What happens in this situation?

[Schweir]

I have always wondered what happens in this scenario. Say you purchase an advance ticket for a specified train from London Paddington to Exeter St Davids, however your connecting train e.g from Ashford International to St Pancras is significantly delayed, or cancelled, so you miss the GWR train. If you saw the guard and explained the situation, and provided evidence e.g a screenshot on your phone of the live departure boards of the delayed train, do they let you continue to travel without paying extra, or do you have to pay the difference / purchase a new ticket and potentially claim the extra costs back?

 

[TwistedMentat]

I would think if it's all one ticket you'd be able to continue on the next service.

If you had two separate advance fares then it would be up to you to be there for that service. So entirely guard discretion.

Don't know for sure though.

 

[Merseysider]

If delays occur to your journey you may take the next available service onwards at no extra cost; there’s no need to get your ticket stamped or endorsed unless the next train is run by a completely different company, in which case it would be prudent to do so.

 

[Merseysider]

If you had two separate advance fares then it would be up to you to be there for that service. So entirely guard discretion.

Don't know for sure though.

No.

The (public) National Rail Conditions of Travel explicitly state that you can use two or more tickets for one journey and (internal) briefs to staff state that the next train can still be taken in this case.

 

[Schweir]

I would think if it's all one ticket you'd be able to continue on the next service.

If you had two separate advance fares then it would be up to you to be there for that service. So entirely guard discretion.

Don't know for sure though.

If delays occur to your journey you may take the next available service onwards at no extra cost; there’s no need to get your ticket stamped or endorsed unless the next train is run by a completely different company, in which case it would be prudent to do so.

Thanks for the replies.

 

[TwistedMentat]

No.

The (public) National Rail Conditions of Travel explicitly state that you can use two or more tickets for one journey and (internal) briefs to staff state that the next train can still be taken in this case.

Huh, neat.

So if I purchased an advance fare from X to Y one day where Y arrival time was say 12:00 and then a few days later purchased a different advance fare from Y to Z where Y departure time was say 13:00. If journey A was delayed that I arrived at 13:05 and missed my 13:00 departure I could catch the next service?

 

[Merseysider]

Yes, that would be absolutely fine, providing you allow enough time between trains (5 minutes, but normally 10/12/15 at larger stations). It can often work out cheaper, too.

TrainSplit is probably the best website out there for working out the cheapest option, and will take into account minimum connection times automatically.

 

[Dai Corner]

Yes, that would be absolutely fine, providing you allow enough time between trains (5 minutes, but normally 10/12/15 at larger stations). It can often work out cheaper, too.

TrainSplit is probably the best website out there for working out the cheapest option, and will take into account minimum connection times automatically.

What about the journey in the OP, if the arrival at St Pancras was on time but a delay outside the railway's control occurred crossing London causing him to miss the Paddington-Exeter train?

 

[AlterEgo]

What about the journey in the OP, if the arrival at St Pancras was on time but a delay outside the railway's control occurred crossing London causing him to miss the Paddington-Exeter train?

If it’s on the Tube and you have appropriate connecting tickets then you’re covered.

If you walk, or get a bus, or drop dead or something and get delayed - tough.

 

[nickswift99]

What about the journey in the OP, if the arrival at St Pancras was on time but a delay outside the railway's control occurred crossing London causing him to miss the Paddington-Exeter train?

The OP would need to have a rail ticket that covered his journey from St Pancras to Paddington. For example, by buying an origin to Z1 ticket or a Z1 to destination ticket. This would mean their entire journey is covered by the NRCoT.

 

[Merseysider]

What about the journey in the OP, if the arrival at St Pancras was on time but a delay outside the railway's control occurred crossing London causing him to miss the Paddington-Exeter train?

If he/she were to be delayed whilst using the Underground, and held a ticket valid for transfer on the Underground (eg Travelcard, season, ticket to Zone 1 etc) then there would be no problem taking the next available train service at the other end, although it would be wise to get Underground staff to note/endorse the delays on the ticket.

Similarly, National Rail intermodal tickets valid for use on other modes of transport (such as the Croydon tramlink, a named bus link etc) would not require a new ticket to be purchased in the event of delays on these services.

If the OP made their transfer by walking/cycling/TfL bus/coach then no such automatic entitlement exists if delays (eg road closures) happen but it’s always worth explaining and asking anyway.

 

[njr001]

What about using Oyster but planning to start the journey by taking a Chiltern Service at Stations between Amersham & Harrow on the Met then cross London to say Kings Cross to carry on a journey with an Advance fare. Should one always buy a paper ticket in case of delay and is one issued at an Underground Station valid?

I find often GWR Advances to destinations in the West or Wales originating from the North end of the Met are hardly any more than the Oyster fare plus the Advance fare from Paddington, however VTEC Advances whose origin is the outer reaches of the Met are significantly more expensive than those originating at Kings Cross.

 

[Bletchleyite]

No.

The (public) National Rail Conditions of Travel explicitly state that you can use two or more tickets for one journey and (internal) briefs to staff state that the next train can still be taken in this case.

However AIUI an Oyster card or Contactless is not considered a ticket for this purpose (I'm sure this came up in here not so long ago). So if you want a through journey across London to be protected in this way, buy one of them to/from U1 instead (or buy a paper Tube ticket - maybe - not sure if this works).

