What triggers the please stand clear of the train message?

[infobleep]

On the last several months or more South West Trains have introduced an announcement that says "Please stand clear of the train. This train is ready to leave".

Does anyone know what triggers it? Also do South West Trains monitor the effectiveness of these messages?

I ask these questions because this morning, the 7.45 Guildford to Waterloo service arrived 7.44. 44 seconds. Once the passengers from the train had alighted and just as the passengers on the platform stated boarding, we were all told to stand clear. No guard in his right mind is going to make a platform of passengers not board the train, especially as it arrived within the 30 seconds of the time they advertise the doors will close. The working timetable might state the train is due in that time anyway. It's not the first time I've seen this happen either.

On a related note, last night there were two trains arriving and departing from the same island. In this case both stand clear messages were announced after the trains had left the platform. In the first case the message got delayed because they were announcing the other train before it departed. The second was just because the train left slightly early. The first case is fairly common when two trains arrive and depart within a minute of one another.

All this makes me wonder if the message is worth broadcasting at all. May be it works the other 98‰ of the time. However I do think you can have to many messages, which people then just ignore, perhaps along with the really important ones.

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[badassunicorn]

They've had this for yonks at my mums local station of Hackbridge on Southern area, there's a little trumpet sound then it says like you say, ready to leave, stand clear, but as you say, usually once the train has already left

 

[Urban Gateline]

Nothing like that on the LM network, we have an automated announcement which we can prompt but it won't automatically trigger.

"Please stand clear of the train at Platform "x", this train is ready to leave."

Where "x" is an option on the LICC where we can enter the platform number.

It can be useful to rush people along, especially if you are in the announcers office and can view the CCTV of the platform and prompt the announcement at the same time, this way it comes out at the right moment, not like what you guys posted above!

 

[tsr]

It can make people a bit panicky when it comes on way too early - for example, at East Croydon, where people are still pouring out of the train, and dozens are still waiting to board. This means passengers are more likely to push their way on without much thought for others, and indeed I've seen people come close to getting injured by doing so. And I must say I think this is the fault of the railways - most members of the public will take that sort of thing at face value and won't consider that the system could have an error leading to an offset of 30 seconds or so.

And for those people who think that they can walk up to a train when the doors are locked & it's pulling out, and still try to board, I don't think it will ever really make much difference.

The one advantage this type of announcement does have is in persuading people that a crush-loaded train really must leave now and that there is no point in trying to cram onboard. If Control are aware / information systems staff are on the ball, they may also add a note to the CIS to state that the train is full and standing, which can also deter people even before the service arrives (you just have to hope it's accurate, again, though!).

 

[hassaanhc]

It can make people a bit panicky when it comes on way too early - for example, at East Croydon, where people are still pouring out of the train, and dozens are still waiting to board. This means passengers are more likely to push their way on without much thought for others, and indeed I've seen people come close to getting injured by doing so. And I must say I think this is the fault of the railways - most members of the public will take that sort of thing at face value and won't consider that the system could have an error leading to an offset of 30 seconds or so.

I've never heard that on SWT, but the guard's whistle probably has the same effect! Having said that, at least once a week someone posts on the SWT Twitter feed about the guard blowing the whistle as soon as the doors have opened and people are still getting off, so boarding people have to rush on quickly or are left behind.

 

[Lockwood]

I thought it was time based on Southern.
I've heard it at Emsworth as the train (which was shown as 1 minute late) was coming to a stand at the platform.

 

[Chrisgr31]

Most Southern stations have it, and I also think it is timed based, as it goes off at Crowborough which has no platform staff.

I guess it also helps the guard to know when to close the doors etc. However not sure of it at very busy stations like East Croydon as the reality is people are going to jkeep trying to get on until the doors close.

 

[tsr]

I guess it also helps the guard to know when to close the doors etc.

I've never seen a guard use such announcements as timers, though I could possibly be wrong, as I guess some might - but they should check the signal is off and then ideally will look at their watch or a clock for the actual time.

I don't know if the announcements are linked to any output from the signalling system or the station clocks themselves, but I certainly wouldn't like to rely on their accuracy. I suspect they are based on the time from which the track circuit was occupied, and then counting down the scheduled dwell time for the train. That said, I have never heard one when a signal has not been cleared.

