What job?!!!

[guy_in_wales]

I recently attended an interview with XC trains, Bristol based for RSM role. XC recruitment had selected 6 candidates to be interviewed, with just 4 candidates turning up.

How the day proceeded:
4 of us sat in the Mess room. We were then taken though to a training room, where we had a short talk about the job.. basically 4 day week you'll pull a trolley though the train and no body leaves Bristol, we don't have any jobs at the station, but Head Office said we can recruit for one RSM here. The day was 2 tests and a group discussion and if we passed that, an interview.

We then sat the standard 2 tests, numerical, basic maths with a few timings thrown in for good measure. Then, the English test.
We were then asked if we wanted to have a break or continue, and we opted to continue. The group discussion. This was interesting as it involved a plane crash and had to choose 7 items to take with us. (OK I've been airline crew for 27 years, and before that steward on BR Intercity ex Euston, St Pancras and Nottingham) You have my background history now lol so I was careful with being "clever" although I did make my comments and suggestions. A few more XC employees where brought into the room for the group discussion including a RSM, who needed to see how recruitment ran. And I believe was going for the coaching role. We then had a break. As candidates now who had broken the ice, back in the Mess room we began to chat and discovered most had an airline background of some sort, although they were no longer working for an airline but at various airports.
One guy was very quiet and really didn't get involved with discussions, but he did make one or two comments during the group discussion.
After about 20 minutes, we were all taken back to the training room. I hoped that if we were either successfully or unsuccessful it would not be done in front of the other candidates. I sat down, and basically told that none of us had been successfully, and half heartedly given the usual chat of thank you for coming and how hard it is to get a position now days, we have very high standard. *cough* So a major global airline based at London, with First, Business and Economy cabins which I work in isn`t high enough standard? Hmmm
I don't feel in anyway I'm privileged to walk in and get a job, just like that. I'm probably over qualified if anything with B/TEC in Catering Management and general experience of 27 yrs working with travelling public.
But was there really a job at the station? I know FGW were advertising for similar at the same station. I would have been taking a £10k+ pay drop but they would not have known that either. Now whilst £8 fare plus a little petrol is a right off for me; more of wasting my time is my major factor. The other candidates weren't in a similar situation.
I'm sure train management teams brows these forums. If there was not positions at the station, why not send an email to candidates saying sorry, vacancy is no longer available. Whilst its a disappointment, at least your not wasting my time, other candidates time and your own time.
Something to watch for any hopefuls

 

[Razor1967]

Yeah my experience with Cross Country wasn't great too !

Last year applied for a Train Managers role at Leeds and got invited to an Assessment Centre with about 10 others, most who are already worked for XC in the catering side or for other rail outfits.

Had the talk, did the tests and then group roleplay.

During this loads of hanging around in the mess room at Leeds station.

Anyway after about 4 hours altogether, 4 people were selected for final interview, including me, the only external left (the other 3 already worked for XC !).

Anyway gave the interview my best shot (I have worked in my current role in a Bank for 25 years so the interview technique was a bit rusty !!!).

Thought I did OK but perhaps rambled a little bit on some questions but nerves probably got the better of me.

They thanked me for my time and said they would be in touch shortly and the guy said they always give feedback after interview if you request it..

About 3 days later got a standard email stating Dear xxxx (no name to personalise it, just the xxxxs), bit unprofessional I thought, with a standard thanks but did not meet standard etc.

Fair enough, thought I did well to get to final interview from about 150 applications.

Sent an email via the link asking for feedback so I could brush up my shortcomings for next time. Despite 3 requests never heard anything from them again !!!

A real shame that they couldn't be bothered to get back in touch and it did leave me a bit bitter at the time.

Oddly enough I met by chance a Cross Country employee who had been at the Assessment day a few months later who didn't get to final interview. He said (not sure how true this was), that it was one big stitch up and the person who got the job (who worked for XC) had been tipped the wink to say it was theirs as long as they did not mess up in the Tests etc.

Oddly they were the quietest one in the Group discussion and what they did say, I thought was quite negative !!

Anyway you live and learn !!!

 

[guy_in_wales]

Thanks for sharing your experience. I thought it was odd at the start of the assessment day with the "we don`t have any jobs at Bristol, but Management have said we can have one position"
There was a few slips of the tongue which you forget at the time, only when you think back, with ah yes.. mmmm

I feel more for the other candidates who coughed up hard earned £`s who where on pretty much min wage to attend the interview when there probably wasn`t a job in the first place. For me, more wasting my time with it.
I`ve asked for feedback, so look forward to their reply, in a week or 2.

