What improvements would you make if the railways were built today?

[Schweir]

Deliberately leaving this quite broad, can include infrastructure, timetabling, train stock etc...

General improvements (i.e improvements that could take place all over the county) are preferred to specific improvements (i.e removing X amount of trees on the X line to improve visibility). Of course still throw these in too if you think they are relevant

A few ideas could be:
- No curved platforms
- Straighter lines
- No level crossings

I am sure there are many, many more!

 

[underbank]

More stations at retail parks, park n ride car parks, etc.

 

[Schweir]

More stations at retail parks, park n ride car parks, etc.

Nice idea, I'm sure many people would prefer to get a train as part of the park and ride rather than a bus.

 

[furnessvale]

USA loading gauge for doublestack freight and comfortable double deck passengers.

 

[PeterC]

USA loading gauge for doublestack freight and comfortable double deck passengers.

Certainly capacity for doublestack freight, there is less value in double deck coaches given the frequency and need for short dwell times in UK passenger services.

With higher capacity freight vehicles Channel Tunnel lorry traffic could be rail hauled to points north of the Thames rather than dumping it all onto the Kentish road system.

 

[furnessvale]

Certainly capacity for doublestack freight, there is less value in double deck coaches given the frequency and need for short dwell times in UK passenger services.

With higher capacity freight vehicles Channel Tunnel lorry traffic could be rail hauled to points north of the Thames rather than dumping it all onto the Kentish road system.

Agreed,but we are talking new build from scratch. How about double deck platforms to match the trains, complete with platform edge doors for safety. Double the capacity and reduced land take in major cities.

 

[Alex Smith]

More transport interchanges with adequate connection times between different forms of public transport
High speed lines between Plymouth, Exeter, Bristol and Southampton, Portsmouth and Brighton via London up through the current West and East Coast routes covering Birmingham, Manchester, Preston to Glasgow and Leicester Nottingham/Derby, Sheffield, Leeds, York, Newcastle to Edinburgh
East-West rail link with the trunk route through Cambridge, Bedford, Oxford
Rail Tunnel via The Irish Sea serving Dublin and Belfast

 

[Lucan]

2 metre track gauge and Channel Tunnel loading gauge (at least)

 

[jopsuk]

So, full manifesto:
2m track gauge
Channel Tunnel Shuttle loading gauge
25kV on all lines
Flat, straight, level platforms with level boarding (including gap fillers to account for kinematic clearance)
Standard length passenger vehicles with limited door positions to allow platform edge gating
Double deck platforms at key stations and on metro routes.
500m Intercity platforms, 250m Suburban and "Fast metro" (ie crossrail), 125m for underground/stopping metro.

here's the big one:
Metro and Suburban rail to be fully sub surface. Essentially weatherproof.

 

[broadgage]

A larger loading gauge, and possibly a wider track gauge also.
Possibly three different standards regarding safety features according to the type of line, so as to ensure high standards on fast and busy main lines, but some relaxation for secondary or branch routes. For example

Main lines routes----No level crossings, no curved platforms, signalled with at LEAST 4 aspect signals, gradients no worse than one in 100, securely fenced, no tight curves. Generally fit for 200MPH operation, not throughout but wherever possible. Must be fitted with TPWS or some equivalent to protect against driver error.

Secondary routes------Level crossings to be avoided as far as possible, but permitted if gated and the gates preferably interlocked with signals, curved platforms permitted within reason. Two aspect signalling as a minimum. Route to be fenced, gradient no worse than one in 40. Generally fit for 80MPH operation, not throughout but in general.

Minor routes--------Somewhat like a light railway order on todays railway. General line speed up to 40MPH, Less when required. Level crossings permitted, occupation crossings permitted, basic fencing. Signalling not essential if the line can be worked without it. No need for TPWS or similar.
Heritage, old or vintage traction permitted, and anything new for test purposes.

Note that all three categories of route would have identical loading gauge and track gauge so as to permit of through running. The differences being in infrastructure for different types of use.

 

[BantamMenace]

Electrification from day one, grade separate all major junctions, clearly categorised intercity-regional-local lines/services, stations designed with extension in mind.

 

[xotGD]

How about ownership of the infrastructure, ownership of the rolling stock and operation of train services by a single publicly owned organisation.

Perhaps it could be called something like 'British Rail'?

 

[GreatAuk]

Integrate the different routes better, with a mind to making interchanges, and passing through cities easier. For example station pairs like Bradford Forster Square and Bradford interchange, or Warrington Bank Quay and Warrington Central, would not exist - they would be replaced with a single central station, or at least linked by rail in some way.

 

[furnessvale]

How about ownership of the infrastructure, ownership of the rolling stock and operation of train services by a single publicly owned organisation.

Perhaps it could be called something like 'British Rail'?

Well that's just killed any hope of this new system being a success!

 

[billio]

...
Secondary routes------ ... Generally fit for 80MPH operation, not throughout but in general.

Minor routes-------- ... General line speed up to 40MPH, Less when required.