 

[louis97]

The message is played generally 30 seconds before the services booked departure time, nothing to do with signalling - although it would work better if it was. This will be why it can sometimes be a bit out, as if the train is slightly delayed between passing the signal before the platform and stopping perhaps due to a temporary speed restriction, it might only be just stopping as the announcement plays. I believe when a service is late it takes into account the lateness and works out a new departure time to play the announcement 30 seconds before, and then when this is over estimated it may go off as the train is leaving.

At East Croydon there is no announcements its just purely the message on the screen.

 

[swt_passenger]

On the last several months or more South West Trains have introduced an announcement that says "Please stand clear of the train. This train is ready to leave".

It's been available for some years at many busier SWT stations, e.g. Southampton Central, I think the announcement is triggered by local intervention adding it on top of the normal sequence at busy times, and is therefore only ever to be heard at a station where someone has local control of the normal PIS.

 

[sarahj]

I've had more than one when waiting on a red. A bit anoying that she is muttering away while a signal is red and a level crossing ahead is open.

You can see them in action with timings better at somewhere like Seaford. You normally have about a 10 min turnaround. I blow my whistle at T-35 and the auto thing comes up at T-30.

Some stations just play the tone.

 

[infobleep]

This evening I got off a slightly delayed train into Guildford. Cue announcement. Not sure if it was for the train opposite platform of the island or the train I was on. Only remember heating it once. Regardless a commuter off my train still tried the other train doors just in case. Clearly if the train is on time they can get an unofficial connection up the Cobham line.

Now whether they heard the announcement of simply ignored it, it's a great example of a message not working.

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[jimbo99]

It can make people a bit panicky when it comes on way too early - for example, at East Croydon, where people are still pouring out of the train, and dozens are still waiting to board. This means passengers are more likely to push their way on without much thought for others, and indeed I've seen people come close to getting injured by doing so.

It's funny, when I started reading this thread I thought I'd post about East Croydon and you beat me to it.

I find it infuriating. With automated announcements people can put it down to IT issues. But I have seen platform staff (?dispatchers) blowing their whistles endlessly whilst pax are still disembarking and there is no chance to board - quite intimidating. I've also seen passengers waiting on the platform challenge staff about it and arguments ensuing.

Another issue is that the service details disappear from the screens. So passengers who want to do a double check as they board hesitate because they don't know if they are boarding the correct train. This causes further delay as they ask other pax/other staff.

Anyway, the result is that pax think they are little more than cattle to be herded and there is contempt on both sides. Some of them learn that whilst so many people are trying to get on the doors won't close anyway - and they just learn to ignore the announcements. A bit like the crying wolf thing.

As for injury, I'm afraid it has happened at East Croydon. An elderly lady I know was waiting to board a London bound FCC at platform 2. The dispatcher started blowing his whistle pretty much as soon as the train arrived and she felt she had to hurry for fear of the doors closing on her. The train had stopped such that she was between doors. As she began to climb on board, whistle still going, her foot went down the gap. (It was on the curve where the train is quite high.) I don't know how long the train was delayed for, but an ambulance was called and she ended up in hospital. A year later she still can't walk properly.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

I can't see the point in that automated message, apart from any Mk2s and Mk3s in use, all stock has "doors closing " bleepers which serves the same purpose really

 

[infobleep]

A last minute platform change at Woking last year cause a passenger to have ago at the platform dispatcher, saying they should give passengers surfactant time to board and he was standing between the door so it couldn't close.

I often hear whistles blowing as passengers start to board. Not sure what the different numbers of short whistles mean though.

I don't think they all mean this train is leaving, stand clear. I think some are to tell other train staff, such as the driver, what is going on. I don't actually know this for certain, just an educated guess.

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[Urban Gateline]

I often hear whistles blowing as passengers start to board. Not sure what the different numbers of short whistles mean though.

I don't think they all mean this train is leaving, stand clear. I think some are to tell other train staff, such as the driver, what is going on. I don't actually know this for certain, just an educated guess.

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Most of them are to get passengers to hurry up with boarding and a warning that departure is imminent!