 

[LowLevel]

Funnily enough, as you've mentioned it, a few years back I also went for an assessment with XC. Again, the whole group failed on the group discussion (despite there being a very broad spectrum of different performers) I did think it was a bit odd at the time.

 

[Greenback]

Nothing surprises me about XC, I've heard plenty of horror stories about their back room functions, or should I say dysfunctions. From the eharsay I've picked up from insiders, decisions keep being changed, often at very short notice, things get overlooked, confused messages come down from on high and so on.

In this case, it sounds as though it may be a case of top management wanting a new post, but local managers not seeing any need for it (though my sources say it is normally in reverse!).

That said, it is possible, I suppose, that the marking or scoring system used meant that no one matched what they were looking for. Without knowing more about the job and the appraisal method, though, I wouldn't like to even hazard a guess about what actually transpired.

 

[at60]

Razor1967, hi there. I was in with you that day. Was it you who did the 1st interview so you could get back to York to collect the kids ?
I was also external, the two girls were XC rpo & rsm. Don't forget, there were also another 7 following us the day after.
My feeling was that you would get it, I was last in & both girls played it down, saying they thought they had messed up the interview. However, after you, my money was on the rpo lady, as she was internal, & obviously clued up about the role, having already done a number of years on-board working closely with the TM.
I royally screwed my interview, so I knew I wouldn't get it. Like you, I hadn't had an interview for 20 years. Also, like you, I couldn't get any feedback, although my e-mail said that they were 'very impressed with my Assesments'. - I took that to mean they weren't impressed with my interview……
After all that, my XC email account status still reads 'successful, on hold'. I was gutted not to get this, and would love another chance, but Leeds is the only base I could comfortably travel, and I haven't seen another TM position there since, and at 53 years old, it looks like the chances are less than slim for me.

 

[Razor1967]

Yeah that was me !!

Ha Ha small world isn't it !!

Although disappointed on the day we should be both proud we got that far !

I think getting into the Rail industry is really hard, once in you get a much better chance of getting on.

I applied for the East Coast Guards job (or whatever they call it) later in the year and again got to the the Assessment Centre in York after beating the sift.

They did it a different way. Talks etc first then timed interviews where you move around a big room answering questions with 5 minutes for each.

Thought I did really well this time and then into the Group roleplay.

I though this was a bit unfair as the roleplay was a broken down East Coast train with an ill guard and no air conditioning. Again most of the candidates were internal or from other operators apart me and another lad who worked in the Prison service. Of course all the others reeled off their no doubt well practised drills about what to do in this scenario.

They mentioning "inform Control and to open emergency doors to let air in with special booms or something for the doors" amongst other technical options. Of course me and the other lad were a bit bewildered and although we did chip in, or course the others guys were in their their element reeling off their knowledge.

I thought the XC assessment was much fairer as the roleplay was on a generic situation where no insider knowledge was required.

Next stage was the ticket selling tests etc. However they trimmed the candidates before then and lo and behold both me and the other external were bombed out. Looking at who got through to the final 6, 4 were EC staff, 1 XC and some one else I cannot remember.

The other external lad made the same comment about the group role play been a tad unfair but anyway off we went with the walk of shame onto the platforms at York.

After my 2 experiences I have given up on trying to break into the industry as the only jobs cost effective to me after all my time in Banking is Guards jobs upwards.

At 46 and with 25 years service in Banking under my belt with a decent pension, life package etc. I will stick it out as I do feel you maybe have to go in on a lower level in the Rail industry and work up.

Of course reading on here, other folk have made it and I wish them all well, but my 2 experiences have put me off........ for the time being !!!!!!!

 

[at60]

Well done on getting an EC Assesment. I've had applications in for 4 different posts with them, & not been picked for Assesment once !
Next up for me was Freightliner Heavy Haul driver. I passed the initial Assesments at Crewe, then down to Watford for reactions test and Multi mode interview. Passed the test but blew the interview. The thing about this, apart from being disapointed at not making it, was the fact that I took 2 days off work, paid my own travel and a hotel at Watford, which put me out of pocket for over £200 ! I'm self-employed, so I also lost out on 2 days earnings.
I've also now virtually given up, it makes you wonder what they're looking for sometimes, though I do think I might have fared a bit better 10 years ago!

