What should happen when an accessible station becomes inaccessible?

[railboy]

I'm talking about my experience yesterday at Glasgow Central when the lift to the low level had broken down. I cant use the stairs because I cant see them as i'm registered blind so I always use the lifts.

I went to the ticket office downstairs for the low level, explained my situation and was told they only sell tickets and I should ask upstairs at the station reception. So I went upstairs, wasn't exactly sure where station reception was so I went to ask at the main ticket office at the front of the station, explained the lift was broken and couldn't use the stairs and was trying to get to Hamilton Central, was told to wait to the side and someone would come down. I waited half an hour and determined nobody would come, so queued up again spoke to a different person, explained my situation again and pointed out who i first spoke to, was advised someone would definately come this time and so again I waited to the side.

Fifteen minutes later someone comes and escorts me to the low level and explained that I should wait here and another "low level" person would come to assist. I started to become very concerned and was waiting down there 15 minutes. The staff at the gateline kept on calling for help and eventually, someone else arrived. I explained my situation, politely explained that I've now been kept waiting almost an hour and asked if it was normal for this to happen. He made no comment to this. He said that he could assist me down the stairs but I explained I couldn't do this because the last time that happened I tripped and fell. He wasn't quite sure what to do now, so he took me back upstairs and got me to wait next to what looked like a very well concelled door that he went through presumably to ask someone for instructions on what should be done. I already know that from mobility training that I should be given alternitive transport to my destination and when the railway person returned he explained that I would be put in a taxi to Exhibition Centre which, according to him is the nearest accessible station.

When I asked the various people I ended up speaking to why this was taking so long, who was responsable they didn't seem to know that ether, pointing out that Scotrail runs the trains and staffs the ticket offices but network rail runs the station itself. When I also explained that as a result of this, I would be missing my last bus connection home despite the fact I was at Glasgow Central with plenty of extra time, he said that this wasn't the railway's problem and there was nothing else he could do. After another wait of about 20 minutes the taxi came and I was on my way, the opposate direction I wanted to be going and eventually joined the train to Hamilton there, the whole experience causing a two hour delay to my journey.

I'm not really sure if this is normal or what should be expected but I dont think the staff were very helpful. I ended up having to get someone to collect me at Hamilton to take me home and I think that on balance, I will be writing to Scotrail about this poor experience. I kept being told "you should have pre booked assistance" and I simply said "I dont normally need it but when your lifts break down the railway doesn't seem to be very helpful at all. What if I want to be flexible on my travel plans I do want to be as independant as possible and I dont like the idea of having to ask for help 2, 3 or more days in advance when I'd like to think I could travel independantly myself".

So I come back here to find out what everyone on here thinks. I think there was about 10 railway people wondering about the station when I was there but it seems like only one or two people in the whole station seem to have had disability awareness training. I appreciate that the station was busy as it was a Saturday afternoon but I would have thought that my problem was a very simple matter to resolve and could have been done in ten or fifteen minutes. Any thoughts and advice on what I should do in future would be appreciated.

 

[bAzTNM]

Sorry to hear about that. My mother also has a lot of bother like that, when I can't be with her, around the station.

Partick is a bloody nightmare whenever those lifts go down, which is a lot.

 

[Skimble19]

It's best to ring up 24 hours in advance, or if that really isn't possible give them a call on the day - just in case. I understand that you want to be as independent as possible, but staff can't know your circumstances unless you've informed them, hence why they offered to escort you down the stairs (eventually!). I'd they'd have already known that wasn't going to be possible the they may have gone straight for the taxi option.

It's only a scenario that could have happened though, and in reality, going by the amount of time it took them the same thing may have happened anyway, regardless of whether they knew about you. I would suggest writing to Scotrail to let them know about your experience and see what they say, although I suspect they'll say you should've called.

 

[EM2]

At the station where I work, as soon as we know that there is a fault with a lift that means there is no step-free access, the control room inform ALL staff, whether NR and TOC, and tell them that they MUST contact control before assisting a passenger.
We will then provide a taxi to the nearest accessible station.

 

[michael769]

I do not agree with the view that the OP should have called in advance. It is clear from their account that had the lift have been working they would not have required assistance. I am at a loss to understand how the OP could have been reasonably expected to anticipate 24 hours in advance that the lift would not be working and thus know to call?