I don't think you are right with regard to speed. Travel time is an important factor in a travellers choice of the train or their car. Low speeds also give the railways a poor image. Target speeds should be at least 100 mph on secondary routes and 70 mph on minor routes unless their is some other factor that impacts on speed, for example short distances between stations.

 

[Kneedown]

signalled with at LEAST 4 aspect signals, gradients no worse than one in 100, securely fenced, no tight curves. Generally fit for 200MPH operation, not throughout but wherever possible.

4 aspect signalling is most certainly not suitable for 200mph operation.
Anything over 125mph these days full ERTMS is the way forward.

 

[Altfish]

here's the big one:
Metro and Suburban rail to be fully sub surface. Essentially weatherproof.

Please no!
Give me surface trams rather than underground any day.

 

[Altfish]

Integrate the different routes better, with a mind to making interchanges, and passing through cities easier. For example station pairs like Bradford Forster Square and Bradford interchange, or Warrington Bank Quay and Warrington Central, would not exist - they would be replaced with a single central station, or at least linked by rail in some way.

Taking that further still, what about the big cities, even London. Have one intercity station like the Berlin Station.

 

[RSA BOB]

No to Fencing on the railway like the rest of the world they don,t seam to bother them like us in South Africa.

 

[B&I]

The entire town and country planning system realigned on the basis thatbthete will be a presumption against any substantial development more than a certain walking distance from rail or tramway.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

No -or very limited terminus stations particularly London. In effect you would have Crossrail, 1,2,3,4, 5, and possibly 6

 

[muddythefish]

No terminal stations in London - or anywhere else for that matter.

 

[furnessvale]

No terminal stations in London - or anywhere else for that matter.

What? Even at Thurso or Penzance or Blackpool or.........?

 

[muddythefish]

What? Even at Thurso or Penzance or Blackpool or.........?

Obviously not, but the network would be so much better if the London stations were through stations.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

What? Even at Thurso or Penzance or Blackpool or.........?

Especially Blackpool - circular route south to central to north and back to K&W

 

[Warwick]

How about ownership of the infrastructure, ownership of the rolling stock and operation of train services by a single publicly owned organisation.

Perhaps it could be called something like 'British Rail'?

Are rose-tinted spectacles available on the National Health?

 

[cuccir]

Triple track as standard, quadruple track much more widespread. Creates opportunities for stopping services and resilience when trains break down.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Build to UIC gauge. Level boarding to low platforms throughout, Swiss style (making stations cheaper so we can open more new ones later).

 

[DarloRich]

It would be VERY difficult to build a railway network from scratch in an island as small and congested as Great Britain in 2018. Imagine the NIMBYS! The network wouldn't look anything like the network we have today and I suspect it would be a lot smaller.

• High Speed trunk network serving major towns and cities. Generally north - south axis but with several E-W connections at key points.
• Connections into HS network from various provincial towns where economics dictate a service but not an HS service
• Current track gauge but with much wider loading gauge to allow for duplex trains were needed
• All track to be as straight and fast as possible. Lots would have to be underground
• All electrified to 25kv OHLE
• SE/London commuter network along similar lines but wider gauge allows for bigger trains (Majority would have to be underground in London)
• Several cross London underground rail routes ( Crossrail x many - only way to serve a 21st century city)
• Similar (but smaller) commuter networks in each major city - unsure if light or heavy rail (up to local authorities to decide?) but all focused on the HS station
• Integration with bus and tram
• One London terminus/hub for HS services and commuter/tube interchange. This may have to be underground#
• Commuter networks to run through London with non terminus stations
• One type of HS train
• One type of commuter train
• One type of duplex train
• The most modern signalling system possible - not what we have today!
• UK properly connected into a EURO high speed network

What don't we have:

• Stupid branch lines serving tiny, one horse villages.
• Lots of places with stations today aren't going to have one
• Lots of lines the enthusiast like wont exist ( S&C, Wales, West Highlands etc)
• services will be a lot different and we will employ fewer people.
• Freight?

Freight would be interesting. If railway came to England today there would be no market share for them to protect & a vast infrastructure cost required for them to win any of that market share. Would freight even be a consideration?
Do we assume that the underground exists or not?

 

[furnessvale]

It would be VERY difficult to build a railway network from scratch in an island as small and congested as Great Britain in 2018. Imagine the NIMBYS! The network wouldn't look anything like the network we have today and I suspect it would be a lot smaller.
<SNIP>
Freight would be interesting. If railway came to England today there would be no market share for them to protect & a vast infrastructure cost required for them to win any of that market share. Would freight even be a consideration?
Do we assume that the underground exists or not?

This thread is now well into fantasy land but let's run with it a while.

Given the market share of passenger rail, the comment applied to freight would equally apply to passenger, and no new railways of any sort would be built. Remember, depending on how the figures are calculated, the market share of railfreight is 9% to as much as 15%. Passenger rail market share can be estimated as low as 5%.

Turning the issue completely on its head, if private motor cars did not exist, it would be a brave Minister for Transport who authorised their introduction in the UK, after being advised that this new invention would directly kill ca 1500 people pa, and indirectly kill by pollution etc. ca another 50,000.