What sort of train for a painting

[Aerodynamik]

Hi all

As an artist I am about to start a painting of A.V.Roe's (aka Avro) first flight at Lea Marshes, Walthamstow, London. This was in 1909 and he set up in two workshops on the marshes in railway arches by the canal. These arches are at 51.568153, -0.050944 which you can put into Google maps.

My hope is to paint a train above the workshops but I want it to be authentic.

Would anyone be able to advice or even provide a picture of what sort of train would have used this line in this year. I'm afraid I don't even know what line this would have been.

Many thanks

 

[EM2]

That's the line between Chingford and London Liverpool Street. In 1909, the Great Eastern Railway would have operated (and owned) the line. The most likely loco at that time would be the M25 class, which was a 2-4-2 tank engine, or the R24 0-6-0 tank engine.

 

[PeterC]

deleted

 

[delt1c]

Dont forget to get the coaches correct as well

 

[30907]

Dont forget to get the coaches correct as well

The Chingford line was part of the "Jazz Train" network, so called because first class had a yellow line, and second a blue one, at roof level. The coaches were IIRC 4-wheelers in sets of 15-16.

 

[Aerodynamik]

Thanks for your prompt replies guys. I've found some pictures of the engine which appear to show them as dark blue which I assume is correct. I must confess that I know even less about carriages. Is there a particular 'model' that would have been used and what would the main colour of these have been?

 

[Taunton]

By coincidence we have a family member I take weekly to the Lee Valley Ice Centre, and while the skating is in progress if not doing so myself I sometimes walk up alongside the canal to where the blue plaque is to Avro, and under the viaduct. I've tried to spot which arch was his.

As well as the Chingford trains, Clapton Junction and the curve round to Coppermill Junction is directly overhead and main line GER trains from Liverpool Street to Cambridge etc would all pass this way. So not just suburban trains, but any GER main line locos, in their striking blue livery, would suit. This may help you for colours. The artist is Hamilton Ellis, longstanding railway buff and author who would have got all the details of loco and carriages right. I'm sorry, you cannot use that exact locomotive type in the foreground as the first was built in 1911 (an S69, later LNER B12), but the livery of loco and coaches will be right.

https://artuk.org/discover/artworks...ng-train-out-of-liverpool-street-station-9532

It's predecessor, a "Claud Hamilton", would be fine. Many images around.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GER_Classes_S46,_D56_and_H88

The Jazz service, with it's different coloured rooflines, was not introduced until 1920, so is not appropriate for a 1909 scene.

The experts are the Great Eastern Railway Society, their website has pictures of a range of rolling stock that would be relevant, plus if you contact them they would be surely only too pleased to advise on the correct shade of blue paint, and all the associated details, to save you from the know-alls who look at the painting and say "ah, that locomotive wasn't built until three years later"! Bogie carriages would not be around at this time on local trains, only expresses. This article covers the blue locomotive colour used. Contrary to some notes elsewhere, it was a darker "Oxford" blue, even though the GER was the principal line to Cambridge!

https://www.gersociety.org.uk/index.php/locomotives/information-leaflets/ger-loco-blue

https://www.gersociety.org.uk/index.php/information/the-ger

Blue was a particularly difficult colour to apply at the time, as the available pigments tended to fade considerably, an issue the paint industry did not crack until the early 1960s, when blue appeared as the British Rail standard rolling stock colour. A few, but not many, of the older railway companied had used it, but it was known for fading and losing its lustre.

 

[Aerodynamik]

Thanks Taunton...that's really useful

 

[Cowley]

That GER blue livery was lovely.

 

[AJM580]

This may help - a Claud Hamilton in original blue at the NRM in York

 

[Cowley]

Beautiful.

 

[Busaholic]

That GER blue livery was lovely.

Absolutely wonderful livery.