What happened to home built trains

[Erniescooper]

Most if not all of Alstoms products are produced either down in the Poitou-Charentes region of France at Alstoms La Rochelle plant or as the Pendolinos show in their Italian factory.

Alstom has a very successful train building factory in Salzgitter Germany.

 

[317666]

Germany (i.e. DB) has trains primarily built by Siemens, Bombardier & Alsthom. The first two are probably built in Germany but I have no idea where Alsthom construct their trains

Bombardier have a factory in Hennigsdorf, just outside of Berlin. It's where the new Talent 2 EMUs are built. I believe Siemens use their Krefeld plant, which is where the UK Desiros were largely manufactured. It's where the new Velaro Ds are being built in any case.

 

[Oswyntail]

I don't think that any of the major industrial countries (other than the USA?) have access to cheap raw materials.

Well it is certainly easier to import iron ore (say) from Sweden or the Ukraine to continental Europe than to the UK.

 

[cjmillsnun]

Well it is certainly easier to import iron ore (say) from Sweden or the Ukraine to continental Europe than to the UK.

Is it? It's just a slightly longer train journey, that's all.. Don't forget there is a fixed rail link between the UK and Continental Europe that has been in service since the mid 90's

 

[Eagle]

A fixed rail link with a huge track access charge.

 

[DarloRich]

Well it is certainly easier to import iron ore (say) from Sweden or the Ukraine to continental Europe than to the UK.

It would be much easier to extract our own resources from the vast reserves which sit under our country – but we can’t do that any more can we?

 

[Oswyntail]

It would be much easier to extract our own resources from the vast reserves which sit under our country – but we can’t do that any more can we?

Which comes back to the original question - why is it more economical to import finished products/raw materials than produce our own?

 

[starrymarkb]

IIRC UK coal tends to be deep down, wheras in Germany/Poland it's near the surface. A single large Bucket Wheel Excavator can extract 240,000 cubic metres of material per day, a deep mine couldn't get anywhere near that amount!

 

[ainsworth74]

It would be much easier to extract our own resources from the vast reserves which sit under our country – but we can’t do that any more can we?

What vast reserves of iron ore or other resources? We've been resource poor, other than coal (of which much remains it's just uneconomic to extract), since the early days of the Industrial Revolution. There's a reason why we built an empire and it wasn't just for fun.

 

[AndrewP]

UK manufacturing is in a better position now than it has been for a number of years with the UK looking very positive for investment and growth especially from the emerging countries.

France and Germany are starting to face big issues just as the UK did a number of years ago.

It is interesting to look at the car industry for example where we are seeing growth and investment and success (for example by 2015 Nissan will be making more cars in Washington than the whole of Italy) and with luck the same will happen to rail.

The Hitachi factory is interesting as it is how Nissan started out but now cars are completely designed, engineered and built here with very high local content. Will Hitachi be able to do the same - I am sure that is their game plan.

Siemens are also interesting - they employ 8000 manufacturing and engineering staff in the uk!

 

[NSEFAN]

Which comes back to the original question - why is it more economical to import finished products/raw materials than produce our own?

Do the producing countries of the raw materials and finished products have minimum wages? How do they compare with the UK relative to the living costs in those respective countries?

 

[ainsworth74]

Siemens are also interesting - they employ 8000 manufacturing and engineering staff in the uk!

Which I believe is more staff than the 'British' company Bombardier. However I'm sorry to say that this doesn't matter as the trains aren't build here :roll:

 

[Oswyntail]

Do the producing countries of the raw materials and finished products have minimum wages? How do they compare with the UK relative to the living costs in those respective countries?

I suspect that Sweden and Ukraine as raw material suppliers and Germany and France as suppliers are roughly comparable with the UK. (Of course, i must admit i do not know the exact details of the supply chain)

 

[Metrailway]

IIRC around 30-40% of our imported coal comes from Russia, where workers are not as well treated as over here. Plus they are able to have massive open pit mines which would be very difficult over here due to population density and geology. Thus, they are able to produce coal very cheaply.

 

[Eagle]

Siemens are also interesting - they employ 8000 manufacturing and engineering staff in the uk!

And have been employing staff in this country since 1843.

Bombardier only employ British staff as a result of the carve-up of BREL in the 1980s.

 

[D365]

And have been employing staff in this country since 1843.

Bombardier only employ British staff as a result of the carve-up of BREL in the 1980s.

These 8000 Siemens jobs are more than just the railway/rolling stock industry?

 

[Eagle]

True. But supplying the British railway industry has been a major part of Siemens's UK operation since they first started selling their telegraph systems in the 1850s.

 

[RochdalePioneers]

It seems like a fairly simple principle. Free market dogma dictates that the free market is always right, so we let our business compete without subsidy.

Elsewhere in Europe they say screw the free market, we're not going to let strategic national infrastructure - manufacturing - to be at the whim of the market, let's protect it.

So our free market vs a rigged market, and we get surprised when we lose. However as the friends of the dogmatists make £££ flogging everything in sight, everything will be alright.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

 

[AndrewP]

Bombardier only employ British staff as a result of the carve-up of BREL in the 1980s.

Not quite - Bombardier's biggest single UK interest is Short Brothers in Belfast (a part of Bombardier Aviation) which employs over 5000 staff.