What improvements should be made to the Coryton line?

[CapitalStar378]

Interesting article on Wales Online by Prof. Mark Barry, who originally proposed the Metro project. He rightly asserts that leaving the Coryton & City lines at 2tph is not going to entice people out of their cars. Frustratingly, a passing loop and extra platform at Rhiwbina were de-scoped from the Coryton line, which would not have cost a lot in the grand scheme of things and would have allowed an increased frequency.

Mark Barry article

Anyone who knows just a little about transport planning, passenger behaviours and the geography of Cardiff, will quickly spot that offering a service every 30 minutes for trips of probably less than 20 minutes, is not going to attract passengers. Whilst people are generally happier to wait longer for longer trips - so 30 minutes for a journey of an hour or more - they are less inclined to do so for shorter trips.

This reality will apply to all the stations on the Coryton and City lines in Cardiff, that will, as far as the passenger is concerned, see no meaningful improvement in services when Metro is operating compared with today - so at Danescourt, Fairwater, Waungron, Ninian Park, Birchgrove, Rhiwbina, Whitchurch, Coryton, Ty Glas, etc). It also makes no sense to be offering 2tph at these station whilst at the same time operating 10tph through Llandaff and Cathays to Queen Street....

Moderator note: for further discussion regarding potential improvements to the Coryton line, please see the following thread:

What improvements should be made to the Coryton line?

Interesting article on Wales Online by Prof. Mark Barry, who originally proposed the Metro project. He rightly asserts that leaving the Coryton & City lines at 2tph is not going to entice people out of their cars. Frustratingly, a passing loop and extra platform at Rhiwbina were de-scoped from...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[Envoy]

Mark Barry is right. All this investment in new rolling stock and electrification yet the City Line and Coryton line will only have a train every 30 minutes serving the densely populated Cardiff suburbs. This is all has a knock on effect regarding taking main line trains. Who wants to come off the City line with a ticket to Bristol Parkway only to see the London train departing as you arrive and then face a 26 minute wait for the next one. In those 26 minutes by car you could be approaching the Severn Bridge - even allowing for those ridiculous 50 mph speed limits on the Newport section of the M4.

They need to sort out the capacity constraint at Cardiff West Junction as a top priority. The second priority must be to connect the Coryton Line with Radyr and create a City Circle.

 

[Dr Day]

They need to sort out the capacity constraint at Cardiff West Junction as a top priority.

Only if heavy rail is retained on the City Line - as a tram-train it can come off the existing infrastructure if necessary which may be a lot cheaper, and become a 'proper tram' to Cardiff Bay.

The second priority must be to connect the Coryton Line with Radyr and create a City Circle.

Why? It would have to cross the Cardiff Central-Pontypridd route, grade-separated given the intensity of service. Whilst it looks neat on a map is there the demand for the cross-Radyr movements that couldn't be accommodated by other modes? Could Heath-Queen Street- Central cope with a 'turn up and go' service on the circle on top of the Rhymney and Pontypridd frequencies, or would that section need to be diverted off the heavy rail network too?

 

[Envoy]

Only if heavy rail is retained on the City Line - as a tram-train it can come off the existing infrastructure if necessary which may be a lot cheaper, and become a 'proper tram' to Cardiff Bay.


Why? It would have to cross the Cardiff Central-Pontypridd route, grade-separated given the intensity of service. Whilst it looks neat on a map is there the demand for the cross-Radyr movements that couldn't be accommodated by other modes? Could Heath-Queen Street- Central cope with a 'turn up and go' service on the circle on top of the Rhymney and Pontypridd frequencies, or would that section need to be diverted off the heavy rail network too?

Trains on the City Line need to stay on the Network Rail lines to get across the Taff Bridge as going on-street would be a disaster in my opinion. Sure, they could come off the Taff Bridge and then head down to where the car park is on the south side of the Central Station before going to connect with the Bay line.

Connecting Coryton with the Taff Valley lines at Radyr, means that someone in say Rhiwbeina can get over to Danescourt for example, without having to go all the way around via Central. It also means that by changing at Radyr, people coming down from the Central valleys (Pontypridd etc) can get over to say Heath Halt without having to go all the way to Central and then back north again. It makes the system a much more attractive proposition and hence reduces the likelihood of people using cars.

 

[John R]

Coryton to Radyr is speculative. Nothing committed yet, not even the short extension westward from Coryton to the new Velindre Hospital site, which is more likely.

 

[Bob Price]

Coryton to Radyr is speculative. Nothing committed yet, not even the short extension westward from Coryton to the new Velindre Hospital site, which is more likely.

To be fair the track bed still exists for that bit but beyond that would take some major work.

 

[hilly]

The trackbed is still there up to the rear of McDonald’s - from there there is the small matter of a drop in height of around 100 feet, the m4 motorway directly ahead and the river taff to cross before joining the line to radyr - the best place to join would be around the gelynis farm crossing

 

[geoffk]

The trackbed is still there up to the rear of McDonald’s - from there there is the small matter of a drop in height of around 100 feet, the m4 motorway directly ahead and the river taff to cross before joining the line to radyr - the best place to join would be around the gelynis farm crossing

Is it possible to extend to an M4 Parkway? As the stations are so close together this branch seems ideal for tram conversion. Weren't there four tracks originally from Heath Jn to Queen St?