 

[Merseysider]

I believe you’re right and it may be something to do with the requirement to actually hold a valid ticket/pass/etc prior to being informed about the delay

 

[Hadders]

I believe you can use Oyster PAYG/contactless butnyou need to get the delay validated by a member of staff which is not the easiest thing to do., especially when you’ve already suffered a delay.

It’s therefore more straightforward to use a paper ticket.

 

[bb21]

Oyster PAYG is absolutely fine. See the bottom part of Page 7 of the NRCoT.

You just need to make sure that your itinerary is legitimate.

 

[some bloke]

AIUI an Oyster card or Contactless is not considered a ticket for this purpose...So if you want a through journey across London to be protected in this way, buy one of them to/from U1 instead (or buy a paper Tube ticket - maybe - not sure if this works).

I believe you can use Oyster PAYG/contactless butnyou need to get the delay validated by a member of staff

Oyster PAYG is absolutely fine. See the bottom part of Page 7 of the NRCoT.

At the bottom of that page a box says,

"‘Ticket’ includes a validated contactless payment card where accepted. The ‘Tickets’ definition in Appendix B gives more information."

Although Appendix B mentions Oyster, it also says,

"“Ticket” means any physical or electronic document or record which entitles a passenger to make a journey on the National Rail Network".

I would expect that to mean delays on the Tube do not entitle passengers [Later note: who do not have NR tickets/documents/records which include the Tube] with a booking limited to one National Rail train to take the next
- and that this will apply if they use Oyster, contactless or a paper Tube ticket.

 

[bb21]

Your interpretation then directly contradicts the answers in the Advance Fare FAQ document issued by ATOC (as it were) a couple of years back, in which it was clearly stated that NR paper tickets plus a paper Underground single is a valid combination for the purpose of Condition 19 (as it were), and entitled the customer to take the next available departure if a connection were missed due to delays on the Tube.

You are overthinking this I suspect.

 

[some bloke]

Actually I am thinking how people can find a practical solution - make a solid case and not miss another train. Perhaps we can agree that page 7 is not enough.

Hopefully it would be a rare case where there was delay on the Tube and NR staff were not helpful.

Perhaps you could clarify which document you are referring to. There is a document in the Advance Fare FAQ thread, but I can't see the passage you mention.

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/advance-fare-faq-for-transport-focus.127957/#post-2498007

If it were me I think I would mention to staff condition 9.4, pointing out that the Conditions of Travel don't specify whether a "train service" includes the Tube, and the vague formulations on the National Rail and perhaps TOC website, which refer to delays in a rather general way.

 

[Chrisgr31]

When travelling somewhere in the country for work I'll book a ticket on a specific train out of the relevant terminus. I then use my season ticket to get in to London Bridge and a PAYG Oyster to cross London. I always ensure that the timing combination from my home station to my final destination work by checking the through ticket.

Occasionally my train in to London has been delayed, and therefore I have missed my booked train out. On every occasion I have gone to the ticket office, or if the next train is about to leave the ticket barrier and they have marked my ticket so I can travel on the next train. Some of them have checked m incoming train was late.

I have never had a major delay on the underground transiting between London Terminals. Partly because its usually possible to take an alternative route.

 

[some bloke]

I have never had a major delay on the underground transiting between London Terminals. Partly because its usually possible to take an alternative route.

Yes.

There's possibly a wider point. Although condition 9.4 only refers to the opportunity to take the next train if a previous train is delayed, the website version doesn't explicitly limit the delays to trains. I don't know how deliberate that is, or whether people have mentioned this text when discussing validity with rail companies or station staff.

"Advance ticket... Conditions of use...

If delays occur while travelling, you will be allowed to take the next available train(s) to complete your journey."

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/ticket_types/46546.aspx

 

[bb21]

Actually I am thinking how people can find a practical solution - make a solid case and not miss another train. Perhaps we can agree that page 7 is not enough.

Hopefully it would be a rare case where there was delay on the Tube and NR staff were not helpful.

Perhaps you could clarify which document you are referring to. There is a document in the Advance Fare FAQ thread, but I can't see the passage you mention.

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/advance-fare-faq-for-transport-focus.127957/#post-2498007

If it were me I think I would mention to staff condition 9.4, pointing out that the Conditions of Travel don't specify whether a "train service" includes the Tube, and the vague formulations on the National Rail and perhaps TOC website, which refer to delays in a rather general way.

The latest FAQ in the Knowledgebase is reproduced in the Fares & Ticketing Guide, Section 1.1.3.

Direct quote from Page 3 of the document, "or Advance ticket Bristol Parkway - London Paddington plus Zone U1 single ticket plus Advance ticket London Kings Cross to Hull" refers to an example of a valid combination of tickets where the middle one is a single ticket on the Underground, which can only come in the form of a paper ticket or Oyster PAYG (either the same effect for the purpose of this discussion). This is the same example as the Bristol - Hull example shown in Q22 in the post you linked to.

 

[route:oxford]

I have always wondered what happens in this scenario. Say you purchase an advance ticket for a specified train from London Paddington to Exeter St Davids, however your connecting train e.g from Ashford International to St Pancras is significantly delayed, or cancelled...

Don't forget that your seat reservation isn't valid on the next service.

There was quite a tantrum on an East Coast service I took recently when a delayed passenger demanded that she had the right to my booked seat...

 

[some bloke]

valid combination of tickets where the middle one is a single ticket on the Underground

Thank you.

 

[island]

As for endorsement, it is advisable to obtain this whether or not it is required.