What mode will Crossrail 2 be?

[Fazaar1889]

The Elizabeth line is a separate mode from the underground, overground etc. One can assume that Crossrail 2 may fall under the same mode as the Elizabeth line. Do you think Tfl will give the whole mode a new name or will they give CR2 a separate mode?

 

[London Trains]

I've always thought "Crossrail" should be a new mode (similar to the Underground) and the Elizabeth Line and CR2 should both come under that.

 

[JonathanH]

Do you think Tfl will give the whole mode a new name or will they give CR2 a separate mode?

Earmarked for "Charles Line" isn't it?
However, by the time it is built it may well be the "William Line".

 

[Fazaar1889]

I've always thought "Crossrail" should be a new mode (similar to the Underground) and the Elizabeth Line and CR2 should both come under that.

Yeah that's what I think is most likely

 

[Sad Sprinter]

Earmarked for "Charles Line" isn't it?
However, by the time it is built it may well be the "William Line".

Is that actually true? I wish they had just stuck with the Crossrail brand

 

[AndrewE]

What mode? I would hope it would be something like a relatively low-cost tram subway, part of an electrified surface metro - if anything is built at all.

There are many big metropolitan areas outside London where improved public transport is desperately needed - and decades overdue. Don't tell us (again) that the City pays lots of tax. I would counter that it's only because that is where they take my pension to the casino, lose loads but still pay themselves millions! The "City's" gains are often off the backs of us poor hicks out in the sticks.

 

[swt_passenger]

What mode? I would hope it would be something like a relatively low-cost tram subway, part of an electrified surface metro - if anything is built at all.

It was all assessed, when they were choosing between a new deep tube line or proper full size 200m mainline sized trains. The latter choice was the eventual decision, ie same as Crossrail 1, although dual voltage trains would be used in the SW part of the line.

I understood TFL had concluded they would never build another “deep tube size” line, ie similar size to the Jubilee etc.

 

[Fazaar1889]

What mode?

The different modes of TfL are: Underground, Overground, Bus, Tram, DLR etc.

The Elizabeth line is it's own mode so I was wondering how CR2 would integrate

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I understood TFL had concluded they would never build another “deep tube size” line, ie similar size to the Jubilee etc.

Yes... I don't think they will. If they ever build another deep level tube line, it will probably be mainline size, just with the red and white colouring.

 

[Thirteen]

I wouldn't be surprised if they decide to fold the Elizabeth Line into an overall Crossrail modal brand.

As for the name for CR2, the Churchill Line was mooted at one point.

 

[AndrewE]

It was all assessed, when they were choosing between a new deep tube line or proper full size 200m mainline sized trains. The latter choice was the eventual decision, ie same as Crossrail 1, although dual voltage trains would be used in the SW part of the line.

I understood TFL had concluded they would never build another “deep tube size” line, ie similar size to the Jubilee etc.

That's as may be. London is already too big and too dense for its own good (and has too much of the UK's money.) There is no point spending ever more billions trying to help people get around (and make it even richer?)

We learnt in the 1970s that you can't build enough infrastructure to let road traffic move freely in a city without destroying the lives and environment of the rest (who put up with public transport either for financial reasons or on principle.) I am beginning to think that London has reached the same stage with public transport! I suppose you could start by banning private road traffic (in favour of trams and buses) but investment needs to go elsewhere first...

 

[cle]

Imaginary mode. It's the Victoria line.

 

[Sad Sprinter]

That's as may be. London is already too big and too dense for its own good (and has too much of the UK's money.) There is no point spending ever more billions trying to help people get around (and make it even richer?)

We learnt in the 1970s that you can't build enough infrastructure to let road traffic move freely in a city without destroying the lives and environment of the rest (who put up with public transport either for financial reasons or on principle.) I am beginning to think that London has reached the same stage with public transport! I suppose you could start by banning private road traffic (in favour of trams and buses) but investment needs to go elsewhere first...

It's not that dense, New York is far more dense. It's quite manageable since COVID

 

[Bald Rick]

I can confirm that:

1) Crossrail 2 would be considered the same as the Elizabeth Line
2) the ‘name‘ of Crossrail 2 was never discussed, considered, optioned etc. by TfL, even in jest. All names proposed were pure speculation in places like this.

 

[Fazaar1889]

I can confirm that:

1) Crossrail 2 would be considered the same as the Elizabeth Line
2) the ‘name‘ of Crossrail 2 was never discussed, considered, optioned etc. by TfL, even in jest. All names proposed were pure speculation in places like this.

Ah nice thanks. Is TfL going to keep the mode name as The Elizabeth Line?

 

[Bald Rick]

I not sure, really, what you mean by ‘mode name’.

The Elizabeth Line is a brand.

Its method of operation would be replicated for Crossrail 2 - ie national rail, but with TfL standards for the new underground stations.

