What Makes You Proud to be British?

[ainsworth74]

I don't really get your point here. Are you saying that the RAF, Army and Royal Navy would be better if they continued to use old, outdated and sometimes decrepit technology?

No they're saying that the loss of equipment without replacement is damaging the armed forces, not that they don't need new equipment (which they do). Take for instance in the period 2003-2009 we had a 41% reduction in Battle Tanks (560 to 328 ), a 39% reduction in helicopters (366 to 222), a reduction from 31 escourt ships (Destoryers and Frigates) to 24.

 

[90019]

Urban myth or not, its a sad, sad situation that it is even a thought to change the song due to politcally correct idiots

It wasn't changed because of PC. Sometimes nursery teachers would change the words to introduce more vocabulary to the children, which isn't unusual, and is done with plenty of nursery rhymes, but the tabloids jumped on this particular one crying 'PC gone mad!!'.

Have a listen to this from The Now Show a couple of weeks back, which shows just how out of propertion tabloids will take what are really non-stories, just to shcok people and sell more papers.

 

[lm321412]

It wasn't, that's an urban myth.

Birmingham City Council told all schools to discourage from using "Black Sheep" and to use "Rainbow Sheep"... Not an urban myth

 

[90019]

Birmingham City Council told all schools to discourage from using "Black Sheep" and to use "Rainbow Sheep"... Not an urban myth

Your source?

 

[Geezertronic]

Your source?

Here's one about a nursery in Oxfordshire that did it, although it does mention that the guidelines made by Birmingham CC in 2000 were "dropped after black parents condemned the advice as ridiculous."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/4782856.stm

Another source says these reports (and others about other nursery rhymes are exaggerated or distorted by the press as already stated for PC purposes

http://www.septicisle.info/2006/03/baa-baa-rainbow-bollocks.html

 

[Kneedown]

Birmingham City Council told all schools to discourage from using "Black Sheep" and to use "Rainbow Sheep"... Not an urban myth

Will "Rainbow Sheep" be banned too when Peter Tatchell and Stonewall get wind of it?

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Birmingham City Council told all schools to discourage from using "Black Sheep" and to use "Rainbow Sheep"... Not an urban myth

Not true.

A similar controversy emerged in 1999 when reservations about the rhyme were submitted to Birmingham City Council by a working group on racism in children's resources, which were never approved or implemented.[5] Press assertions that two private nurseries in Oxfordshire in 2006 had altered the song to "Baa Baa Rainbow Sheep" were prompted by another attempt to allow the song to be repeated with variations.[6] Commentators have asserted that these controversies have been exaggerated or distorted by some elements of the press as part of a more general campaign against political correctness.[4]

 

[me123]

The funny thing about the whole "rainbow sheep" controversy is that now teachers who are trying to improve children's vocabulary are being victimised by the popular press. You now have to sing black sheep, or you're a "lefty PC loony" or whatever.

Which brings me to one thing that I genuinely am ashamed of in the UK; the media.

 

[the sniper]

No they're saying that the loss of equipment without replacement is damaging the armed forces, not that they don't need new equipment (which they do). Take for instance in the period 2003-2009 we had a 41% reduction in Battle Tanks (560 to 328 ), a 39% reduction in helicopters (366 to 222), a reduction from 31 escourt ships (Destoryers and Frigates) to 24.

Ah ok, but you could argue that war has changed over the last two or three decades so so many tanks and ships aren't really required any more.

The Royal Navy is still the second largest Navy in NATO and third (?) largest in the world, so it's not too shabby.

Which brings me to one thing that I genuinely am ashamed of in the UK; the media.

I think we can all agree on that! Especially the tabloid media!

 

[455driver]

Scotish Born and Bred. And proud of it. scots are proud to be Scotish 364 days a year not just on special ocasions

And living in Essex, didnt know that was north of the border

 

[theblackwatch]

Proud Scot but NOT a Nationalist. Really don't see the point of independence. Britain works well as a Union, so why change the status quo.

Proud to be a Scot:
1. The Scottish Parliament
2. Hearing "Highland Cathedral" from the massed Pipes and Drums at Murrayfield
3. Caledonian MacBrayne
4. The highest Labour majorities in the UK

Not the football team?

 

[TrainBrain185]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...nefits-walking-400-metres-prosthetic-leg.html

Proud to be British??

