What should passengers do if the ticket machine at their origin station has failed?

[Haywain]

In this day and age, I would not board if there is a defective machine unless I had cash.

Best buy a ticket before you go to the station then.

 

[miklcct]

Best buy a ticket before you go to the station then.

How do you buy a ticket if an e-ticket isn't available in this case?

 

[AdamWW]

That’s true to a point. From memory of a conversation with someone at Northern a few years ago, TVMs send a message back periodically (no idea what the frequency is) basically saying “hello I’m working”, so if that signal isn’t received the host system knows the machine has failed.

However, that won’t work for an unresponsive machine, as others have said.

Well it's good to know that they're working via a "failsafe" system like that. I wouldn't even want to assume that they weren't relying on them sending a message saying "I'm broken", daft as that would be.

But - indeed - there are many ways a machine could become unusable yet not be "aware".

There was also the occasion the ticket machine only issued the outward ticket....again I was fortunate the ticket office open.

They used to be quite good at taking your money and failing to issue anything at all.
Particularly fun with TOD from a different operator who won't give you the money back because they can see that the tickets were issued, and TfW saying that they can't give you a refund because they didn't sell you the tickets.
Well I only made that mistake once.

 

[NorwichRailFan]

I do feel privilaged to live in Norfolk where you can still just buy on the train at all stations apart from Norwich if no ticket machine is available. Here at least you can just get on the train and buy from the guard. However, in other places(eg, around London), where you have to get on the train with a valid ticket, I think your only option would be to buy a mobile ticket, however this may not be convenient for lots of people so I don't know. To be honest I think that lots of the system around london is purely designed to catch people out.

 

[paul1609]

How do you buy a ticket if an e-ticket isn't available in this case?

On Southern/ GTR/ Southeastern just buy a ticket for TOD, the guard or RPI will issue it for you.

 

[Haywain]

On Southern/ GTR/ Southeastern just buy a ticket for TOD, the guard or RPI will issue it for you.

That is very poor advice because many GTR services don't have guards.

 

[matt_world2004]

Press the help point at the station if the machine isn't working so control have a record?

 

[paul1609]

That is very poor advice because many GTR services don't have guards.

Who is going to check your ticket if it's an doo service? The excess fares to pay office or the barrier staff at most stations will either issue it for you or point you to the booking office if open.

 

[johncrossley]

In this day and age, I would not board if there is a defective machine unless I had cash.

You are likely to be treated as guilty until you prove yourself innocent.

I won't travel now unless e-ticket, contactless or smartcard is available for the journey for that reason. Luckily almost all journeys have at least one of those options.

Ticket machines are not guaranteed to work and there is no guarantee that there won't be a queue.

 

[bspahh]

If you buy tickets with an app and get an error message, how long do you wait to see if it really went through?

A couple of weeks ago, I tried to buy some tickets with the Greater Anglia app 10 minutes before the train left. I got an error message from the app about the payment failing. I put my phone away and bought tickets from a machine.

When I was on the train, I then realised that the transaction from the app had gone through. The email with the PDF tickets was sent a minute before the time on the ticket from the ticket machine.

I got a full refund for the tickets from the app, so I wasn't out of pocket, but just had to spend 20 minutes sorting it out.

 

[danm14]

I do feel privilaged to live in Norfolk where you can still just buy on the train at all stations apart from Norwich if no ticket machine is available. Here at least you can just get on the train and buy from the guard. However, in other places(eg, around London), where you have to get on the train with a valid ticket, I think your only option would be to buy a mobile ticket, however this may not be convenient for lots of people so I don't know. To be honest I think that lots of the system around london is purely designed to catch people out.

The system is the same across the entirety of Great Britain.

If there is a facility to purchase your ticket at the station you board at, and it accepts the payment method you wish to use, and you are not prevented from using it because you have a disability (as defined in the Equality Act 2010), you must use it. It is a criminal offence to board the train without a ticket in these circumstances. The fact that you might be sold a ticket on board without issue 99% of the time is irrelevant - you are still breaking the law, could be prosecuted next time, and you would have absolutely no defence.

If there is no facility to purchase your ticket at the station you board at, or there is a facility provided but it does not accept your chosen payment method, or there is a facility provided but you are unable to use it because you have a disability, you are legally entitled to board the train without a ticket and purchase one at the first available opportunity - be that from the guard, at a station where you're changing trains (if you can do so without delaying your journey), or at your destination.

There is never a requirement to purchase a mobile ticket - your mobile phone or laptop is never classed as a facility to purchase a ticket, you are free to use it, but you are never required to.

 

[mikeg]

I have a further question:

What to do if the new journey planner TVMs at Selby are functional but the last journey opportunity involves grand central and thus shows no journeys as valid due to their abuse of the compulsory reservations flag? Would Northern issue a penalty fare for a passenger wanting an SVR to Thirsk at this time?

 

[Watershed]

The system is the same across the entirety of Great Britain.

If there is a facility to purchase your ticket at the station you board at, and it accepts the payment method you wish to use, and you are not prevented from using it because you have a disability (as defined in the Equality Act 2010), you must use it. It is a criminal offence to board the train without a ticket in these circumstances. The fact that you might be sold a ticket on board without issue 99% of the time is irrelevant - you are still breaking the law, could be prosecuted next time, and you would have absolutely no defence.

