What if... Leith Central had survived

[och aye]

Firstly, apologies if this is in the wrong sub-forum.

I was just wondering if Leith Central had survived demolition back in the 80s, would it have been viable to reopen it as a working passenger station today, given the population of people living in that part of the city today?

Might it also had alleviated some platform constraints at Waverley for trains from Glasgow/Fife to terminate here with stop a stop along the way at Abbeyhill?

 

[PaulLothian]

I very much doubt there would be a good business case. Fairly much on the edge of Leith, only one stop between Leith and Waverley, and, of course, Lothian Buses which do actually connect all areas of Leith to various areas of the city centre that would require rail travellers to continue by bus anyway.

But you are right in that it could reduce pressure on Waverley.

 

[snakeeyes]

Would Princess Street be a better alternative instead ?

 

[najaB]

Would Princess Street be a better alternative instead ?

Wasn't it Princes Street?

 

[Scouseinmanc]

Wasn't it Princes Street?

Yes it was. Also known as The Caley (Caledonian).

 

[edwin_m]

Re-opening Princes Street station would just give Edinburgh the same problem as Glasgow, that many cross-city journeys would involve a transfer between stations (rather further apart in the case of Edinburgh). Also Princes Street station was rather remote from the city centre.

 

[Camden]

I think a tram might be better for that part of town... (oh no!)

 

[47271]

I can't find the reference now but I've got a feeling that when EGIP was under consideration first they looked at the possibility of running terminating trains on to a station at Powderhall, presumably once the waste transfer depot and rubbish trains were removed from the scene. Not a million miles from Leith Central.

I suppose that if a supermarket hadn't been built on the Leith Central site, and the trackbed had been protected elsewhere, then running terminators on to Leith could have been a serious proposition. But the circumstances don't arise.

 

[PaulLothian]

I can't find the reference now but I've got a feeling that when EGIP was under consideration first they looked at the possibility of running terminating trains on to a station at Powderhall, presumably once the waste transfer depot and rubbish trains were removed from the scene. Not a million miles from Leith Central.

But on a different branch which still existed...

 

[Waverley21]

Also Princes Street station was rather remote from the city centre.

The West End of Princes Street is rather remote from the city centre, is it?

 

[InOban]

At one time the West end was off centre, since St Andrew's House is at the East end. But the growth of the financial and conference business at Exchange Square has moved the centre west. Hence the faster growth at Haymarket rather than Waverley.

 

[route101]

I can't find the reference now but I've got a feeling that when EGIP was under consideration first they looked at the possibility of running terminating trains on to a station at Powderhall, presumably once the waste transfer depot and rubbish trains were removed from the scene. Not a million miles from Leith Central.

I suppose that if a supermarket hadn't been built on the Leith Central site, and the trackbed had been protected elsewhere, then running terminators on to Leith could have been a serious proposition. But the circumstances don't arise.

Whats happening with the powderhall branch , is the track staying ?

 

[kylemore]

I think some people have confused Leith Central with Princes St Station.

The short answer is if Leith Central had survived and was for instance serving as the terminus for Glasgow and Dunblane services it would be absolutely booming!

Not only that but Waverley would be much less congested perhaps allowing for the development of the South Suburban line.

 

[47271]

Whats happening with the powderhall branch , is the track staying ?

I don't know about the track but the waste transfer site will be redeveloped for housing. I can't see what alternative use the line could have other than yet another cycleway. The passenger service was always a bit of a far fetched idea I thought.

 

[AngusH]

I've always felt that the Powderhall line should somehow be usable for an extension of the tram system, but it doesn't really seem to be much use.

It might just about be able to provide a link with a tram train right round to the hospital via newcraighall, but I don't know if the journey time would be better than the bus and if there's any capacity on the main line.

 

[anti-pacer]

Coincidentally, there was a question on The Chase this afternoon.

"What Scottish city was there once a station called Leith Central".

The guy answered.... Glasgow! :roll:

 

[47271]

If we're that bothered about public transport for the residents of Powderhall, Bonnington, Broughton and thereabouts then we could start by providing them with a decent bus service never mind a tram train or whatever. The 36 is okayish in the daytime but fizzles out in the evening and Lothian abandoned the very infrequent 13 to a (perfectly efficient to be fair) private operator about 10 years ago.