 

[PGAT]

Crossrail 2 is a sequel to the first and revolves around the same premise. They should be the same mode

 

[Fazaar1889]

I not sure, really, what you mean by ‘mode name’.

The Elizabeth Line is a brand.

Its method of operation would be replicated for Crossrail 2 - ie national rail, but with TfL standards for the new underground stations.

The different modes of TfL are: Underground, Overground, Bus, Tram, DLR etc.

The Elizabeth line is it's own mode so I was wondering how CR2 would integrate

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What we do

TfL is responsible for the day-to-day running of the capital's transport system.

tfl.gov.uk

Elizabeth line is listed separately here

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Crossrail 2 is a sequel to the first and revolves around the same premise. They should be the same mode

Yes I hope so

 

[Bartsimho]

Maybe as part of this TfL takes over Thameslink and Great Northern.

All traverse through London and are key services linking North to South (Well North to the City in Great Northerns case).

Run Crossrail 2 as ECML to SWML tunnelling from Arsenal (where the Northern City Line dives under) through Angel, Farringdon, Charing Cross, Victoria

 

[JonathanH]

Maybe as part of this TfL takes over Thameslink and Great Northern.

I think it can safely be said that TfL are not going to take over Thameslink.

TfL's responsibilities are solely to Londoners, no one else.

Run Crossrail 2 as ECML to SWML tunnelling from Arsenal (where the Northern City Line dives under) through Angel, Farringdon, Charing Cross, Victoria

Crossrail 2 has a safeguarded route. I think it can also be safely said that that route is not going to be reworked, even if construction is many years away.

 

[Bald Rick]

The different modes of TfL are: Underground, Overground, Bus, Tram, DLR etc.

I think you are overthinking things.

 

[RobShipway]

The different modes of TfL are: Underground, Overground, Bus, Tram, DLR etc.

The Elizabeth line is it's own mode so I was wondering how CR2 would integrate

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Elizabeth line is listed separately here

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Yes I hope so

If anything like the Elizabeth line, it will just be a route line that is operated by TFL. When it comes to the trains, the only difference will be that it is probably going to be a later version of Aventra with dual-voltage capability. These are likely to be introduced after it has picked up using existing stock from the TOC's doing services at present that would be replaced by TFL running Crossrail 2.

 

[m79900]

Wait, so is CR2 actually happening? Surely London has plenty enough railways!

 

[AndrewE]

Wait, so is CR2 actually happening? Surely London has plenty enough railways!

see post #10 !

 

[stuu]

Wait, so is CR2 actually happening? Surely London has plenty enough railways!

No, it isn't. There's no chance of it getting the go ahead in the next five years, and almost certainly longer

 

[JonathanH]

No, it isn't. There's no chance of it getting the go ahead in the next five years, and almost certainly longer

Yes, I can't really imagine what is going to trigger it happening now with everything seemingly stood down.

Presumably it needs to get to the top of a mayor's priority list, then a campaign and lobbying started to rebuild the business case, and it needs to deemed more important than other infrastructure projects.

It certainly isn't the case that just because a plan for Crossrail 2 exists, that it will be built any time soon. There just isn't enough support for it.

 

[PTR 444]

I not sure, really, what you mean by ‘mode name’.

The Elizabeth Line is a brand.

Its method of operation would be replicated for Crossrail 2 - ie national rail, but with TfL standards for the new underground stations.

I think they mean that the Elizabeth Line is shown as its own brand on roundels and signage, like the Underground, Overground, DLR etc. Personally I would have had Crossrail as the official name of the mode/brand, with the Elizabeth Line and any future line names retained as part of this mode. Similar to how the Bakerloo and Central lines etc are part of the Underground, the Elizabeth Line would be part of Crossrail.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Earmarked for "Charles Line" isn't it?
However, by the time it is built it may well be the "William Line".

If we're naming it after Chuck 3, how about "the Caroline"?

in terms of "mode", which is quite a vague term, I'd expect it will/would be a full-size Metro line similar to the Elizabeth Line, but as it won't extend quite so far out (or serve an airport) it'll possibly be more comparable to the Overground in terms of operations.

 

[cle]

Where did they settle on Chelsea/Kings Road station? Angel? Dalston vs Hackney? The weird New Southgate routing? It still felt very nebulous north of the West End.

Did all of that remain in the safeguarded route?

Will the SWML fifth track plan proceed without CR2?
And any more quadding/line capacity work on the WAML? I saw something about Ponders End passing/extending some of the Meridian Water works.

 

[Sapphire Blue]

Logically it would be the CrissCrossline

 

[Bald Rick]

Will the SWML fifth track plan proceed without CR2?

No - it was never a serious plan.

And any more quadding/line capacity work on the WAML?

No.

I saw something about Ponders End passing/extending some of the Meridian Water works.

Thats a separate project for a loop at Ponders end - it doesn’t provide additional capacity but does enable more trains to call at Meridian Water. (At the cost of slowing down several existing journey times)