If there is no facility to purchase your ticket at the station you board at, or there is a facility provided but it does not accept your chosen payment method, or there is a facility provided but you are unable to use it because you have a disability, you are legally entitled to board the train without a ticket and purchase one at the first available opportunity - be that from the guard, at a station where you're changing trains (if you can do so without delaying your journey), or at your destination.

There is never a requirement to purchase a mobile ticket - your mobile phone or laptop is never classed as a facility to purchase a ticket, you are free to use it, but you are never required to.

Greater Anglia continue to permit buying tickets onboard without penalty, for most of the non-major stations served by class 755s. They still officially call these Paytrain stations. Buying onboard in such circumstances doesn't constitute an offence.

I have a further question:

What to do if the new journey planner TVMs at Selby are functional but the last journey opportunity involves grand central and thus shows no journeys as valid due to their abuse of the compulsory reservations flag? Would Northern issue a penalty fare for a passenger wanting an SVR to Thirsk at this time?

I think it's a slightly tricky one. You could presumably still buy a ticket to wherever you were going to change to the Grand Central service (York?). Whether the fact that the TVM is unwilling to sell you a ticket all the way to your intended destination means it doesn't constitute an opportunity to pay is unclear.

 

[jumble]

Greater Anglia continue to permit buying tickets onboard without penalty, for most of the non-major stations served by class 755s. They still officially call these Paytrain stations. Buying onboard in such circumstances doesn't constitute an offence.

This is true but NRE are not aware of this
We wanted a Wherry Ranger at Acle and the TVM did not sell them
We used the speaker on the platform to ask NRE and were told to buy a single to Yarmouth and exchange it there ( without any consideration as to what would happen if the booking office was closed)
I ignored this and bought on board
When I got to Great Yarmouth I asked the booking office why and he rolled his eyes
Perhaps @danm14 asked them as well

 

[Llandudno]

Yeah when I've had issues with a ticket office queue taking forever (over 10 mins!) I've gone up to the guard and asked them (I've also done this when delays have caused me to take an invalid train) and every single time they've been great and let me travel/sold me a ticket if required

Absolutely, approach the guard with a smile and a friendly demeanour and I guarantee that that this will work 99% of the time, along with trying to get on another operator’s service if your operator specific ticket is for a cancelled train.

Most train guards are fantastic!

 

[mangyiscute]

I think it's a slightly tricky one. You could presumably still buy a ticket to wherever you were going to change to the Grand Central service (York?). Whether the fact that the TVM is unwilling to sell you a ticket all the way to your intended destination means it doesn't constitute an opportunity to pay is unclear.

I imagine this is similar to if you want to buy a ranger/rover and the only option is a ticket machine that doesn't offer these - are you allowed to board the train without a valid ticket? I'm still not sure what the answer is tbh, cause most companies say that you can buy on board, but you have to have a valid ticket to board the train so you'd have to buy a ticket for at least until the next station

 

[MotCO]

I imagine this is similar to if you want to buy a ranger/rover and the only option is a ticket machine that doesn't offer these - are you allowed to board the train without a valid ticket? I'm still not sure what the answer is tbh, cause most companies say that you can buy on board, but you have to have a valid ticket to board the train so you'd have to buy a ticket for at least until the next station

Is the solution to buy a ticket to your next interchange, and then can you buy a ticket for the whole journey (if it is cheaper than the two separate tickets) and claim a refund on the ticket you have used? Or can you never get a refund on a used ticket?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Is the solution to buy a ticket to your next interchange, and then can you buy a ticket for the whole journey (if it is cheaper than the two separate tickets) and claim a refund on the ticket you have used? Or can you never get a refund on a used ticket?

I've certainly had that done by both LM (as was) and by SWR for paper tickets, they "non issue" it even if used and issue a replacement. It relies on the booking office being operated by the same TOC (so no good at e.g. Manchester Piccadilly if you came from a Northern origin) nor probably any good for an e-ticket.

It can be a useful option in some cases but it's not strictly speaking an entitlement. Probably sits with an overdistance excess under "things some booking offices will do but don't have to" though in slightly different circumstances.

 

[mangyiscute]

Is the solution to buy a ticket to your next interchange, and then can you buy a ticket for the whole journey (if it is cheaper than the two separate tickets) and claim a refund on the ticket you have used? Or can you never get a refund on a used ticket?

Yeah I've never had to do that, fortunately for me most of the time I am buying a normal return for the first part of my journey and then a ranger for travel around my destination area, so I can usually buy it on train or at an interchange station

 

[yorkie]

I have a further question:

What to do if the new journey planner TVMs at Selby are functional but the last journey opportunity involves grand central and thus shows no journeys as valid due to their abuse of the compulsory reservations flag? Would Northern issue a penalty fare for a passenger wanting an SVR to Thirsk at this time?

Could you take a photo of an example of this and email it to Northern? It would be interesting to see their response...

 

[maniacmartin]

If I recall correctly the old NRCoC required you to buy a ticket for part of the journey and then exchange it, but the wording was removed in the newer NRCoT terms. I guess it was removed as excessing tickets is something that ticket offices don't really like excessing tickets for some reason.