 

[infobleep]

Most of them are to get passengers to hurry up with boarding and a warning that departure is imminent!

May be that is so but they have different numbers of blasts. From 1 to ta least 3. They never start with any more than 1 though.

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[3141]

....If Control are aware / information systems staff are on the ball, they may also add a note to the CIS to state that the train is full and standing, which can also deter people even before the service arrives (you just have to hope it's accurate, again, though!).

I think "Full and standing" is one of those phrases that get widely used but have no clear meaning. "Full" - really, absolutely, no room anywhere even for just one more passenger??? Almost certainly there's plenty of room, if people would move down inside and not block the vestibules. If it's anything like full of course there'll be people standing. "Standing" - well that's common enough, and between some stations everyone knows they are likely to have to stand.

It's also likely that while some coaches may be crowded, there are others where there should be no difficulty getting on.

Will the appearance of this phrase in the information screens deter passengers from trying to board the train? It might do, if you are travelling from East Croydon to Victoria, and you know there will be another train to take you there in less than five minutes. But if the service to your destination runs every half an hour or less frequently you're going to try to get on this one.

Living in a place that has a 30-minute service during the peak hours, I'm not going to be put off boarding by "full and standing". It just tells me there are a lot of other people on board already.

 

[infobleep]

Talking of full and standard. When a train is unusually overcrowded the guard would apologise. When a train was just as overcrowded but that was the case 9 out of 10 times it ran, the guard would remain silent on the overcrowding. Surely a regularly overcrowded train is worse than a one off.

I use to struggle to squeeze on the 8.39 from Clapham Junction to Harrow. It was only 20 minutes of squashing until most people alighted. Then 15 minutes if space. Next train was over am hour away or I'd I have to change as Wilsden Junction. To do that I'd have to rush off to try and catch the next train, which left from the other side of Clapham Junction literally. That's 17 platforms away during peak rush hour. That train would also be packed. Needless to say I made a strong effort to get on the Southern train.

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[talldave]

Getting back to the original thread topic, I find that announcements that go out at the wrong time are more pointless and annoying that no announcements at all.

"stand clear" of a train that's already gone and "the train now standing at platform 4..." when there's nothing there - are two of the most obvious pointless ones.

It just highlights the fact that whatever system is being used to trigger them doesn't work.

Also irritating is the need to prefix the scheduled departure time of train with "the delayed". In my book, if it's a minute late, it's delayed - but the "the delayed" prefix only seems to apply to really bad delays. The fact you're still standing on a platform, cold, fed-up and late are good indications that the train is delayed; rubbing it in does nothing to improve the customer relationship.

On days of severe disruption, it would be less intrusive to use a "the on time" prefix for the few trains that are .

 

[infobleep]

Tonight as passengers were still alighting from the delayed 18.08 Guildford to Portsmouth, the announcement to please stand clear was made. Many alighting passengers tickets wouldn't be valid beyond Guildford, so I doubt they would want to head south and nor would South West Trains want them heading south. Then after the doors were closed and all the passengers had boarded, the please stand clear announcement was made a second time.

I assume two announcements can be made for a train, if they are manually triggered. The train on platform 3 had left about 8-10 minutes before so I don't think any of the announcements were for that one.

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[The Decapod]

What triggers the please stand clear of the train message?

Apparently the departing train triggers the recorded message to play 30 seconds after that train has left the station, and again after another 30 seconds.

 

[jon0844]

It's funny, when I started reading this thread I thought I'd post about East Croydon and you beat me to it.

I find it infuriating. With automated announcements people can put it down to IT issues. But I have seen platform staff (?dispatchers) blowing their whistles endlessly whilst pax are still disembarking and there is no chance to board - quite intimidating. I've also seen passengers waiting on the platform challenge staff about it and arguments ensuing.

I've noticed this, funnily enough, at East Croydon, but also East Croydon and Gatwick. The whistle is lightly blown almost immediately as people are still getting off, and despite this whistling the train still gets to stay for 45 seconds or so - so it seems to be a policy to just make people fear the doors will shut any second and hurry up.

What's it going to be like when the core is at full capacity?

If it leads to more accidents, I wonder if being 'pressured' by platform staff would ever feature as a major contributory factor or even the sole cause?