 

[ainsworth74]

Ah ok, but you could argue that war has changed over the last two or three decades so so many tanks and ships aren't really required any more.

Its easier to convert an army designed to fight a conventional war (think Gulf War 1) into one designed to fight counter insurgency (Afghanistan) than to change from COIN to conventional warfare. That alone is a strong reason to maintain our conventional forces, but also I'm not convinced that the nature of war has changed to the point where all we are going to have to do is COIN operations. The Russian invasion of Georgia in 2008 was a conventional war and many other nations still plan for conventional war fighting.

The Royal Navy is still the second largest Navy in NATO and third (?) largest in the world, so it's not too shabby.

But it is shabby, it might be the second largest (by tonnage) in NATO, but not third in the world, I don't have the figures to hand but Russia, China and possibly Japan all have bigger fleets. But also the main destoryer that the RN uses is at least 25 years old and more like 30, using weapon systems designed in the 1960s! The replacement for this is a fantastic ship but we are replacing a class of 14 with 6! As an island nation that relies on open sea lanes for everything from food (we can't feed ourselves) to TVs and increasingly oil + gas its stupid to draw down the Navy to the degree it has been.

Also appolgies for the rant but this is something that annoys me greatly

 

[Greenback]

But it is shabby, it might be the second largest (by tonnage) in NATO, but not third in the world, I don't have the figures to hand but Russia, China and possibly Japan all have bigger fleets. But also the main destoryer that the RN uses is at least 25 years old and more like 30, using weapon systems designed in the 1960s! The replacement for this is a fantastic ship but we are replacing a class of 14 with 6! As an island nation that relies on open sea lanes for everything from food (we can't feed ourselves) to TVs and increasingly oil + gas its stupid to draw down the Navy to the degree it has been.

Also appolgies for the rant but this is something that annoys me greatly

No, you are correct to challenge the assertion that the Royal Navy is 3rd largest in the world.

Im not sure how this would be calculated ie whether it is by gross tonnage or not, but looking at the number of hulls, plus the capabilities of the major combatants, there are clearly more than 2 nations (I presume the precious poster meant) ahead of us. I would guess that several of the following nations would be deemed larger, depending on the exact criteria used:

US, Russia, China, Ukraine, Japan, China, Ukraine, France, India.

I'm not certain about the current strength of Italy and Spain.

 

[CarterUSM]

No, you are correct to challenge the assertion that the Royal Navy is 3rd largest in the world.

Im not sure how this would be calculated ie whether it is by gross tonnage or not, but looking at the number of hulls, plus the capabilities of the major combatants, there are clearly more than 2 nations (I presume the precious poster meant) ahead of us. I would guess that several of the following nations would be deemed larger, depending on the exact criteria used:

US, Russia, China, Ukraine, Japan, China, Ukraine, France, India.

I'm not certain about the current strength of Italy and Spain.

Only the US, Russia, France and the UK have what is termed a Blue water Navy, the others you mention have limited expeditionary capabilities at best, with the possible exception of China who seem to favour number over quality. Notwithstanding, it is difficult to see our Navy being decimated number wise, although i'd argue it is offset by technology somewhat and by training and personnel very much.

 

[the sniper]

Its easier to convert an army designed to fight a conventional war (think Gulf War 1) into one designed to fight counter insurgency (Afghanistan) than to change from COIN to conventional warfare. That alone is a strong reason to maintain our conventional forces, but also I'm not convinced that the nature of war has changed to the point where all we are going to have to do is COIN operations. The Russian invasion of Georgia in 2008 was a conventional war and many other nations still plan for conventional war fighting.

True. Looks like we're going to have to avoid conventional wars from now on then!

But it is shabby, it might be the second largest (by tonnage) in NATO, but not third in the world, I don't have the figures to hand but Russia, China and possibly Japan all have bigger fleets. But also the main destoryer that the RN uses is at least 25 years old and more like 30, using weapon systems designed in the 1960s! The replacement for this is a fantastic ship but we are replacing a class of 14 with 6! As an island nation that relies on open sea lanes for everything from food (we can't feed ourselves) to TVs and increasingly oil + gas its stupid to draw down the Navy to the degree it has been.

No, you are correct to challenge the assertion that the Royal Navy is 3rd largest in the world.

