What is wrong with CrossCountry?

[Goatboy]

My idea would be after 1930 only run hourly along Edinburgh-Plymouth

This service is only hourly anyway - and the last Edinburgh to Plymouth leaves quite some time before 19:30!

 

[TheWalrus]

I know I just didn't make myself clear. I meant along the route. Ie after 1930 no Newcastle-Readings or Manchester-Bristols just have the one tph over the core section of the route.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

Why do you think that?

 

[TheWalrus]

If the loadings are light in the evening it may be worth reducing the service level to 1 tph to refuce costs.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

And if the trains are busy?

 

[edwin_m]

Would save a bit of cost but the peak time service determines the fleet size and the majority of the costs. In fact having frequent services into the evening provides an oportunity to offer some cheap (or at least less expensive) tickets and lighten the load on the busiest times a little.

 

[FenMan]

Occasionally I need to travel from home to Birmingham via Reading using XC. It doesn't cross my mind to look at XC's through fare, or their advances, as a split will be cheaper 99.9% of the time with no loss of flexibility.

XC's pricing feeds off the ignorance of their customer base, but that cannot be a long term strategy. Once a passenger discovers how to save significant sums travelling on a XC route, what would motivate them to bother looking at the through fares ever again?

 

[Cherry_Picker]

Ignorance is a renewable resource. Always has been, always will be.

 

[MCW]

cross country suck because there is only one train per hour linking leicester to east anglia with destinations like Ely, Cambridge etc. Also they suck because they use 2 car turbofarts for the birmingham stanstead services which at the best of times is not adequate enough at peak hours...

And the turbofarts have no power sockets for my phone...

apart from that they are awesome.

 

[Goatboy]

cross country suck because there is only one train per hour linking leicester to east anglia with destinations like Ely, Cambridge etc. Also they suck because they use 2 car turbofarts for the birmingham stanstead services which at the best of times is not adequate enough at peak hours...

And the turbofarts have no power sockets for my phone...

apart from that they are awesome.

Well that certainly sounds like an intelligent, educated and well considered appraisal.

So, in summary then, they suck except for the bit where they are awesome. Inspiring stuff.

 

[SussexSpotter]

cross country suck because there is only one train per hour linking leicester to east anglia with destinations like Ely, Cambridge etc. Also they suck because they use 2 car turbofarts for the birmingham stanstead services which at the best of times is not adequate enough at peak hours...

And the turbofarts have no power sockets for my phone...

apart from that they are awesome.

The fact the turbostar's have no sockets for mobile phones is probably the least of XC's worries.....and one of the trivial things when it comes to the ''real'' problems with the franchise :roll:

 

[1e10]

Occasionally I need to travel from home to Birmingham via Reading using XC. It doesn't cross my mind to look at XC's through fare, or their advances, as a split will be cheaper 99.9% of the time with no loss of flexibility.

XC's pricing feeds off the ignorance of their customer base, but that cannot be a long term strategy. Once a passenger discovers how to save significant sums travelling on a XC route, what would motivate them to bother looking at the through fares ever again?

Are they any savings to be made by splitting tickets when travelling between Bristol Temple Meads and Exeter St Davids, Torquay or Paignton?

 

[Sidious]

may we assume the stinking bog syndrome of XC is over?

I travelled on on in 25 degree heat the other day and the smell of the toilets was absolutely vile throughout the train.

People were complaining to the conductor about the smell. Of course there is nothing he can do, but it is disgusting.

 

[HowardGWR]

I travelled on on in 25 degree heat the other day and the smell of the toilets was absolutely vile throughout the train.

People were complaining to the conductor about the smell. Of course there is nothing he can do, but it is disgusting.

Anyone know why this is so on XC 'voyagers' and not on Virgin? Judging by foregoing correspondence, is it a case for taking over by DOR? Perhaps it's because the services do not go to London (so no use to MPs?).

 

[Manchester77]

The toilets on Virgin Voyagers do smell, its just you don't hear people moaning as much. And really? Smelly toilets the case for a DoR takeover :roll:

 

[ainsworth74]

Anyone know why this is so on XC 'voyagers' and not on Virgin? Judging by foregoing correspondence, is it a case for taking over by DOR? Perhaps it's because the services do not go to London (so no use to MPs?).

There is a way of fixing (or at least reducing the scale of the problem) with toilet smells, I believe it's do with treating some pipework or similar. Eitherway VT do it regularly and XC do not therefore it remains a problem on XC.

As for DOR taking over, why?