Leith Walk is permanently jammed with buses, it wouldn't hurt for a few of them to be sent up Bonnington and Broughton Roads.

 

[route101]

If we're that bothered about public transport for the residents of Powderhall, Bonnington, Broughton and thereabouts then we could start by providing them with a decent bus service never mind a tram train or whatever. The 36 is okayish in the daytime but fizzles out in the evening and Lothian abandoned the very infrequent 13 to a (perfectly efficient to be fair) private operator about 10 years ago.

Leith Walk is permanently jammed with buses, it wouldn't hurt for a few of them to be sent up Bonnington and Broughton Roads.

Dosent the 11 go that way ?
36 is now a very long route to the gyle .

 

[leightonbd]

I think some people have confused Leith Central with Princes St Station.

The short answer is if Leith Central had survived and was for instance serving as the terminus for Glasgow and Dunblane services it would be absolutely booming!

Not only that but Waverley would be much less congested perhaps allowing for the development of the South Suburban line.

I would love to see the Sub opened up, though more as the starting point of an alternative Glasgow commute than a way into central Edinburgh. Many people on the south side travel west in the morning.

All the trains to Central would still have to pass through Waverley though, wouldn't they? And don't you think Central is just a bit too far from the SG offices (the main reason to commute to Leith?) to really do the job?

 

[mcmad]

Run from Leith, round the sub to craiglockhart then via shotts to glasgow?

 

[47271]

Dosent the 11 go that way ?
36 is now a very long route to the gyle .

The 11 goes up Newhaven Road and Pilrig Street and then, guess what, Leith Walk.

It's that densely populated bit right at Powderhall, the end of McDonald Road, and along Broughton Road that has the truly feeble service, and they build ever more flats there...

 

[Chrism20]

If we're that bothered about public transport for the residents of Powderhall, Bonnington, Broughton and thereabouts then we could start by providing them with a decent bus service never mind a tram train or whatever. The 36 is okayish in the daytime but fizzles out in the evening and Lothian abandoned the very infrequent 13 to a (perfectly efficient to be fair) private operator about 10 years ago.

Leith Walk is permanently jammed with buses, it wouldn't hurt for a few of them to be sent up Bonnington and Broughton Roads.

The problem with the 13 is the cost to run it. The council subsidise it to the tune of around £150k a year as it is. Increasing the frequency is only going to make it cost more.

Whilst the 36 finishes very early in comparison to other services in Edinburgh it's every twenty minutes till 7pm and half hourly through to around 9:15pm. That's not to bad a service at all and the last couple of services at night carry fresh air most of the time.

I agree there could be more done for Broughton/Bonnington Road. Probably something from town going down Broughton Street then along East Claremont Street onto Broughton/Bonnington Road and terminating at either Ocean Terminal or Newhaven. Going that way and avoiding Elm Row and Leith Walk would probably shave ten minutes off the journey.

Sending something down McDonald Road I dont think is the answer as it still has to deal with the busy junctions at the library and Elm Row.

 

[railjock]

Leith Central was never viable at the time it opened and still wouldn't be.

 

[och aye]

Leith Central was never viable at the time it opened and still wouldn't be.

Really? I can understand the argument when the station was first built. However, the area has changed considerable in recent years. It is the most densely populated part of Scotland. Do you not think trains coming from/to Glasgow would be popular today?

 

[DuncanS]

The proposed tram extension would suggest its viable.

 

[NotATrainspott]

The tram being viable doesn't mean Leith Central would be. Train is a very different mode of transport to tram and there were suburban railway lines closed a century or so ago because of competition with trams.

There will be a tram from Leith to Princes Street just about every three minutes when the line is done. A direct train would find it hard to compete against a change. At a push you might just be able to justify turning a turnback siding into a station, especially if it were to be kitted out with passenger egress so that trains didn't have to be fully checked for stragglers before leaving Waverley. That's when Kensington & Chelsea are pushing for with their Portobello station replacing the well-equipped turnback sidings west of Paddington on the Elizabeth line.

 

[railjock]

Really? I can understand the argument when the station was first built. However, the area has changed considerable in recent years. It is the most densely populated part of Scotland. Do you not think trains coming from/to Glasgow would be popular today?

Not enough to justify re-opening plus I think the required track bed may have been built over at Abbeyhill.

 

[och aye]

The proposed tram extension completion would suggest its viable.

Corrected that for you there.