Im not sure how this would be calculated ie whether it is by gross tonnage or not, but looking at the number of hulls, plus the capabilities of the major combatants, there are clearly more than 2 nations (I presume the precious poster meant) ahead of us. I would guess that several of the following nations would be deemed larger, depending on the exact criteria used:

US, Russia, China, Ukraine, Japan, China, Ukraine, France, India.

As has become apparent, my Navy knowledge isn't that great!

I shouldn't have said largest, as what I was told by a friend is that the Royal Navy is probably the third best Navy in the world in terms of training and 'blue water' capabilities (I didn't know what this was until he told me) so could exert more power then, say, China. He said of Japan that their Navy is impressive but now mainly limited to self defence against North Korea (EDIT: Which I presumed is due to US sanctions introduced after WW2).

He said that the French and Russian's are the other ones in our league, so he most probably wasn't talking in terms of size. My mistake.

Also appolgies for the rant but this is something that annoys me greatly

No problem, I'm all for your cause. Even if the Royal Navy never get used again, I'd still want them to be maintained as a strong force that we can be proud of. Considering our naval history, it's only right.

 

[Greenback]

As has become apparent, my Navy knowledge isn't that great!

I shouldn't have said largest, as what I was told by a friend is that the Royal Navy is probably the third best Navy in the world in terms of training and 'blue water' capabilities (I didn't know what this was until he told me) so could exert more power then, say, China. He said of Japan that their Navy is impressive but now mainly limited to self defence against North Korea (EDIT: Which I presumed is due to US sanctions introduced after WW2).

He said that the French and Russian's are the other ones in our league, so he most probably wasn't talking in terms of size. My mistake.

Nothing is simple, though - in terms of firepower the RN must be near the top, if only due to the Trident's!

My brother, who was an officer in the RN for quite afew years, reckons that constant cuts in support services has reduced the effectiveness of the fleet that is left. He syas there has been a marked reduction in live firing exercises (replaced by computer simulations), that some ships are not serviceable as they have been cannabilsed for spares, and that maintenance has suffered.

Although he's not completely up to date, he still has many contacts in the service.

 

[delt1c]

And living in Essex, didnt know that was north of the border

Moved south 30 years ago as Misionary, sadly failed but still trying.

 

[yorkie]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...nefits-walking-400-metres-prosthetic-leg.html

Proud to be British??

He will get £1,300/month pension.

Let's put this into perspective; if he was from many other countries he would not get that amount of money in several years.

Our benefits are higher than many other countries.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Will "Rainbow Sheep" be banned too when Peter Tatchell and Stonewall get wind of it?

That Tatchell is an idiot too

 

[455driver]

Received this as an email, now I am not sure of the acuracy so dont shoot the messanger!


HUNG PARLIMENT - HANGING'S TOO GOOD FOR THEM

This is interesting!
Let me see if I understand all this .........

IF YOU CROSS THE NORTH KOREAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU GET 12 YEARS HARD LABOUR.
IF YOU CROSS THE IRANIAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU ARE DETAINED INDEFINITELY.
IF YOU CROSS THE AFGHAN BORDER ILLEGALLY, YOU GET SHOT.
IF YOU CROSS THE SAUDI ARABIAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU WILL BE JAILED.
IF YOU CROSS THE CHINESE BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU MAY NEVER BE HEARD FROM AGAIN.
IF YOU CROSS THE VENEZUELAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU WILL BE BRANDED A SPY AND YOUR FATE WILL BE SEALED.
IF YOU CROSS THE CUBAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU WILL BE THROWN INTO POLITICAL PRISON TO ROT.

IF YOU CROSS THE BRITISH BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU GET A JOB, A DRIVERS LICENCE, PENSION CARD, WELFARE, CREDIT CARDS, SUBSIDISED RENT OR A LOAN TO BUY A HOUSE, FREE EDUCATION AND FREE HEALTH CARE.

Are you aware of the following?
The British Government provides the following financial assistance: -

BENEFIT
BRITISH OLD AGE PENSIONER
ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS / REFUGEES LIVING IN BRITAIN

Weekly allowance/Pension
£100
£250

Weekly Spouse allowance /Pension
£50
£225

Additional weekly hardship allowance
£0
£100

TOTAL YEARLY BENEFIT
£7,800
£29,900

If I was a refugee, why would I look for work?
Please forward to all your contacts so that we can lobby for an increase in the old age pension.
After all, the average pensioner has paid taxes and contributed to the growth of this country
for around 40 years

Now this does NOT make me proud.