I would urge the OP to complain to Scotrail. Leaving him standing at the ticket office and the the barriers apparently forgotten For long periods of time is a disgraceful way to treat a fellow human being, and displays an astonishing lack of empathy. I am also very concerned that barrier staff seem to have experienced difficulty getting someone to assist in a timely manner.

This is not a tiny out of the way station with a single staff member, but Scotland's busiest and well staffed station. I fail to understand how a member of the customer service team could not have been redeployed to assist. Even if a properly qualified staff member was not readily available someone else could at least come along to keep him up to date and reassure him that he had not been forgotten.

 

[bluenoxid]

I am really disappointed to see the service that you received. Regardless of whose responsibility this is, the customer service you were shown was disappointing. It is really easy for a journey to turn from difficult to impossible.

My advice would be to contact Scotrail and Network Rail

ScotRail Customer Relations
PO BOX 7030, Fort William, PH33 6WX

Tel: 0845 601 5929
Email: scotrailcustomer.relations@firstgroup.com

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/contact-us/online-forms/otherOLD/

If you have any issues with the submission of forms, drop a message on this site and I am sure someone will help

 

[p123]

That sounds quite bad, and really shouldn't have happened.

You wouldn't have needed to call in advance for this, as you would not have been aware that the lift was to be out of service in advance!

I'd advise contacting ScotRail. They might dodge the complaint and pass it on to Network Rail - but remember that Glasgow Central is operated by Network Rail, but Glasgow Central Low Level is operated by ScotRail. Thus, it seems odd to me that ScotRail kind of fobbed you off to Network Rail's station reception...

 

[eMeS]

Sorry to hear of your problems.

Are you saying that you can't negotiate stairs when using a stick?

 

[sevenhills]

So I come back here to find out what everyone on here thinks.

He said that he could assist me down the stairs but I explained I couldn't do this because the last time that happened I tripped and fell. He wasn't quite sure what to do now.

I dont see a taxi as being the correct solution, although if the money doesnt matter perhaps its one solution. Just because you fell last time, does not not mean that you will fall again. If in doubt he should have got another person to assist so that one person could take each arm.

 

[185]

So I come back here to find out what everyone on here thinks. I think there was about 10 railway people wondering about the station when I was there but it seems like only one or two people in the whole station seem to have had disability awareness training. I appreciate that the station was busy as it was a Saturday afternoon but I would have thought that my problem was a very simple matter to resolve and could have been done in ten or fifteen minutes. Any thoughts and advice on what I should do in future would be appreciated.

I would suggest, as a railwayman of fifteen years -

1. You should never as a disabled person have to ring up in advance, that is quite unfair. You should have the same right as other passengers to travel when you need to, including at short notice. We encourage you to call up if you can, but understand that is not always an option. Especially true when it's the railway's fault that a lift has broken down.

2. I would not bother complain to First Scotrail. They will be intent on covering this up and keeping it out of the press. I would send a letter to the local paper and the BBC, and copy it to First Scotrail's Managing Director.

3. I would advise making a full, formal complaint to Strathclyde Passenger Transport, as they pay a huge sum of money each year to First Scotrail, to run services and stations, to a minimum standard.

4. The reaction of staff was not acceptable, and it is likely First Scotrail have not paid out for the appropriate disabled assistance training to many employees and they should be brought to book for this.

 

[michael769]

2. I would not bother complain to First Scotrail. They will be intent on covering this up and keeping it out of the press. I would send a letter to the local paper and the BBC, and copy it to First Scotrail's Managing Director.

I cannot agree with this. In the first instance I would say it is appropriate to give them a chance to apologise and explain what lessons they intent to learn from the incident.

While such "shock horror" tales make for good copy, they tend to garner nothing more than a generic PR statement. But If they do not give an adequate response then it may well be appropriate to go to the media as a last ditch means of making a point.

3. I would advise making a full, formal complaint to Strathclyde Passenger Transport, as they pay a huge sum of money each year to First Scotrail, to run services and stations, to a minimum standard.

AIUI SPT no longer provide funding for Scotrail, it all comes from Transport Scotland now. If the initial response from Scotrail is unsatisfactory I would advocate that the OP raises it with their MSP.