 

[daodao]

Interesting article on Wales Online by Prof. Mark Barry, who originally proposed the Metro project. He rightly asserts that leaving the Coryton & City lines at 2tph is not going to entice people out of their cars. Frustratingly, a passing loop and extra platform at Rhiwbina were de-scoped from the Coryton line, which would not have cost a lot in the grand scheme of things and would have allowed an increased frequency.

Whilst it looks neat on a map is there the demand for the cross-Radyr movements that couldn't be accommodated by other modes?

Connecting Coryton with the Taff Valley lines at Radyr, means that someone in say Rhiwbeina can get over to Danescourt for example, without having to go all the way around via Central. It also means that by changing at Radyr, people coming down from the Central valleys (Pontypridd etc) can get over to say Heath Halt without having to go all the way to Central and then back north again. It makes the system a much more attractive proposition and hence reduces the likelihood of people using cars.

As a former regular user of the Coryton branch for over 20 years (I used to live in a block of flats built on the site of the former goods yard at Whitchurch station), I should like to make the following points:

• The main role of the line, which only narrowly survived the Beeching cuts, is to provide a fast route free of traffic congestion from the relatively affluent North Cardiff suburbs directly into central Cardiff, where both stations (Queen Street and Central) are well-sited (unlike by contrast Bristol Temple Meads or Cambridge).
• There has been speculation about joining Coryton and Radyr for many years, from before the enhanced "City Line" service was introduced in late 1987. However it would be expensive and difficult to construct as it would need to cross the Taff Valley with a major viaduct at a significant height.
• There is little need for inter-suburb connections, for example I never had any reason to travel to Danescourt. The only "destinations" on the Coryton branch are Heath Low Level, for the University Hospital of Wales (UHW) and Ty Glas, for the light industrial estate.
• Unfortunately, both Heath stations are poorly sited for UHW, which is a brisk 15 minute walk across Heath Park (and longer at night). I only knew one person (a Professor of Medical Biochemistry at University of Wales College of Medicine) who did on occasion use the line for commuting to UHW, from Coryton when he lived briefly close to that station. However, it was quicker for me to walk along Manor Way when I worked at UHW.
• Given the poor siting of Heath Low Level, extending the line to Radyr is not likely to attract significant number of hospital staff/visitors/patients from the Valleys to use it. The express buses from Pontypridd/Merthyr and beyond (T4) and Gwaunmiskin (400), and the stopping service from Maerdy (132), call at Birchgrove (Cross Inn), no more than a 10 minute walk from the hospital.
• The 30 minute daytime frequency introduced in late 1987 was a great improvement over the previous post-Beeching service of trains just at morning and evening peaks and around the middle of the day. The evening hourly service that was introduced then was of some personal use, but that and the hourly Sunday service (which only started at 2 pm) was poorly patronised and withdrawn after a couple of years, although the Mon-Sat evening hourly service has been re-introduced since I left Cardiff in 2005.
• It is unfortunate that the passing loop and extra platform at Rhiwbina were de-scoped from the Metro scheme at an early stage, as it may have improved punctuality, and a 15 minute daytime frequency with evening and Sunday trains every 30 minutes would have been a welcome enhancement, given that many of the competing bus service frequencies are better. I last used the service on a visit to Cardiff a few years ago to attend a scientific meeting held at Cardiff Bay when staying in North Cardiff, and the contrast in peak hour usage (the trains were crush-loaded) compared to my memories of usage pre-2005 was noticeable.
• Train fares need to be competitive. My recollection is that the return fares were good value, but not single fares, and the lack of an evening service for most of the time I lived in Cardiff was a disincentive to using the train to go into "town" if one needed to use the bus to return home.

 

[CapitalStar378]

I'm not sure that connecting Coryton to Taff's Well is that important compared to improving both City lines. I always wondered if running trains through any new link via Coryton to Cardiff would work, but I think the number of stops would be prohibitive for through passengers who would choose a train via a quicker route.

Improvements TfW should consider include;
* Passing loop(s) on the Coryton line to increase frequencies
* Bring forward the M4 park & ride station on an extension from Coryton (this would make a positive difference to car use in the city centre)
* Cardiff West junction improvements to increase frequency on the City line

Frequency increases are key as it's been proved on London Overground that this attracts many more users. It seems odd to introduce brand new 3 or 4 car trains and have no other ambition for the lines. I think the whole Metro branding and implementation will create more interest in rail travel, but this won't cut it on Cardiff suburban routes if there is a 30 minute service.

 

[anthony263]

Extending to Radyr is a must. A complete circle line will be great for Cardiff and the suburbs. Branch needs double tracking at Rhiwbina and possibly Coryton too.

Do this and run 4tph in each direction

 

[daodao]

Extending to Radyr is a must. A complete circle line will be great for Cardiff and the suburbs. Branch needs double tracking at Rhiwbina and possibly Coryton too.

IMO, that would be an expensive white elephant. A short extension beyond Coryton to serve the new Velindre Hospital, and possibly an M4/A470 park and ride station near Asda, might possibly be justified, as would a passing loop alongside Caedelyn Park.