What was/is the best class design ever made?

[37401]

Ever been on a 170 doing 125mph though?

does "In a dream count?"

 

[Phoenix]

does "In a dream count?"

believe me I dream that too when im on one on a Monday morning on the way to Uni.

 

[asylumxl]

Ever been on a 170 doing 125mph though?

How often do HSTs get to reach it?

 

[jopsuk]

Frequently, on the ECML and GWML

 

[Demps]

So why are we still using them when they're now all at least 45 years old?
If it's so easy, why have they not been superceded by a new shunter?

Ermmmmm because there is no need. Because the job at hand is simple. You need a reliable loco with lots of torque.

 

[asylumxl]

Frequently, on the ECML and GWML

ECML yes.

GWML. What about the Devon/Cornwall branch, past Berkshire?

 

[SouthEastern-465]

My opinion is that the "Networker" family and SR 4xx slammers are the best trains ever built!

 

[Aictos]

All ex BR stock is great minus the Pacers though, still have to admit the 377/5s on Thameslink are a big improvement on the 319s as I found out when I travelled on a all stations from Brighton to Bedford!

 

[TDK]

EMU - SR 400 slammers
DMU- Class 168
Steam - Black 5
Diesel Loco - Deltic

Best ever design - HST + MK3's or London Underground Tube trains

 

[CCF23]

The Metropolitan Line's A Stock has to be a contender. Next year they will enter their 50th year of service on one of the busiest railway system in the world.

 

[Oswyntail]

There is too much here stuck in the present day. To be fair to all designs, you have to assess them in their heyday. And the assessment must include functionality, fitness for purpose, and, equally important, aesthetics. In the world of steam I find it hard to separate most of the Stanier locos, but will agree with anyone who suggests the Black 5. In more modern times there is really no contender for the HST, which combined all three elements at the highest level.*
It is wrong to point out that there have been improvements in provision, and use that as justification for supporting modern types. Of course there have been improvements - one would hope
* I am also tempted by the Metro-Cammel classic DMU of the Class 101 type.

 

[poshbakerloo]

I love the class 175 and 180 DMUs!

 

[yorksrob]

For comfort, ambience sound effects etc - It's got to be a Hastings DEMU.

 

[bronzeonion]

DMU: class 165, great for the marylebone-high wycombe stoppers.

EMU: class 321, great at doing what it does

Diesel loco: post BR, class 67. fast reliable can be used on freight and on high speed passenger runs
BR, class 37. Sound, Clag, build quality

 

[Vulcan]

Another vote here for the HST.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
But if your talking 2' gauge, Ruston 20DL is the best I've come across. Especially ours. Starts for me every time, air braked, easy to drive, good horn, very controlable, will pull anything.

 

[starrymarkb]

I'd say the 158/159 as the best BR DMU - in good condition they are very suited to the thinner intercity routes. They ride extremely well (better then a Mk3) especially over rough track, and most of their issues is just down to not being given any TLC (cough CT cough)

 

[Daimler]

I'd say the 158/159 as the best BR DMU - in good condition they are very suited to the thinner intercity routes. They ride extremely well (better then a Mk3) especially over rough track, and most of their issues is just down to not being given any TLC (cough CT cough)

Probably the only trains, however, where the legroom is so poor that on some seats you cannot avoid knocking your knees against the seat in front of you when sit down.

 

[87015]

Probably the only trains, however, where the legroom is so poor that on some seats you cannot avoid knocking your knees against the seat in front of you when sat down.

Or in any vaguely warm weather as the aircon has never worked reliably, regardless of operator.

 

[starrymarkb]

Unless its a 159, where I've been in need of a jumper because it was working too well

 

[poshbakerloo]

Anything MK3 based has been pretty good!

323s are very good aswell!

 

[317666]

Class 317s. Comfortable, fast, reliable.

 

[Drsatan]

Ok, this is gonna be a tough one.

