What should replace Voyagers on XC?

[JonathanH]

Well what would you replace the double Voyager and HST diagrans with?

Do they suffer from overcrowding in the same way that 4-220 does? 2 x 4-220 is a lot shorter than 2 x 5-802.

 

[hexagon789]

Do they suffer from overcrowding in the same way that 4-220 does? 2 x 4-220 is a lot shorter than 2 x 5-802.

The point would be that many XC services are busy or overcrowded. An 80x has more seats than a 4-car or even 5-car Voyager, so that's a capacity increase, but they have less seats than a double Voyager or HST.

Therefore, surely those services you'd run as double 80x?

 

[JonathanH]

The point would be that many XC services are busy or overcrowded. An 80x has more seats than a 4-car or even 5-car Voyager, so that's a capacity increase, but they have less seats than a double Voyager or HST.

Therefore, surely those services you'd run as double 80x?

If Cross Country did go to uniform 5-80x, maybe you would run the handful of 8-220 / HST workings as 5-80x and take the view that some people would move to the other services. 6 or 7 coach and you would not be able to double up anyway.

Acquiring 60 80x units would be a big step.

 

[hexagon789]

Acquiring 60 80x units would be a big step.

Oh dear, I was thinking about ordering at least 68 sets!

 

[JonathanH]

Oh dear, I was thinking about ordering at least 68 sets!

On a Wednesday, there are 53 Voyager diagrams of which two are paired up (1S33/1V64 and 1V46/1S53) and two HST diagrams. I make that 53 separate workings. 60 would be enough for that.

I think there are 61 trainsets in the current fleet (34 4-220, 4 4-221, 18 5-221, 5 HSTs).

Question then is whether you could extend all of the Bristol terminators to Exeter and the Reading terminators to Southampton which might push the number of diagrams up and bring Cardiff to Nottingham into the longer-distance fleet.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If we weren't doubling up, I reckon 7x26m would be as future proof as it's likely to need. 6x26m might be gettable-away-with if there's an option to extend that is taken up as soon as the fleet is delivered.

 

[hexagon789]

On a Wednesday, there are 53 Voyager diagrams of which two are paired up (1S33/1V64 and 1V46/1S53) and two HST diagrams. I make that 53 separate workings. 60 would be enough for that.

I think there are 61 trainsets in the current fleet (34 4-220, 4 4-221, 18 5-221, 5 HSTs).

Question then is whether you could extend all of the Bristol terminators to Exeter and the Reading terminators to Southampton which might push the number of diagrams up and bring Cardiff to Nottingham into the longer-distance fleet.

I made it 63, counting the HSTs as two to get 68, maybe a bit out on that.

What sort of frequency would that give, extending those workings?

 

[swt_passenger]

It all gets hypothetical if you ask about extending all Readings to Southampton. That would require only one unit per day, but also £millions of new infrastructure or there’d be no paths.

 

[The Ham]

The future of XC depends on what services or will be running in the future.

Some have suggested a South Coast to North Wales service could be a useful service post HS2. In that each bit of the route wouldn't see much competition from other services, even though it would see some key sections which were.

 

[Rich McLean]

The 20 ex ICWC Voyagers would effectively replace the HSTs, and double up 10 more diagrams through the core. If more capacity is still required, then 222s will be available, which could be reformed into 7 car sets for NESW services, which are for the most part self contained.

The most likely scenario is those 20 Voyagers, with possibly the HSTs hanging on for a bit longer after Power Door conversions.