 

[scotsman]

I'd agree with going to the press, ScotRail are unlikely to do anything other than write a letter of apology (and even customer relations have trouble with that). If you go to the press, it's likely that the Managing Director will become involved in some way (based on a previous negative ScotRail story).

 

[AlexS]

I would suggest, as a railwayman of fifteen years -

1. You should never as a disabled person have to ring up in advance, that is quite unfair. You should have the same right as other passengers to travel when you need to, including at short notice. We encourage you to call up if you can, but understand that is not always an option. Especially true when it's the railway's fault that a lift has broken down.

Disagree entirely unfortunately. If you require assistance from the rail company's staff, you should call up in advance if at all possible. It's one thing for example if you are a wheelchair user who can make your way down to the platform alone, and just requires the ramp chucking down and possibly a helping push to get into the train - that's never a problem, or if your vision is impaired and you need a hand up or down the step into the train. If however you are going to request a railway wheelchair, which requires pushing, and someone to carry a suitcase as well then it's entirely reasonable to expect you either to book so it can be ensured someone is made available to help (you have to plan your own shifts including breaks etc around our booked assistance jobs, as well as anything else like assisting with train dispatch for slam door stock), or to be willing to wait for staff availability to help. It's also difficult trying to help 3 or 4 people at once onto a train, particularly if they're spread throughout the train. The station I work at is not a major terminal, we only have so many staff and we'll go out of our way to help - but sometimes there will be a wait if you don't book. It is after all a free service provided at cost to the station operator.

It goes without saying that if 2 people turn up asking for assistance at the same time, the booked one has to take priority as they've already entered into an agreement with the train operator - the other will be dealt with 'as soon as possible', which is usually about 5-10 minutes wait.

This of course does not apply at all to this situation whereby someone who would normally be able to assist themselves is not able to do so due to a failure of the station operator's facilities. In that case contigency planning should apply and someone should be standing by to help if someone needs it, including if necessary for example pulling a manager off office duties to assist. Any decent operator would do that.

 

[Nym]

Unfortunately when you try and book this in advance and speak to customer service at certain TOCs, naming no names, operated by DOR, it's damn near impossible to actually get hold of someone who can give you an actual answer, so I now have to leave it to chance on Kings Cross to actually find out if I can fulfil the needs of a disabled passenger...

EDIT:

Almost every time I end up having to say, "You don't need to be in a wheelchair to be disabled!"

 

[Aictos]

At the station where I work, as soon as we know that there is a fault with a lift that means there is no step-free access, the control room inform ALL staff, whether NR and TOC, and tell them that they MUST contact control before assisting a passenger.
We will then provide a taxi to the nearest accessible station.

Same works for my TOC, the station affected contacts Control to advise them that the lift/s are out of order and taxis are usually booked for passengers to and from the nearest accessible station.

 

[rail-britain]

Glasgow Central very much suffers from the "not my problem" attitude when things go wrong

The Low Level ScotRail staff member was correct, the passenger needs to make the assistance enquiry at the Customer Reception desk
However the ScotRail staff may not have been aware that the lift was not working, so could have contacted them directly

The Customer Reception Desk would then contact the Network Rail staff to arrange assistance to the Low Level
However it would appear they weren't aware the lift was not working, so have to contact ScotRail when this occurs
Ironically, this leaves the passenger back at the same point they started at!

As for complaint, why not complain to all the bodies and agencies
As for the outcome, lots of paper

The OP has not advised as to the ticket type used nor the travel plans
Clearly all this hassle increased the journey time
This could be elaborated on within the complaint to ScotRail
Equally, any other passenger may receive compensation for such a delay (note that tickets wholly within the SPT would be exempt)

Almost laughable though when the OP has to walk back a second time to the main entrance of the station, for a taxi to a different station where disabled access is possible (but not actually confirmed)

 

[railboy]

The OP has not advised as to the ticket type used nor the travel plans

The ticket I have is a blind persons national entitlement card which gives me free travel throughout Scotland. As for my travel plans, I was hoping to get a train by half past 5 so that I could be at Hamilton well in time for my bus connection at 1838.

As for writing to Scotrail is concerned, I will give them the opportunity to have their say on the matter and see what becomes of it. Because of my free travel I probably wouldn't get any form of compansation. I was told I'd get a refund on my ticket if I wasn't satisfied but there is no ticket paid for in the first place.

