What if ULEZ applied to the railway?

[DimTim]

With the expansion of the ULEZ zone today, if this applied to the railway & diesel engines were banned within the ULEZ zone which services would be affected?
I’m aware Marylebone is not electrified & there would be a big issue for freight but which other services would be affected & what further electrification would be required to achieve a total diesel ban.

 

[DoubleO]

Grand Central would not be able to run to King's Cross.

 

[ainsworth74]

Though, of course, the services wouldn't be banned they'd have to pay a charge for not being compliant with the rules.

 

[Benjwri]

Off the top of my head, beyond Chiltern that you have mentioned, GWR’s Greenford service, although the battery trial will start soon, and the GWR sleeper is diesel. There is also EMT services, which are currently diesel 222s, although this is being electrified.

 

[RailWonderer]

Though, of course, the services wouldn't be banned they'd have to pay a charge for not being compliant with the rules.

And then pass that cost onto the traveller with a 1/3 or 1/4 fare hike. Everybody would lose, and the roads would get a lot more congested as driving will become cheaper more often, then the govt would see that having more trains on a line is a better way of mass transport than the motorways and A and B roads and reverse the law - of course not before a lot of lobbying against the change and outcry would take place first.

 

[PGAT]

It’s completely ridiculous. While a diesel train is still diesel it’s much better than hundreds of cars doing the same journey. Any increased fares as a result of this would most likely not go towards electrification but instead become the new normal.

 

[swt_passenger]

SWR Waterloo - Exeter services. SN London Bridge - Uckfield.

 

[SargeNpton]

Voyagers from/to Euston.

 

[Nippy]

Voyagers from/to Euston.

Although, of course, these are in the process of being replaced so won’t be an issue soon.

I used the Metro in Milan recently, 4 hrs parking at the park and ride for €1.50, parking just outside the outer ULEZ. Saved me having to register my car as I couldn’t work out if I needed to or not.

 

[bluenoxid]

There are also the freight and infrastructure trains to consider. 950001 and the flying banana will be charged.

Does one’s Flying Scotsman get charged? - answer below

 

[Mikey C]

£12.50 per unit would hardly break the bank, considering that that would pay for a whole day of travel

 

[bluenoxid]

Does one’s Flying Scotsman get charged?

I’ve answered my own question. As it was built before 1 January 1973, it would be ok as a historic vehicle.

 

[Bletchleyite]

With the expansion of the ULEZ zone today, if this applied to the railway & diesel engines were banned within the ULEZ zone which services would be affected?
I’m aware Marylebone is not electrified & there would be a big issue for freight but which other services would be affected & what further electrification would be required to achieve a total diesel ban.

I am strongly in support of this. All burning of dead dinosaurs should be banned in large cities. And Chiltern needs electrification.

 

[Energy]

With the expansion of the ULEZ zone today, if this applied to the railway & diesel engines were banned within the ULEZ zone which services would be affected?

ULEZ doesn't ban diesel but requires it to be Euro 6.

 

[Trainbike46]

I am strongly in support of this. All burning of dead dinosaurs should be banned in large cities. And Chiltern needs electrification.

Fully agreed here, ideally though it would come in the form of an electrification announcement/plan for chiltern

 

[Snow1964]

£12.50 per unit would hardly break the bank, considering that that would pay for a whole day of travel

But would that be per vehicle, so a 10car train could be £125

Actually the charge is £100 for vehicles over 3.5t, or £300 if doesn't meet euroIV, so train could be nearer £3000

With the expansion of the ULEZ zone today, if this applied to the railway & diesel engines were banned within the ULEZ zone which services would be affected?

GWR and freight operators pass through the Bath LEZ (Bath Spa station is within a Bath LEZ), whilst IETs are fairly modern, the emissions from 158s, 165, 166s is nowhere near.

 

[Norm_D_Ploom]

But would that be per vehicle, so a 10car train could be £125


GWR and freight operators pass through the Bath LEZ (Bath Spa station is within a Bath LEZ), whilst IETs are fairly modern, the emissions from 158s, 165, 166s is nowhere near.

But cumulatively significantly less than all those people driving ?

 

[Benjwri]

But cumulatively significantly less than all those people driving ?

Bath LEZ ironically exempts private vehicles from emissions standards. Buses have to pay or meet emissions standards though.

 

[Pdf]

But would that be per vehicle, so a 10car train could be £125

Might see a return of loco hauled services then.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Marylebone electrified YES

 

[Alex365Dash]

Bath LEZ ironically exempts private vehicles from emissions standards. Buses have to pay or meet emissions standards though.

The same happens with the Portsmouth CAZ.

Whilst the line into Portsmouth is already electrified, GWR Portsmouth - Cardiff services usually use Turbos, sometimes 158s.

 

[HSTEd]

ULEZ doesn't ban diesel but requires it to be Euro 6.

Very few, if any, diesel trains are likely to be close to Euro 6.

 

[Mikey C]

Very few, if any, diesel trains are likely to be close to Euro 6.

Train engines are covered by different standards to road vehicles

 

[Bantamzen]

With the expansion of the ULEZ zone today, if this applied to the railway & diesel engines were banned within the ULEZ zone which services would be affected?
I’m aware Marylebone is not electrified & there would be a big issue for freight but which other services would be affected & what further electrification would be required to achieve a total diesel ban.

Rail travel would be become increasingly expensive as diesel units are going to be around for quite some time yet.

 

[Bryson]

I’ve answered my own question. As it was built before 1 January 1973, it would be ok as a historic vehicle.

But Tornado would be in trouble - completed 2008.

 

[Bletchleyite]

But Tornado would be in trouble - completed 2008.

Does ULEZ apply to external combustion engines at all? That is, is a new-build steam road roller subject to the charge?

 

[RT4038]

Does ULEZ apply to external combustion engines at all? That is, is a new-build steam road roller subject to the charge?

More to the point, would a new build steam road roller be able to comply with current Construction and Use Regulations, and get initial certification in the first place?

 

[HSTEd]

Train engines are covered by different standards to road vehicles

Yes, but if a comparable train engine standard existed in terms of emissions, they would certainly not meet it.

The majority of "modern" diesel locomotives use engines from the 1990s and earlier.

 

[JamesT]

Yes, but if a comparable train engine standard existed in terms of emissions, they would certainly not meet it.

The majority of "modern" diesel locomotives use engines from the 1990s and earlier.

https://dieselnet.com/standards/eu/nonroad.php Appears to have a relevant table for train engines. Scroll all the way down to the bottom and tables 8&9.
By comparison https://dieselnet.com/standards/eu/hd.php has the standards for lorries etc.

 

[py_megapixel]

I used the Metro in Milan recently, 4 hrs parking at the park and ride for €1.50, parking just outside the outer ULEZ. Saved me having to register my car as I couldn’t work out if I needed to or not.

That is, of course, exactly what such schemes are supposed to achieve - encourage people not to take their polluting vehicles into the inner city.