What is the point in SPATE boards?

[king_walnut]

I really don't understand why they need to be there, and I definitely don't understand why some are still there several months later.

Sticking a SPATE notice in the late notice case would be a more than adequate way of letting drivers know that the TSR has been lifted. Just seems like an all round complete waste of time, money and effort.

 

[LowLevel]

I really don't understand why they need to be there, and I definitely don't understand why some are still there several months later.

Sticking a SPATE notice in the late notice case would be a more than adequate way of letting drivers know that the TSR has been lifted. Just seems like an all round complete waste of time, money and effort.

If the restriction is SPATEd between a driver booking on and reaching it, they'd be obliged to report the fact that it's missing if they just remove the boards entirely.

Presumably subsequently removing the boards entirely is then a low priority job to be done when someone has time or is working in the area anyway.

 

[ComUtoR]

Sticking a SPATE notice in the late notice case would be a more than adequate way of letting drivers know that the TSR has been lifted.

Once I've booked on. I may not see any notice cases until I've next booked on. (Which may be a couple of weeks)

Just seems like an all round complete waste of time, money and effort.

But adding an extra notice to read is just as inefficient. At my TOC we do get emails where an ESR or TSR has been withdrawn.

You may or may not be aware that the late notice case is also time limited. It should be used for long term information.

 

[choochoochoo]

They are very useful if your depot management hasn't updated the boards.

 

[MadMac]

Possibly related to the Nuneaton crash in 1975 where the warning board lights went out and a driver thought the restriction had been lifted. https://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/documents/DoT_Nuneaton1975.pdf

 

[Javelin_55]

A good chance it's an outcome of Nuneaton.

If the restriction boards simply aren't there, who's to say the wind hasn't blown them away or have otherwise been removed without authority?

SPATEing stops drivers reporting missing boards and slowing down anyway (delaying the train), in case the above has happened.

 

[Railsigns]

What emerged post-Nuneaton in relation to withdrawn TSRs was a practice of leaving the boards in place, but replacing the TSR speed indications with indicators showing the normal line speed. SPATE boards came later.

 

[dk1]

If its advertised in the WON then there has to be a SPATE indicator if the work was not done or completed early. It's as per the rules.

 

[Hadrian]

I assume that I am not alone in needing the acronym SPATE to be translated into english. All explanations welcomed.

 

[skyhigh]

I assume that I am not alone in needing the acronym SPATE to be translated into english. All explanations welcomed.

Speed Previously Advised Terminated Early - I.e. emergency or temporary speed restriction no longer required.

 

[Boodiggy]

Speed Previously Advised Terminated Early - I.e. emergency or temporary speed restriction no longer required.

You can’t spate an ESR. That can be removed when the reason it it when on for has been correct (like a rail defect) so may only be on for a day. If it is on for a length of time it should become a TSR published in the WON.

 

[Annetts key]

You can’t spate an ESR. That can be removed when the reason it it when on for has been correct (like a rail defect) so may only be on for a day. If it is on for a length of time it should become a TSR published in the WON.

Not entirely true. On an ATP fitted area, any ESR where the ATP has already been adjusted has to stay in place until arrangements have been made for the ATP to be adjusted back to line speed. Until then, it can’t be SPATED or removed.

 

[66701GBRF]

Sticking a SPATE notice in the late notice case would be a more than adequate way of letting drivers know that the TSR has been lifted. Just seems like an all round complete waste of time, money and effort.

Not every driver will see the late notice case. Not every company operates a late notice case.

 

[Dr Hoo]

Speed Previously Advised Terminated Early - I.e. emergency or temporary speed restriction no longer required.

SPATE was never an acronym, abbreviation or contraction. It was a 'Code Word' from the old standard telegraphic code book.

Strictly it meant "Trains between the following points may run at ordinary speed on and after the date named. Withdraw restriction and reply".

As with many Code Words (such as CAPE for cancelled) it has found its way into railway jargon and people have made up their own 'definitions' or origins.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

SPATE was never an acronym, abbreviation or contraction. It was a 'Code Word' from the old standard telegraphic code book.

Strictly it meant "Trains between the following points may run at ordinary speed on and after the date named. Withdraw restriction and reply".

As with many Code Words (such as CAPE for cancelled) it has found its way into railway jargon and people have made up their own 'definitions' or origins.

What was the original telegraphic codeword meaning of 'SPATE', before the railway 'backronym' came into being?

 

[Dr Hoo]

What was the original telegraphic codeword meaning of 'SPATE', before the railway 'backronym' came into being?

As already quoted from the Code Book:

"Trains between the following points may run at ordinary speed on and after the date named. Withdraw restriction and reply"

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Thanks for clarifying.

 

[Hadrian]

Thank you for the explanation.

I had forgotten SPATE, and many other Telegraphic Code words, in the 49 years since I last regularly used them.