 

[Stephen55a1960]

As a wheelchair user who has used Glasgow Central a number of times , I have always been impressed, with the assistance given. However (getting back to the OP's problem) this does sound like a major communication failure - unacceptable! If I were him, I would write to the relevant transport authorities first and take it from there. It is plainly unreasonable, for someone with a visual impairment to have to go back and forth to obtain help. Someone should have used common sense here; and helped the OP, as soon as practicable.

 

[QJ]

As for writing to Scotrail is concerned, I will give them the opportunity to have their say on the matter and see what becomes of it. Because of my free travel I probably wouldn't get any form of compansation.

How much the travel ticket cost is irrelevant (as anyone using railway privilege free tickets will tell you on occasions when the railway journey is disrupted - courtesy taxi from Kings Cross to my front door in Hampshire last time that happened to me. Only down side was having to listen to LBC for the whole journey). If you have been inconvenienced (to the point of humiliation it might appear to some) then compensation should be given.

How did you get home in the end?

 

[TUC]

I dont see a taxi as being the correct solution, although if the money doesnt matter perhaps its one solution. Just because you fell last time, does not not mean that you will fall again. If in doubt he should have got another person to assist so that one person could take each arm.

I recognise you may have particular circumstances but to avoid any wider misunderstanding its important to say that blind people can and do use stairs.(how else would a blind person get around at home!). The number of times my wife (who is blind) finds that people assume she can't use stairs, to say nothing of the times that staff turn up with a wheelchair!

 

[Requeststop]

I cannot agree with this. In the first instance I would say it is appropriate to give them a chance to apologise and explain what lessons they intent to learn from the incident.

While such "shock horror" tales make for good copy, they tend to garner nothing more than a generic PR statement. But If they do not give an adequate response then it may well be appropriate to go to the media as a last ditch means of making a point.

Actually I would complain to the Press/Broadcasters. Going through the "procedures" may well take up so much time that the situation my well occur again.

I listen to BBC Radio Cornwall's lunchtime programme with Laurence Reed, and it is surprising how often there is a speedy reply on air as a result of a complain raised on air. I'd say go for it. You were embarrassed - time they were embarrassed. You are the customer and your money/taxes pay their salaries. I'd make them go around the station blindfold. They'd soon learn when they fall down the stairs or fall onto the track.

 

[34D]

Agree 100% that this is unacceptable.

The confusion within the station also sounds like a recipe for disaster.

Here in Leeds, which is a Network Rail station, Northern Rail staff undertake all front-line duties such as barriers/ticket office/information counters.

Please do persue this - you come across as a seasoned traveller but the next person who finds themself in this situation may get distressed.

I also agree that compensation is appropriate here, both to reflect your being 2 hours late, and to cover the petrol that your friend had to use to collect you.

 

[barrykas]

Unfortunately when you try and book this in advance and speak to customer service at certain TOCs, naming no names, operated by DOR, it's damn near impossible to actually get hold of someone who can give you an actual answer, so I now have to leave it to chance on Kings Cross to actually find out if I can fulfil the needs of a disabled passenger...

Things have actually got worse since APRS was replaced by Passenger Asisst, because it's no longer possible for station staff to make assistance bookings through Journey Planner (or their TIS where that has Assistance functionality), the passenger has to phone up the relevant TOC to arrange it.

In addition, the daily reports that stations get no longer provide the passenger's contact details in case of any problems (such as a station being unstaffed at the time the passenger is travelling).

Such is "progress"....

Cheers,

Barry

 

[Stephen55a1960]

Things have actually got worse since APRS was replaced by Passenger Asisst, because it's no longer possible for station staff to make assistance bookings through Journey Planner (or their TIS where that has Assistance functionality), the passenger has to phone up the relevant TOC to arrange it.

In addition, the daily reports that stations get no longer provide the passenger's contact details in case of any problems (such as a station being unstaffed at the time the passenger is travelling).

Such is "progress"....

Cheers,

Barry

That's not strictly true. I have had dealings with Customer Service staff at Leeds, over many years. Even with the new system, they have arranged journeys for me without fuss. I have also used Northern customer relations telephone service for journeys on TPE. I'm travelling with an able bodied companion, to Lancaster, on Monday. A phone call to Northern and the details were subsequently confirmed by email.