 

[Wyvern]

Received this as an email, now I am not sure of the acuracy so dont shoot the messanger!

Sounds like a load of National Front crap

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Its amazing how illegal immigration to China, Afghanistan, Venezuela, N Korea is much lower when you don't get paid to live there!

You can also be shot if you try to cross the USA/Mexico border from the South.

I would happily support a tax increase to fund our older generation. It disguists me how we have pensioners freezing to death all Winter and not eat for 2 weeks, yet we give money to Zimbabwe etc, which just gets taken by the govts there to fund weapons. Shame I'm too young to pay tax

Oh, we can't have a pension increase because it wouldn't fit in with the EU's dictatorship over us. Not that makes me unproud to be British: the very notion that we are associated with Brussels

 

[Wyvern]

Firstly illegal immigrants are not allowed to work and get no benefits

Secondly pensioners are worse off here than in much of the EU but not as bad as some like to make out

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Firstly illegal immigrants are not allowed to work and get no benefits

Secondly pensioners are worse off here than in much of the EU but not as bad as some like to make out

Firstly, ok then immigrants

Second, that's because half the countries in the EU are poor. Countries in like France and germany etc, are rich, to an extent, yet they don't let there pensioners freeze in the wintertime, give them next to nothing when they've worked for 45 years.

 

[TrainBrain185]

He will get £1,300/month pension.

Let's put this into perspective; if he was from many other countries he would not get that amount of money in several years.

Our benefits are higher than many other countries.

Hello Yorkie, I may accept your answer if you can disclose the info regards the £1,300/month pension figures?.?.Many thanks.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Read the article TrainBrain. It says at the bottom of it. It also mentions his army wage, which was 1400 a month.

 

[thefab444]

To be honest, an net increase in the old age pension is unaffordable, and would further cripple tax revenues. The problem is two fold, firstly pensioners are living far too long, and secondly there are far too many of them. Given that it is a problem we can't do anything about, and in order to redistribute some of the pension money to those that actually need it, I would introduce means testing for benefits like the free bus pass scheme, council tax relief, and winter fuel.

MattE2010's argument sounds like it has been copied and pasted from the Daily Mail, have you got any factual proof that old people are going without food for two weeks and freezing to death en masse? Likewise, the idea that the EU is some dictatorial Satan hanging over Good Old Britain comes straight from the pages of a tabloid rag.

Its amazing how illegal immigration to China, Afghanistan, Venezuela, N Korea is much lower when you don't get paid to live there!

Well would you want to live in Afghanistan? North Korea is pretty much shut off from the outside world, and Chinese immigration isn't much more liberal. Not sure why you included Venezuala in that list, it's got nothing in common with the other three.

 

[scotsman]

Not the football team?

No. It's a joke. More a rugby fan anyway.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Received this as an email, now I am not sure of the acuracy so dont shoot the messanger!

Load of dangerous BNP crap

 

[MidnightFlyer]

To be honest, an net increase in the old age pension is unaffordable, and would further cripple tax revenues. The problem is two fold, firstly pensioners are living far too long, and secondly there are far too many of them. Given that it is a problem we can't do anything about, and in order to redistribute some of the pension money to those that actually need it, I would introduce means testing for benefits like the free bus pass scheme, council tax relief, and winter fuel.

MattE2010's argument sounds like it has been copied and pasted from the Daily Mail, have you got any factual proof that old people are going without food for two weeks and freezing to death en masse? Likewise, the idea that the EU is some dictatorial Satan hanging over Good Old Britain comes straight from the pages of a tabloid rag.



Well would you want to live in Afghanistan? North Korea is pretty much shut off from the outside world, and Chinese immigration isn't much more liberal. Not sure why you included Venezuala in that list, it's got nothing in common with the other three.

Look I'm not here to get into a political argument, I'm just saying that I think it is wrong that in such a powerful country, we are forgetting about the old people inside our shores, it's not copied from the Daily Mail, I avoid newspapers after the Max Mosely nazi-Spanking Sex scandal, At best i read the Indepeandant, but believe me, there are a lot more deeper secrets than appear in the EU .