What functions cannot be performed by Ticket Vending Machines, and why?

[trainJam]

The availability, quality, and ability of ticket vending machines (TVMs) vary substantially across different stations and TOCs.

For example:

WMR/LNR TVMs offer the ability to change the origin, but do not have a journey planner (thus it lists "all" (or most !) walkup fares between origin and destination, rather like BRFares). A limited selection of area travel products can be found in the "Travelcards" section: London Zones 1-6, Daytripper, Network One Day (but not even West Midlands Day Ranger)
ScotRail have similar TVMs to WMT but iirc do not allow change of origin. On both, advance fares are not possible.
Avanti and Chiltern TVMs enforce an itinerary through a compulsory journey planner - e.g. good for unexperienced users to know if the ticket they are buying can even be used; bad for experienced users who know what they are doing and just want a day return as fast as possible. This is more suitable for longer distance intercity travel, less so with metro or commuter services (hence why I hope WMT (and others) keep a non-itinerary option should they update their TVMs). Also, just like NRE and similar online journey planners, the fastest (and most dear) route (ie avanti) is given first.

Afaik, excess fares cannot be sold on TVMs (unless you count Boundary Zone tickets).

Secondly, given the recent push to reduce ticket offices (although I am not specifically debating that proposal in this thread), why are some functions not available on TVMs? I'll start things off with:

To reduce fare evasion (buying tickets near start and end, or just to enter/exit at a gated origin/destination. WMT don't seem to have a significant issue with this then.
Technical issues - hardware or software of TVM won't allow the ticket.
Unwillingness to improve TVMs or to design them well - as cheap as possible.

Would it in any way be possible to allow excess fares on TVMs, perhaps by giving sufficient on-screen instructions? Or are excesses strictly for staff only? Why?

How are TVMs in your area, and more generally why?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Chiltern don't have a compulsory journey planner, you can bypass it with a "common tickets" feature, though I forget exactly what the button is called. Same with Northern.

Avanti's TVMs are just dire.

 

[The exile]

One of the biggest gaps in tvm service round here (former County of Avon) is their inability to sell the Freedom Travelpass which is widely used (and promoted) as a season ticket (or certainly was pre-covid). Monthly ones require a photo card but weekly and daily ones don’t.

 

[Southsider]

Scotrail machines can’t issue concession tickets, don’t know why.

 

[Buzby]

Scotrail machines can’t issue concession tickets, don’t know why.

They did - for about 3 months when the machines were first installed. The software could easily cope with the price hike after 10 miles and blocking concession rated stations outwith usual Strathclyde area. It was found customers were routinely hitting the ‘Concession’ button whether they had a card or not (this was pre-RFID) as a great way of discounted travel With limited chances of being discovered. Misuse was supposedly endemic, and the button was removed from the display - a sticker advised concession tickets were still available from the Booking Office or on-train staff While the issue was addressed.

As you’ve noticed, it hasn’t been. AIUI it was ScotRail that mandated the removal, not SPT. With the introduction of RFID readers on all the machines, it was looking good for a return especially as the SaltireCard can store PAYG credit (as it does for similarly charged SPT Subway travel) but again this has not been implemented. I queried this last year and told ‘it is coming’ as delegates to COP were issued with loaded PAYG travel cards were acting as a trial.

There’s been no public utterances since.

 

[Snow1964]

GWR ones can't issue tickets for 2 people if they have different railcards (or only one has a railcard) have to do 2 transactions entering destination twice

 

[CyrusWuff]

Chiltern don't have a compulsory journey planner, you can bypass it with a "common tickets" feature, though I forget exactly what the button is called. Same with Northern.

Avanti's TVMs are just dire.

Chiltern's don't have the "Quick Buy" feature enabled like Northern's fleet do, so if the ticket you want isn't included in the popular products list you have to go through the journey planner.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Chiltern's don't have the "Quick Buy" feature enabled like Northern's fleet do, so if the ticket you want isn't included in the popular products list you have to go through the journey planner.

Ah. I guess what I wanted has always been on the front screen, given that I don't think I've ever bought anything other than a return to London/Brum or a Travelcard at a Chiltern TVM.

It is strange having a planner based setup on a TOC that doesn't, at least in the commuter belt, really do Advances, and nor do most of its customers other than perhaps those making long journeys.

 

[Wallsendmag]

This is a very common industry question at the moment, you'd be surpriesed how many people are looking at it and how many TVM suppliers don't know the abilities of their own machines.

 

[Haywain]

Scotrail machines can’t issue concession tickets, don’t know why.

Because Scotrail don't want them sold at TVMs.

 

[joncombe]

I don't think any ticket machines can sell boundary zone 6 tickets.

 

[Mike395]

I don't think any ticket machines can sell boundary zone 6 tickets.