 

[Nym]

OK, silly question but it's nearly relevant...

If I was collecting someone from a train at a Northern managed station from a TPE service having started at a VT managed station, who do I contact to get through ticket barriers to collect said disabled passenger? Northern?

 

[EM2]

I would say Yes. However, they may say 'Wait on the concourse, and we will bring them to meet you once we've helped them from the train'.

 

[Stephen55a1960]

OK, silly question but it's nearly relevant...

If I was collecting someone from a train at a Northern managed station from a TPE service having started at a VT managed station, who do I contact to get through ticket barriers to collect said disabled passenger? Northern?

Speak to the gateline staff would be my suggestion. If you were meeting a disabled person they should (if the system works?) be met by a member of staff from the managing TOC. Leeds (for example) is managed by Northern who do most of the meeting from other TOC's trains. I think the exception is East Coast (someone will prove me right or wrong there). I believe, York is managed by EC and they do the meeting of disabled passengers (that has been my experience).

 

[Nym]

I would say Yes. However, they may say 'Wait on the concourse, and we will bring them to meet you once we've helped them from the train'.

Speak to the gateline staff would be my suggestion. If you were meeting a disabled person they should (if the system works?) be met by a member of staff from the managing TOC. Leeds (for example) is managed by Northern who do most of the meeting from other TOC's trains. I think the exception is East Coast (someone will prove me right or wrong there). I believe, York is managed by EC and they do the meeting of disabled passengers (that has been my experience).

Just speaking to the gateline staff on the day might be a better option then, or even more over G4S's head and buy a platform ticket from the ticket office before attempting to pass the barriers?

Why am I being hypothetical here? It's Bolton railway station...

Either way, I'm a lot more tempted to speak to Northern if I do speak to anyone in advance.

 

[railboy]

I have received my response from First Scotrail today.

In general it is apologising for the inconvenience caused and trying hard to make it out to be that it is not their problem and we are not responsable if things go wrong. One paragraph stands out from the rest.

Under the terms of the National Rail Conditions of Carriage, we do not accept liability for any consequential loss or costs that may arise from the delay and/or cancellation of any train, the missing of any connection, or the closure of the railway (for whatever reason). Although I can sympathise with your situation at Glasgow Central, I cannot accede any claim for missing a bus connection from Hamilton to Strathaven on this occasion.

Is this really true? I thought that the railway had to help you if you were stranded because of a problem within their control and I'm sure this would include the failure of station equipment such as lifts from operating. The following paragraphs state that if I had booked assistance this problem would not have happened and as they've not replied in 7 days they have given me a £5 rail travel voucher which is little use for me and doesn't really amount to much in terms of compansation. I'd type out the whole letter but its quite long. I guess there is little I can do now but move on and hope that this doesn't happen again!

 

[michael769]

I thought that the railway had to help you if you were stranded because of a problem within their control and I'm sure this would include the failure of station equipment such as lifts from operating.

Under NCoC condition 43 they do have to help you if you end up stranded before arriving at the destination on your ticket. Unfortunately if they can get you to that destination from there on in your are on your own. (My Bolds)

43. Help from Train Companies if you are stranded
If disruption caused by circumstances within the control of a Train Company or a Rail
Service Company leaves you stranded before you have reached your destination printed
on or stored on your ticket, and the Train Company whose trains you are entitled to use
is unable to get you to that destination by other means, any Train Company which is in a
position to help will, if it reasonably can, either arrange to get you to that destination, or
provide overnight accommodation for you

In any case failure of station equipment does not come under the heading of being within their control:

45. Circumstances that are not within a Train Company’s control

....

mechanical or electrical failure or a defect (except where this is caused by
a Train Company or Rail Service Company or their staff or agents, or as a result of
the condition of a Train Company’s trains).

The following paragraphs state that if I had booked assistance this problem would not have happened

As I have already said, since you would (I assume) have been able to cope had the advertised station facilities been available, it is unreasonable for them to expect you to somehow know in a day in advance that it would be unavailable and that you needed to book assistance. Personally I would complain to Passenger Focus or your MSP (based on my recent experience I would suggest the MSP) about this aspect of their response.