 

[Razor1967]

Yeah I must admit the cost is a factor along with the short notice you get to attend.

I applied for TPE Guards job in York in November.

On the 30th December again got offered an interview (obviously getting better at this application lark !!) but the interview was about 4 days later in Newcastle.

It was impossible to get time off in my job at such short notice unless I threw a sickie, which is not a good idea if the boss finds out.

It then said if you got though that, you would go to part 2, the Assessment Centre for ticket selling tests, roleplay etc. This would be at the end of January at an as yet unconfimed destination.

If got through that then on to a medical and job offer.

The start date was 11/3/2014 with no leeway whatsoever. If you could not make this start date you had to withdraw your application.

I have to give at least 8 weeks due to my length of service, unless I broke my contract with possible legal repercussions, it was impossible to make that date bearing in mind the medical would not take place til early February at the earliest. Application duly withdrawn with a polite e-mail to First Group explaining why..... again no reply !!!!!

So two days (poss 3) booked off work with petrol/rail fare from York to Newcastle and back and then unspecified destination (Manchester ?) with the possibility of a job offer at the end paying about £2,000 more than now but with early/late starts and Sunday and Bank hols.

I would be happy to do the above as am quite flexible, but it appears you have to alter your existing work life and be able to serve very little notice and have spare money to get to all these places to get on. I guess from their point of view it shows commitment if you can juggle your work/family life at short notice but the practicalities for a lot of folk, like you and me are somewhat different.

I wish you luck for future but I think it's the end of the line for me....... Sorry, I'll get me coat........ !!

 

[Mattm123]

Going back to the original subject of XC. My advice would be stay clear of them. There are many other operators to get a position with. I worked for Xc for six years and truely hated it. They have no management skills at all. I now work for a very good TOC as a guard.

 

[deltic]

Sorry to hear you guys have not been successful to date - hope something comes along soon.

Very naive question - are you saying the TOCs and FOCs dont even pay your rail fare to interview? Seems utterly bizarre - cant recall ever going to any interview where the potential employer doesnt pay travel expenses - even managed to get one to pay a first class fare once!

 

[grid56126]

Just a couple of points.

I cannot believe, no matter what rumours abound, that XC would waste their staff's time running interviews when there is not a genuine reason so to do. Despite these opinions there are very few managers who are able to afford that sort of time to muck about with!

I can understand a TOC offering free travel on their services to interviews using their own companies trains (mine does), but what happens when a person comes from a location not served by that TOC? I think I would struggle to find any job external to the rail industry where financial assistance is offered to get a candidate to the venue. I rather suspect the most any other company / industry will ever offer is a cup of tea or coffee. In fact there are some industries that charge you to train with them!

As part of my role I have been involved in the interview process (for another TOC I hasten to add) and my involvement was very much at the last part, effectively final interview / decision making. I have seen an amazing array of candidates ranging from the truly bewilderingly uninterested to the overly confident and everything in between. Interviewing can be hugely rewarding, especially when you get to see the results of your work coming to fruition when people are trained up and doing the job to a high standard.

The style of interviews changes so much and so quickly now that I do have an awful lot of sympathy for people who have been in employment for a long time and are looking to move on. My current employer offers and interview skills course for those in that exact situation to offer guidance. The only problem is that these courses are, by their nature, only open to existing staff so in the case of guy_in_wales not much use.

It's good to see a lot of advice offered here by those that have been through the process


Grid

 

[NI 271]

Very naive question - are you saying the TOCs and FOCs dont even pay your rail fare to interview? Seems utterly bizarre - cant recall ever going to any interview where the potential employer doesnt pay travel expenses - even managed to get one to pay a first class fare once!

I've had four interviews for driver positions, as well as trips to assessment centres at Doncaster and Watford, never once have I expected travel to be paid for (none have), it strikes me as quite bizarre that anyone would. These aren't positions where the employer is desperate, hundreds of applicants for each position means they're never going to have to pay for anything other than assessments, although I do understand some TOCs will provide a warrant to allow travel on their own services.

And to at60 and Razor1967, I had to turn down an invite to an assessment centre late last year, as it would have meant two days off work, a night in a hotel and either £100 in diesel or £180 in train fares, none of which I could afford. If that's the case, surely you just write it off and move on to the next opportunity?

