name not on it) - even if it had not been forgotten. Unless the terms of the railcard allow your step daughter - who if I understand it correctly IS named on the railcard, to take you as a 'friend'. You can check that by reading the railcard T&Cs on line or others here will know.

Indeed, the F+F railcard named holder must be an adult, which the railway defines as over 16.

 

[WesternLancer]

Indeed, the F+F railcard named holder must be an adult, which the railway defines as over 16.

but the OP says this - so I am confused, since i assume the step daughter is under 16. I think the OP needs to explain a bit more clearly perhaps.

It’s named in my step daughter name, who was with me, so when I said Iv forgot it I wasn’t one of the cardholder my girlfriend put my step daughters name and her name

 

[lukeacatter]

but the OP says this - so I am confused, since i assume the step daughter is under 16. I think the OP needs to explain a bit more clearly perhaps.

Yeah step daughter is under 16, I’ll take it on the chin, genuine mistake and I’m hoping they contact the coductor as he was ok with it.

They can see it been a genuine mistake if i have to pay a fine I pay a fine. Just more worried about court as I’m buying a house and on the application it states have you ever got a criminal conviction…

 

[WesternLancer]

Yeah step daughter is under 16, I’ll take it on the chin, genuine mistake and I’m hoping they contact the coductor as he was ok with it.

They can see it been a genuine mistake if i have to pay a fine I pay a fine. Just more worried about court as I’m buying a house and on the application it states have you ever got a criminal conviction…

Thanks - so is step daughter named on the Railcard as a 'named holder'? Given what @AlterEgo says this should not be possible if she is under 16 - but maybe the system allows it to happen even if in error.

If you have not seen the Railcard recently it may be a good idea to get a copy of it sent to you (eg picture of back and front) to know exactly how it is issued and who to (you could post a copy here in theory if you had any queries but I suspect that is not a good idea as I can't see how you could then anonymise it - which would be best to do)

As an aside I doubt they will contact the conductor sadly - if anything happens it will get passed to the 'revenue protection team' who will send you one of the standard letters people mention on here (that threatens court action etc) which gives you the chance to explain your side of the sorry in a reply.

Though helpful in that you were given the conductor's name so at least in theory you can include that in your reply (tho the conductor gave you permission to travel, at the time they did that of course they did not know the railcard was incorrect, just that you had forgotten the Railcard I assume)

So it may be that people on here can help you with that reply etc when needed.

I tend to think pretty unlikely to go to court so long as you engage with them when they write to you.

One thing you could do is consider buying a railcard in your own name now to use when travelling with your step daughter - as by doing this soon / now it would allow you to say in any reply to the railway eg "having realised this mistake I have now bought a railcard in my own name to ensure the problem does not arise again" or some such - just a thought.

Also - make a note of the train time you were on etc whilst you can remember it - it may be some weeks before you get the letter.

Also - you mention buying a house - so if you move anytime in next 6 to 8 months make sure you can still get post from your old address / get it forwarded by Royal Mail - as they have 6 months to start court action so you do not want that happening without knowing about it as it can be a lot more hassle to sort out.

 

[30907]

Just for reference, a F+F Railcard can have two adults named on it, and they don't have to travel together.
Whether that would be helpful in your particular circumstances I can't say.

 

[lukeacatter]

What are Trans Pennine Express like towards fare evaders?
Do they usually like to settle out of court?

 

[island]

I am still a little confused about this so perhaps someone can help – the named person/people on a Family & Friends railcard must be aged 16 or over and at least one of these two people plus at least one child must travel for the journey to be valid.

It does not appear to me that this condition has been met, so it seems to be that the question of whether what was shown was the original Railcard or a copy is a red-herring.

As others mention this is likely to be resolvable by paying a settlement but for future reference you will probably need to sort out a new Railcard as a child 15 or under cannot be one of the named people.

 

[lukeacatter]

Hello everyone, so Iv been given the opportunity to pay £78 for the original ticket and £100 costs I can’t really complain just call it an expensive mistake, also the anytime tickets are 115£ so it’s not bad at all.

Big relief thanks for the support

 

[WesternLancer]

Hello everyone, so Iv been given the opportunity to pay £78 for the original ticket and £100 costs I can’t really complain just call it an expensive mistake, also the anytime tickets are 115£ so it’s not bad at all.

Big relief thanks for the support

Obv not ideal costs wise but glad this has resulted in a clear offer to you that will resolve things without court etc.

Given it seems that you possibly didn't have a valid railcard after all (unknown to you at the time for reasons you have explained) I suspect it is probably best to accept this offer to close the matter. Sounds like that is your plan in any case.

 

[AlterEgo]

Hello everyone, so Iv been given the opportunity to pay £78 for the original ticket and £100 costs I can’t really complain just call it an expensive mistake, also the anytime tickets are 115£ so it’s not bad at all.

Big relief thanks for the support

You should also contact the Railcards team to see if they can sort out the railcard, which has the wrong name on it.

 

[Haywain]

You should also contact the Railcards team to see if they can sort out the railcard, which has the wrong name on it.

I think this is unlikely to be productive. Certainly if the railcard was purchased at a station the staff will have added whatever names were given and it cannot subsequently be changed (or refunded). I would expect the same to apply for a railcard bought online - that it is up to the purchaser to provide appropriate names.