For the most successful class ever, definitely the 43s (or 253/254 if you still think of them as DEMUs). They were built as a stop gap measure, and, to the best of my knowledge, were Britain's first 125mph trains and the first trains in Europe to attain 125mph in normal service. Passengers didn't have to pay a premium for the service, as was the case in much of Europe (e.g. the Le Capitole service from Paris Austerlitz-Toulouse), and the "Javelin" domestic services on HS1! Moreover, they're popular with enthusiasts because of that distinctive screaming sound produced by their Paxman Valentas. That used to scare the hell out of me when I was a kid! Even with MTU engines fitted the 43s are still as good as ever. Finally, the Mk3 HST trailers are still damn comfortable. It's unfortunate that FGW decided to put capacity before passenger comfort and install lots of airline seats; I preferred FGW's pre-refurb examples just because the seats lined up with the windows and were of the original "lounge" type.

Best DMU is probably the 180. They're fast, good looking, have comfortable seats and a proper buffet. If DafT had any sense they'd have been deployed on Cardiff-Pompey services instead of going to Hull Trains & Grand Central. This is because 3-car 158s are in my opinion, unsuitable for the route since they become overcrowded easily, are way too noisy for three hour journeys to Cardiff and only have a trolley (which from my personal experiences is never there)

Best EMU: either the 442 or the 421. 442s have better seats and ride quality than 444s, and the air conditioning doesn't freeze oneself to the seat. Moreover, they were the last trains built in the UK to have first class compartments, which are a godsend for those who want privacy. The 421s come second since despite being similar to the 423s, are far more handsome and were the most reliable third-rail units.

 

[will1337]

I'd say the Class 91 + MK4 combo, these are past 15 years getting on 20 old now and still IMO offer the greatest comfort from a passenger perspective. Sensibly designed interiors and the opportunity for flexible train lengths and the locos could be used for freight although this wasn't used much.

I think it's a shame that design wasn't able to progress and that the tilting capabilities weren't used and neither was also the potential for 140mph running. If rail were more of a political priority at the time, electrification and major upgrades could have given us a much faster rail network instead of us only now considering HSR and the Pendos being a novelty. The ECML was a project not ambitious enough in it's scope.

 

[Vulcan]

...and the locos could be used for freight although this wasn't used much.

Just a quick question, did 91s ever haul anything apart from their Mk4s, or the first few with Mk3s and a power car, or the Doncaster works test train?

 

[90019]

Just a quick question, did 91s ever haul anything apart from their Mk4s, or the first few with Mk3s and a power car, or the Doncaster works test train?

Yes, I've seen footage somewhere of one hauling Mk1s.
I'm sure someone will post a link soon enough.

 

[johnb]

I'd say the Class 91 + MK4 combo, these are past 15 years getting on 20 old now and still IMO offer the greatest comfort from a passenger perspective. Sensibly designed interiors and the opportunity for flexible train lengths and the locos could be used for freight although this wasn't used much.

Wasn't used *ever*, AIUI. Even if the photo of 91+mk1 gets brought out, that still wasn't a regular working.

Similarly, the length of 225 sets has never actually been varied in service - had the 225s been delivered as EMUs, the only point where the loss of flexibility would've made any difference at all would've been in the first few months when the 91s ran with mk3s.

I think it's a shame that design wasn't able to progress and that the tilting capabilities weren't used and neither was also the potential for 140mph running. If rail were more of a political priority at the time, electrification and major upgrades could have given us a much faster rail network instead of us only now considering HSR and the Pendos being a novelty. The ECML was a project not ambitious enough in it's scope.

Tilt wouldn't have been any use on the ECML, and 225km/h running was cancelled because BR's trials determined that it wasn't safe with lineside signalling.

 

[87015]

Wasn't used *ever*, AIUI. Even if the photo of 91+mk1 gets brought out, that still wasn't a regular working.

Worked a good number of charter trains with Mk1 stock, plus Peterboro commuter workings with Mk2 stock lasted into the early 90s.

 

[poshbakerloo]

The MK2 coaches where pretty ground breaking. The MK2 E and F which had AC where very successful.

 

[johnb]

Sorry, the gremlins stole the word "freight" from my post above.

Didn't realise there were 91+mk2 workings out of Pboro, certainly not as late as the early 1990s - got a link/photo/etc?

 

[Drimnagh Road]

Hmmm, I'll nominate 37s, still going strong (well not the DBS ones) after 45 years.

While we're at it, I'd nominate. the 175s / 180s or in general anything built by Alstom post privatisation to be the worst trains ever. I'll get my coat.