What If Virgin won East Coast??

[tbtc]

If Virgin won the ECML franchise then we'd see IEPs painted in red and silver - that's about the only significant difference.

I don't think current East Coast need take any lectures on railway management from Branson. Tis funny how the state owned operator knows how to return a surplus

The ECML franchise should always be a profitable one (in the way that the W&B should always be a loss making one).

GNER paid a premium, NXEC paid a premium, the current DOR are paying a premium - the fact that there's a surplus is nothing to do with it being "state owned" (in the way that DOR would make a loss if they took over W&B).

 

[The Ham]

If virgin ran ICEC, other than the IEP's which are being ordered to replace the IC125's, they have a choice as to whether they replace the IC225's. Basicly that boils down to:

1. Keep the 225's
2. standardise their fleet and have all IEP's
3. have a mixed fleet and use some other IC EMU's, be that Pendolinos or not

Now that is the case whether it's Virgin or not. Just because a company uses one type of train on one franchise does not mean that they only ever use that type of train, although it can make it more likely. For instance if First got the ICEC and the GW franchises then it is possible that they would go for an all IEP fleet on as many of their IC services as possible.

Now there are advantages of using Pendolinos on ICEC, but then there are advantages of not using them too. It may well depend on how much Virgin actually like them as trains, or whether they just stick with what they have to maintain as standard a fleet as possible.

 

[jon0844]

One for a heated debate

As title suggests, what if?

There would be an end to all wars in the world and everyone would be totally at peace with each other. Such is the power of the Virgin brand.

EOT.

 

[Eccles]

Do I dare raise the question of what IC125 and IC225 ssets would look like in DB Intercity Express livery?!

DB East Coast class 91 by Alternative Railways, on Flickr

Quite nice really!

All that white would probably help the air con in the summer as well...

 

[Requeststop]

One for a heated debate

As title suggests, what if?

Then I'd be flying to Scotland instead of taking the train. I detest the bearded whinger and all his "virgin" companies stand for. Too many issues of complaint with Branson's companies that have remained unresolved. To me he is the equivalent of Ryanair's O'Leer-ey, and Crawl-ey, and I wouldn't trust Branson or his companies as far as I could pee into a force 9 gale.

 

[Beveridges]

I prefer travelling in a HST rather than a Pendo anyway. Pendos still make me travel sick.

So do I as Pendos also make me feel motion sickness. For this reason I find them awful for long journeys and much prefer the HST. I would rather add a few minutes onto the journey than feel sick.

Pendos are not restricted to the Great Bearded One. There is nothing to say DB Schenker won't order tilting Pendolinos if they won the franchise.

 

[Eagle]

South of York tilt isn't really needed though. Doncaster to Peterborough in particular you could easily hit 140 on (indeed wasn't it signalled for such as an experiment when the 225s were introduced?). Of course, Pendos can do 140...

 

[cgcenet]

Didn't Virgin Trains run XC as a separate entity to West Coast so presumably they would do the same and East Coast would compete against West Coast for the end to end custom?

Virgin Trains presented XC and WC (to the customer) as a single integrated operation. All services were branded as "Virgin Trains". The route maps showed both the XC and WC routes with no distinction between the two. The franchises were technically separate businesses, but there was no separate marketing at all (and certainly no competition).

 

[Eagle]

Virgin Trains presented XC and WC as a single integrated operation. All services were branded as "Virgin Trains". The route maps showed both the XC and WC routes with no distinction between the two. The franchises were technically separate businesses, but there was no separate marketing at all (and certainly no competition).

Actually in the early days the trains did have separate "Virgin Trains" and "Virgin XC" branding although it didn't last into the silver livery era. Also the two had their own TOC-specific tickets (e.g. "VXC & Connections"), and also had separate websites.

Besides, it's not the only instance of merged branding. Connex did it with their two franchises which even appeared under the same TOC code in the national timetable, and there was some integrated branding between FGW and FGW Link for the short period it existed.

 

[Bevan Price]

ECML Walk on "unrestricted" fares would probably increase. Leeds to London currently £124.50; Manchester to London £154 (standard class singles).

Probably more manipulation of "off-peak hours" definition on ECML.

Would ECML overhead be robust enough to permit 140 mph running, or would it need to be upgraded (at great expense, no doubt, and with years of disruption to passengers whilst work proceeds) ?

 

[Eagle]

...or would it need to be upgraded (at great expense, no doubt, and with years of disruption to passengers whilst work proceeds)?

Something Virgin are surely used to :P

 

[swt_passenger]

... I know there's a lot of fuss about how people don't want Pendolinos running on the ECML, but the travelling public won't care if it improves the service, so nor will I!

The 'lot of fuss' is more usually caused by people mistakenly thinking that Virgin would automatically use Pendolinos, I think you'll find. In the real world Virgin would either use whatever stock they are told to by DfT, or use whatever stock happens to win the required competitive ITT for a replacement in due course.

 

[gordonthemoron]

If Virgin ran East Coast, there'd be a lot more empty seats, like on Virgin West Coast. This is presumably due to pricing

 

[tbtc]

If Virgin ran East Coast, there'd be a lot more empty seats, like on Virgin West Coast. This is presumably due to pricing

I'm not sure - the two franchises are quite different.

There's a lot more "local" demand north of York (Darlington, Durham, Newcastle etc) than there is north of Preston (Lancaster, Oxenholme, Carlisle etc).

There's also no "local" TOC to serve the middle-distance southern stations (in the way that LM look after most of the Trent Valley stuff), so the ECML operator has to deal with stopping at smaller places like Grantham/ Newark.

I don't think that anyone expected National Express to run NXEC in the way that they ran MML (e.g. introducing Turbostars), so I'm not sure why there's the assumption that Virgin would treat the ECML exactly the same as they've treated the WCML.

 

[ash39]

Whoever wins the franchise, the 225's will be around for a few years yet and they won't be fully repainted as they've just been done, any livery will be a vinyl over the silver/grey probably. Which would work out quite well for Virgin.

 

[Rhydgaled]

Do I dare raise the question of what IC125 and IC225 ssets would look like in DB Intercity Express livery?!

Not as well-done as the IC225 somebody posted earlier, but I've done a DB ICE liveried IC125:

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Not as well-done as the IC225 somebody posted earlier, but I've done a DB ICE liveried IC125:
View attachment 14451

Shouldn't it be in Arriva green?
Sort of vaguely LNER.

 

[route:oxford]

Then I'd be flying to Scotland instead of taking the train. I detest the bearded whinger and all his "virgin" companies stand for. Too many issues of complaint with Branson's companies that have remained unresolved. To me he is the equivalent of Ryanair's O'Leer-ey, and Crawl-ey, and I wouldn't trust Branson or his companies as far as I could pee into a force 9 gale.

Will you be flying Aer-Lingus from Terminal 1 to Edinburgh?

 

[Harbon 1]

I can't see why EC should be taken back for franchising, it seems to be doing rather well in state ownership

 

[Eagle]

I can't see why EC should be taken back for franchising, it seems to be doing rather well in state ownership

Because it'll cost the taxpayer less to reprivatize it. (In theory. Mileage may vary.)

Nationalization of the franchise was conceived from the outset to be temporary. And it shouldn't have lasted this long. The only other nationalized operator, SET, lasted for 29 months.

 

[LexyBoy]

I can't see why EC should be taken back for franchising, it seems to be doing rather well in state ownership

Which is a bit embarrassing for a government promoting private sector enterprise, no?

 

[tbtc]

"Profitable franchise is making a profit" doesn't prove anything in the public/ private debate, much as some would like it to.