 

[causton]

Will the appearance of this phrase in the information screens deter passengers from trying to board the train? It might do, if you are travelling from East Croydon to Victoria, and you know there will be another train to take you there in less than five minutes. But if the service to your destination runs every half an hour or less frequently you're going to try to get on this one. .

Good, that's probably entirely what it's there for. It's "Do you REALLY have to board this train?"

If you have another connection to make at another station, yes.
If your station is one served infrequently, then yes.
If you are looking for a train to catch "to London" and could go to either London Bridge or Victoria, and the London Bridge train shows it, you probably could do with taking the Victoria one.
If you don't like crowds, or want a seat, then you could do with taking a different train.

For many parts of the railway, you have a choice of train, this is about making as many people who would have gone "why not catch this train, it's the same as any others" to "perhaps I'll wait for the one 10 minutes later" which could mean someone else going to a stop less frequently served on that train can actually board!

 

[Urban Gateline]

Good, that's probably entirely what it's there for. It's "Do you REALLY have to board this train?"

If you have another connection to make at another station, yes.
If your station is one served infrequently, then yes.
If you are looking for a train to catch "to London" and could go to either London Bridge or Victoria, and the London Bridge train shows it, you probably could do with taking the Victoria one.
If you don't like crowds, or want a seat, then you could do with taking a different train.

For many parts of the railway, you have a choice of train, this is about making as many people who would have gone "why not catch this train, it's the same as any others" to "perhaps I'll wait for the one 10 minutes later" which could mean someone else going to a stop less frequently served on that train can actually board!

Exactly! As Infobleep mentioned above, the 08:39 Southern service from Clapham Junction to Milton Keynes is a nightmare for anyone actually wanting to travel to Wembley and beyond as most of the passengers on there only want Shepherds bush, very inconsiderate of them to crowd up the train when they could use LOROL instead!

 

[infobleep]

Exactly! As Infobleep mentioned above, the 08:39 Southern service from Clapham Junction to Milton Keynes is a nightmare for anyone actually wanting to travel to Wembley and beyond as most of the passengers on there only want Shepherds bush, very inconsiderate of them to crowd up the train when they could use LOROL instead!

But I don't see the rail companies doing anything about it except adding additional services and coaches, which can help a lot. However they never told passengers on platform 16 that the London Overground ran trains.

In the case of the additional train to Harrow around 8.12, that just filled up and I'm not sure the 8.39 was any less busy. The additional coaches should I hope relieve the problem. Not that I travel that way any more, fortunately.

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[infobleep]

This morning I had a new various on please stand clear. It started playing as the train was pulling in. Someone should have told the driver to pull straight out again, given everyone was suppose to be standing clear. Lol.

It was the 11.10 from Guildford to Gatwick. It had been running a minute late and was the shown on time, even at 11.10 when a delayed Portsmouth Harbour service was in the platform it was on time! That was running late due to someone being hit in the Woking area. I'm sorry for all those involved and people who knew anyone involved. Awful things

The 11.10 to Gatwick eventuality arrived at 11.13, by which point the CIS had been updated to reflect the new arrival time, and as it pull up, the announcement was played about standing clear.

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[infobleep]

This morning I had a new various on please stand clear. It started playing as the train was pulling in. Someone should have told the driver to pull straight out again, given everyone was suppose to be standing clear. Lol.

It was the 11.10 from Guildford to Gatwick. It had been running a minute late and was the shown on time, even at 11.10 when a delayed Portsmouth Harbour service was in the platform it was on time! That was running late due to someone being hit in the Woking area. I'm sorry for all those involved and people who knew anyone involved. Awful things

The 11.10 to Gatwick eventuality arrived at 11.13, by which point the CIS had been updated to reflect the new arrival time, and as it pull up, the announcement was played about standing clear.

Train eventually arrived into Gatwick 3 minutes. Always surprised they can't make up the lost time at Redhill but I guess the driver has to switch ends. If it was passengers that have to switch ends they would make it up.

In keeping with trains not showing as delayed, the FCC train to Brighton was 2 minutes late leaving and the CIS was only updated 2 minutes after the train should have left.

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