What happened to corridor coaches?

[poshfan]

During my spell in the RAF in the 80's I remember services through my local station - Stamford - being formed of class 31 locos and Mk1 coaches. These operated a Birmingham to Norwich service (via the Ely loop) and usually didn't stop at Stamford on weekdays, although there were some exceptions. The local service was generally 2 car dmu's on Leicester-Peterborough runs, plus some Peterborough-Stamford-Peterborough shuttles.

I remember using the service on Sunday's to get to Birmingham, to change there for Bristol, to get back to camp at RAF Locking, near Weston-super-Mare. The coaches were nearly all mk1 corridor compartment coaches with just the odd mk1 open seen now and then. It must have been 1981 or 1982.

I can't recall being in a compartment coach since that time. Was this the last use of compartment coaches other than heritage lines, or did they hold out longer elsewhere? I have a vague idea that on mainlines compartments survived longer in 1st class but I'm not sure about this or for how long.

 

[Eagle]

Compartments lasted in the Southern region for quite a bit longer than that. Can't recall when the last ones were withdrawn though, but it was certainly not too long before the end of slammers in 2004-ish*.

*Okay technically the end of slammers was in 2010 when SWT retired the 421 on the Lymington Branch. But 2004 was when the last ones left mainline duties.

 

[455driver]

Compartments lasted in the Southern region for quite a bit longer than that (can't recall when the last ones were withdrawn though, but it was certainly not long before the end of slammers in 2004-ish).

The 442s had 1st class compartments up to the time SWT got rid of them, Gatwick Express ran some with the compartments until they were refurbished/ruined.

 

[TEW]

The two 'heritage' CIGs that ran the Lymington branch had a couple of compartments, mainly First Class but they also had 2 standard class compartments, and they lasted until 2010. The 442s prior to refurbishment by Southern also had First Class compartments.

 

[theblackwatch]

There's been a compartment coach on loco-hauled service trains this year - DRS has a Mk. 2d BFK which was used on the Crewe-Derby shuttles back in August.

 

[edwin_m]

The last loco-hauled Standard/second compartment stock was Mk1s which were built up to about 1965. However the early series Mk2 stock had compartments in First, even including the first air-conditioned ones which would have been around 1970. From either Mk2e or Mk2f all loco-hauled stock was built as open saloons. I believe Mk2 First compartment stock was used until the end of the Cross Country trains that split at Carstairs, as the First sometimes had to be formed in the middle of the train and it was felt to reduce the disturbance from other passengers walking through.

I have an inkling that the 442 units were built with compartments in First circa 1988 but these were later converted into an open saloon. But no doubt someone will be along soon to tell me I am talking rubbish (edit: No I didn't imagine this!).

 

[samuelmorris]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/9003948@N05/4076085444/

 

[Peter Mugridge]

The NSE Network Expresses to Oxford had a few SK vehicles in use until they ceased when the 165s came into service in the early 1990s.

Prefered the opens myself; can see out both sides from an open.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I remember in about 1998ish using a FirstNorthWestern loco-hauled North Wales service (sadly only from Piccadilly to Oxford Road!) which contained in the rake a pressure-ventilated Mk2 which had a side corridor/compartments near to the guards compartment. I think the loco was 37415.

 

[yorksrob]

All of the Southern slammers built for longer and intermediate distances had corridoor compartments. With the exception of Lymington, these lasted in large numbers until late 2005.

An altogether far more civilised form of travel.

 

[GatwickDepress]

All of the Southern slammers built for longer and intermediate distances had corridoor compartments. With the exception of Lymington, these lasted in large numbers until late 2005.

An altogether far more civilised form of travel.

Although I recall jammed doors, smashed glass, rattling racks, uncomfortable seat cushions, and people using the compartments to have a cheeky gasper. Then again, I wasn't around to see them in their peak, when they wouldn't have been the rickety grime-buckets they became at the end.

 

[yorksrob]

Although I recall jammed doors, smashed glass, rattling racks, uncomfortable seat cushions, and people using the compartments to have a cheeky gasper. Then again, I wasn't around to see them in their peak, when they wouldn't have been the rickety grime-buckets they became at the end.

I don't know what you're talking about as regards to uncomfortable seat cushions !

As for the rest, I believe these were down to poor maintenance (cough "connex" cough) and dodgy passengers. You should have experienced them after their NSE refurbs

 

[corfield]

What about if you remember all that on the SWML in NSE days ?

If you genuinely think the slammer corridor was a better way to travel than a 442 or a Deisro I beleive you've either hardly used them or have a serious case of rose tinted vision.

 

[DXMachina]

Also, most of us are men. Important not to forget that compartment stock from a woman's PoV was a bit threatening especially on late night services - no direct line of sight to other passengers meant no safety in numbers.

 

[yorksrob]

V

What about if you remember all that on the SWML in NSE days ?

If you genuinely think the slammer corridor was a better way to travel than a 442 or a Deisro I beleive you've either hardly used them or have a serious case of rose tinted vision.

Well, for a start, 442‘s had compartments anyway, so I don‘t know what your point is in that respect.