That's what I did - yet a couple of weeks later I was offered an interview with the same company and they're now my employer. And I'm on the brink of losing my house, yet still taking a £10k pay cut for a while. If you really want the job, you make sacrifices, sometimes big ones.

 

[fowler9]

I've had four interviews for driver positions, as well as trips to assessment centres at Doncaster and Watford, never once have I expected travel to be paid for (none have), it strikes me as quite bizarre that anyone would. These aren't positions where the employer is desperate, hundreds of applicants for each position means they're never going to have to pay for anything other than assessments, although I do understand some TOCs will provide a warrant to allow travel on their own services.

And to at60 and Razor1967, I had to turn down an invite to an assessment centre late last year, as it would have meant two days off work, a night in a hotel and either £100 in diesel or £180 in train fares, none of which I could afford. If that's the case, surely you just write it off and move on to the next opportunity?

That's what I did - yet a couple of weeks later I was offered an interview with the same company and they're now my employer. And I'm on the brink of losing my house, yet still taking a £10k pay cut for a while. If you really want the job, you make sacrifices, sometimes big ones.[/QUOTE

Good on you for sticking with your dreams. That said for a ten grand pay cut and nearly loosing my home I'd want to be an astronaut or a fighter pilot.

 

[guy_in_wales]

Wow! Thanks for all the comments. Bought some discuss here . (even going off track - sorry the pun)

In the days of BR, you were sent a ticket (usually a blue cardboard one) to attend a interview. Of course, things change and move on.

Lets be honest only 2 or 3 people really know the truth regarding my interview day, and we can only surmise what went on.
However, we were told that there wasn't a position for RSM at Bristol, although Management said they could have one. This could be dealt with in a number of ways at local level, including internal, using other station coverage, and or overtime.

grid56126.
Your points are interesting; I have done recruitment for airline cabin crew. I had the pleasure of re writing the interview day as well. It was very interesting I have to admit, from reading their application form and looking at the photographs. Some real eye openers with those!!! (some bordering pornographic and whilst funny, somewhat worrying that someone thinks that's acceptable for a job application)
The interview day would have cost XC trains very little, as they have a building at Bristol Temple Meads. The HR person just pops down on the train from Birmingham for couple of hours. They could also deal with other issues whilst at the station (clue). A half hearted interview done and back to HQ.
Of course, employers can do as they please, and I've attended some great interviews to some bordering a joke. The day was awkward, as we were a small group of guys, with 2 non shows, mixed with the company employees in their restroom. I feel that when the group sat down in the interview/training room, before sitting the tests a quick, introduce yourself would have worked wonders. Unfortunately, we got a quick job description asked if we had any questions, with one being asked, then the tests. Thank you and Good bye.
I'm lucky in the fact that working for the UK major airline we have all these courses and interview help workshops, but I wasn't able to show very much for those skills during the recent interview.

I have a job which most people would like, and I still enjoy. I'm lucky. As for the age issue which has been brought up, that should not be an issue. I'm 50 this year. I don't feel an age, and some folk think I'm early 40's with kind peeps thinking I'm late 30's. So, go for it. If you wanna do a job enough, don't give up. The airline I work for takes people on in their later years, from all walks of life. Teachers, Police Officers, Rail workers. Working for 3 different airlines over the last 26 years, it took 3 attempts to get into the major one. An interview is a 2 way process, and whilst you can ask for feed back, you too can give feed back. Of course, professionally, and well thought out. They may or may not take notice, but be positive and don't sound bitter.
For the guards job and all the tec jargon, I would have commented how would joe public expect to know that? I could blind with science with GPU, APU, and as this is rail, RUB, TSUB, 1800's LOL


Moving on, and another interview this week..

 

[fowler9]

I think that the problem is that no matter what parts of the press and the government say the jobs market is as tough as it has been for years in most of the country. I have been lucky enough to start a new job today and was actually lucky enough to be offered a permanent contract. Only one other person out of 10 was offered permanent. From what I can tell a lot of my job offer was probably down to the fact I had previously done an almost identical job. As such given the current job market employers are always going to take on people who can already talk the talk which is a shame as I don't think they are always the best. (I am of course! Ha ha).

By the way your career sounds interesting, I absolutely love flying. Which airlines have you worked for? No worries if you can't say. I know it is a big no no to tell people where I work now.