 

[tsr]

There is a way of fixing (or at least reducing the scale of the problem) with toilet smells, I believe it's do with treating some pipework or similar. Eitherway VT do it regularly and XC do not therefore it remains a problem on XC.

I believe it's something to do with preventing the exhausts from heating up the toilet ventilation or sewage (?) pipes. I did once know more, but sadly I've forgotten!

 

[HowardGWR]

There is a way of fixing (or at least reducing the scale of the problem) with toilet smells, I believe it's do with treating some pipework or similar. Eitherway VT do it regularly and XC do not therefore it remains a problem on XC.

As for DOR taking over, why?

I did not suggest they should lose the franchise just because of the toilets (although what has been written here is unacceptable - if it were a restaurant business, it would now be closed down) but the other posters mentioned the non-entrepreneurial performance generally, which I thought was supposed to be the strength of franchising. Perhaps the ORR could issue a warning. I suppose that pax are just putting up with it and not complaining?

 

[1e10]

What does pax stand for?

 

[ainsworth74]

Perhaps the ORR could issue a warning.

Issue a warning for what? In what way are they not in compliance or risk incompliance with their franchise agreement?

What does pax stand for?

It's short form for passenger.

 

[TheWalrus]

If they are busy obviously you keep them!

DOR takeover may not necessarily be a bad thing, they seem to have done well with the East Coast franchise.

 

[ainsworth74]

Perhaps but on what basis would you terminate the XC franchise? Are they in breach of their contract in some way?

 

[HowardGWR]

What does pax stand for?

short for Passengers (travel trade jargon)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Perhaps but on what basis would you terminate the XC franchise? Are they in breach of their contract in some way?

Well, you seem to know, but I would suggest that if hygienic facilities are not part of franchise agreements then they certainly should be. Somebody mentioned piping. I just thought in my innocence that a U bend is usually a good idea for WCs. Old Crapper was more up to date than our train designers it would seem.

 

[HSTEd]

One way to reduce crowded on the core of the network might be to merge the Manchester-South Coast trains with the Manchester Airport-Newcastle trains once TPE North and Electric Spine electrification is completed. Probably northern hub too.

Then you could run 110mph EMUs on Newcastle-South Coast via Manchester diagrams which will lure low-cost travel time insensitive passengers away. (At 2tph).

 

[ainsworth74]

Well, you seem to know, but I would suggest that if hygienic facilities are not part of franchise agreements then they certainly should be. Somebody mentioned piping. I just thought in my innocence that a U bend is usually a good idea for WCs. Old Crapper was more up to date than our train designers it would seem.

In what way are they unhygienic? It's a smell not a contamination of the toilet or saloon. I've been on trains where the toilets don't smell but they were far dirtier than a Voyager vestibule that was smelling! Anyway I don't know if there's anything specific around hygiene in the franchise agreement, but you're welcome to check it

I'm not sure if they have U bends as the contents of the the bowl would are sucked into a retention tank and I ain't a train toilet engineer! But anyway the piping in question isn't related to the toilet itself but the retention tank. I think an AC intake was mounted to close to the tank or something along those lines (probably the engineer that designed the toilet system not talking to the engineer designing the AC and no-one spotting the mistake until it was too late).

 

[corfield]

If that's worth doing, why not do it now ?

Both are DMU services, and a 22X has to have more capacity than a 185 on the busy TP leg ?

 

[ainsworth74]

Both are DMU services, and a 22X has to have more capacity than a 185 on the busy TP leg ?

I'd be surprised if a four-car 220/221 has more capacity than a three-car 185. Indeed I wouldn't be surprised if it had less! Also where are you going to get the extra units from to run this service now?

 

[transmanche]

I'd be surprised if a four-car 220/221 has more capacity than a three-car 185. Indeed I wouldn't be surprised if it had less!

Apparently a 185 has 169 seats (154 std, 15 1st) and a 4-car 220 has 200 seats (174 std, 26 1st).

Also where are you going to get the extra units from to run this service now?

If the TPE route was transferred to XC, it might be suitable for another batch of IEPs. But the Newcastle-Manchester Airport route is due to change to Newcastle-Liverpool. Personally I'd prefer that to be Newcastle-Chester to improve east-west links - as Newcastle is already well connected to the south.

 

[Starmill]

There is a way of fixing (or at least reducing the scale of the problem) with toilet smells, I believe it's do with treating some pipework or similar. Eitherway VT do it regularly and XC do not therefore it remains a problem on XC.

Not been on a Virgin voyager for yonks, but the smell still plagues Pendos!

 

[ainsworth74]

Hmm wonder if they've stopped keeping up with the work then...