Secondly, I‘ve had around thirty years of travelling on slam-door stock, and most of that involved trying to bag the standard compartment, so I‘m more than capable of making my own mind up, regardless of whatever spectacles I may be wearing.

Thirdly, my travel was mainly on the South Eastern and Central divisions (plus a bit on the Reading route, so my comparative reference is with electrostars and 455‘s rather than 442‘s.That said, a desiro appears to be a slightly more comfortable version of any other modern train, so I don‘t see how this is supposed to be some great equivalent to compartment travel.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Also, most of us are men. Important not to forget that compartment stock from a woman's PoV was a bit threatening especially on late night services - no direct line of sight to other passengers meant no safety in numbers.

That‘s true, but then again whilst approx half the population are women, only a quarter of slammer accommodation was compartment (after the CEP refurb)

 

[gordonthemoron]

DB still has some, as do Finnish Railways, Bulgarian Railways, Turkish Railways, Polish Railways etc. Plus anything that has couchettes (except the now retired DB Talgo)

 

[SeanG]

Wasn't there a murder in compartmented stock which led to its demise?
Or am I imagining things?

 

[ainsworth74]

I believe there were a string of incidents that made compartment stock unpopular. Indeed I seem to recall that such stock had a coloured line above compartments so people could spot them and avoid it.

Certainly safety was a factor in why we've not had compartment stock since the 442s were built (and even then it was only first class).

 

[eastwestdivide]

Just for clarity, the red line was on the EPB EMUs (Cl 415 etc) in their latter days, above the six-seats-a-side compartments where the only doors opened out onto the platforms. Not the side-corridor arrangement of Mk1s and first-class Mk2s referred to in the OP.

 

[ainsworth74]

That was what I was thinking of, thanks

 

[Harlesden]

Assuming the oldest coaching stock may have been used on overnight (non-sleeper) services, which compartment stock might I have ridden on in the mid-1970's on the 01:15 from London King's Cross. Cannot recall the train's actual destination but I took it as far as Retford where I transferred to a "milk train" on to Grimsby Town which, I am almost sure also had compartment stock for passengers.
Happy days.

 

[jopsuk]

Mark 1s, unless you went 1st class. For hauled stock, the following holds:
Mark 1: mix of Open and Compartment in both classes
Mark 2: 1st Class Compartment and Open, Standard class all Open
Mark 3: All open apart from sleepers
Mark 4: all open.

Pre-BR stock included non-corridor compartment stock.

 

[matchmaker]

Open stock began to be common in the 1930's with both the LMS and LNER introducing it in both classes. Apart from anything else it increased the number of passengers per coach and hence reduced costs!

 

[455driver]

Just for clarity, the red line was on the EPB EMUs (Cl 415 etc) in their latter days, above the six-seats-a-side compartments where the only doors opened out onto the platforms. Not the side-corridor arrangement of Mk1s and first-class Mk2s referred to in the OP.

And to clarify the clarification , basically most of the 415 (4EPBs) were built with one open trailer and one compartment trailer each*, after the incidents it was decided to remarshal them so some had 2 open trailers (and were for normal use) and some had 2 compartment trailers (and were supposedly limited to peak hour trains).
To signify the compartment trailers they had a red cant rail stripe painted on so they could be easily identified.

The red stripe was was also used to signify catering vehicles.

* Yes I know there was some variation but it is outside the requirements of this thread so could the pedants hold it in please!

 

[edwin_m]

Mark 1s, unless you went 1st class. For hauled stock, the following holds:
Mark 1: mix of Open and Compartment in both classes
Mark 2: 1st Class Compartment and Open, Standard class all Open
Mark 3: All open apart from sleepers
Mark 4: all open.

Pre-BR stock included non-corridor compartment stock.

Later Mk2s were open in both classes.

Did the Mk1 suburban stock have non-corridor compartments? The last of these disappeared in the mid-70s with the Great Northern electrification.

 

[W-on-Sea]

Wasn't there a murder in compartmented stock which led to its demise?
Or am I imagining things?

Yes, you are probably remembering this, when a woman was murdered in a closed compartment on a train between Petts Wood and Victoria in March 1988
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-21875096

That was, I think, the prime cause of the red stripe being added above closed compartments (on LTS Class 302s, as well as various Southern Region EMUs, and possibly elsewhere too), and their accelerated phasing out.

---

It's interesting to see that even some of the modern ICE stock in Germany has (side-corridor) compartments - and very smart ones, at that.

 

[Cheshire Rover]

I remember in about 1998ish using a FirstNorthWestern loco-hauled North Wales service (sadly only from Piccadilly to Oxford Road!) which contained in the rake a pressure-ventilated Mk2 which had a side corridor/compartments near to the guards compartment. I think the loco was 37415.

There used to be plenty of that stock through Helsby years ago hauled by a variety of locomotives. I used to travel a lot as a teenager on the Manchester to North Wales route. Sometimes you got a loco, more often a bog unit that was far too long for the platforms at Helsby but in those days of slam doors no-one seemed daft enough to open a door and fall onto the embankment.

 

[matchmaker]

Did the Mk1 suburban stock have non-corridor compartments? The last of these disappeared in the mid-70s with the Great Northern electrification.

Yes - both on 57' and 64' underframes.