GTR's S&B machines can - or certainly could recently. (Using the 'tickets from another station' functionality for BZ6-originating tickets)

 

[Western 52]

TfW machines don't sell some rovers such as the Explore Wales pass, and their website says they have to be bought at stations. Most of their stations are unstaffed though!

 

[david1212]

At least some GWR ones e.g. Paignton can not sell a Devon Day Ranger nor a ticket starting at another destination so effectively can not sell split tickets.

Chiltern don't have a compulsory journey planner, you can bypass it with a "common tickets" feature, though I forget exactly what the button is called. Same with Northern.

Chiltern's don't have the "Quick Buy" feature enabled like Northern's fleet do, so if the ticket you want isn't included in the popular products list you have to go through the journey planner.

If you have lots of time and ignore the queue building behind you can Chiltern TVM's sell tickets starting from other destinations and hence split tickets? If so I guess knowing the approximate times at the split point in both directions is effectively essential - or if a through train will the TVM not sell the ticket because the interchange time is too short? If so then logical workaround for the journey planner would to be dropping back a train at each split point. I am thinking of walk-on tickets not train specific advances.

OT but a ticket office clerk can issue a three stage split and process payment in under a minute .....

 

[urbophile]

I don't know if 'Great British Railways' still features in the Sunak New Rail Golden Age, but one very useful change that could be implemented is to have, not just a standard nationwide ticketing system, but a standard design and format for TVMs.

 

[ComUtoR]

Can't get PRIV tickets.

 

[CyrusWuff]

If you have lots of time and ignore the queue building behind you can Chiltern TVM's sell tickets starting from other destinations and hence split tickets? If so I guess knowing the approximate times at the split point in both directions is effectively essential - or if a through train will the TVM not sell the ticket because the interchange time is too short? If so then logical workaround for the journey planner would to be dropping back a train at each split point. I am thinking of walk-on tickets not train specific advances.

Yes. They can do remote origins and have shopping basket functionality. I don't think they can do Boundary Zone extensions though.

 

[Bungle965]

Avanti's TVMs are just dire.

Please expand on why you think this?

Can't get PRIV tickets.

There is nothing stopping this being being on TVM‘s rather it is RDG who don’t want this on the machines.

 

[Haywain]

I don't think they can do Boundary Zone extensions though.

That correct. Because you can't plan a journey from a 'virtual' location.

GTR's S&B machines can - or certainly could recently. (Using the 'tickets from another station' functionality for BZ6-originating tickets)

They still can, as long as you know the origin you are looking for is "London Boundary of Zone...". I expect a lot of people are caught out by that.

Can't get PRIV tickets.

But at least RDG /RSTL have given you authority to get on a train without a ticket in those circumstances.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Please expand on why you think this?

Absolutely nothing whatsoever is right about them. Have you used one? The UI is slow, clunky and utterly counterintuitive.

Of the planner UIs the least worst I've seen is LNER.

 

[Msq71423]

Disabled tickets at 50% and 75% (not railcard)

 

[Bungle965]

Absolutely nothing whatsoever is right about them. Have you used one? The UI is slow, clunky and utterly counterintuitive.

When was the last time you used one?
They've had at least 2 major updates on them recently which addressed a lot of the issues with the UI.

 

[Peter0124]

Bizarrely some TVMs behind gatelines have no option of collecting pre-paid tickets. Notably the ones at Glasgow Central Low Level.

 

[Bletchleyite]

When was the last time you used one?
They've had at least 2 major updates on them recently which addressed a lot of the issues with the UI.

A while ago to be fair, I will have to have another go.

 

[trainJam]

Chiltern don't have a compulsory journey planner, you can bypass it with a "common tickets" feature, though I forget exactly what the button is called. Same with Northern.

From playing around, the only way to bypass the planner is to buy a popular ticket (seems like the only way to get a via High Wycombe Travelcard). Goes straight to basket, no itinerary.

I don't think any ticket machines can sell boundary zone 6 tickets.

WMT offer the ability to extend travelcards from BZ6, but not the other way (destination BZ6).

Regarding misuse of discounts, a small number of adults buy child tickets for a large 50% discount via TVMs.

 

[Ralph Ayres]

No TVM can use fuzzy logic to work out what a passenger really means when they ask for a ticket to London (though that will matter less if Travelcards do get abolished), or patiently explain the bits of any ticket's conditions that are likely to be relevant to the passenger's plans without totally confusing them. Some ticket sellers can't manage any of that either of course, so helping the cause of doing themselves out of a job.

 

[Kite159]

..

Regarding misuse of discounts, a small number of adults buy child tickets for a large 50% discount via TVMs.

That is something which won't be resolved unless it gets picked up by on-train staff or revenue protection.

 

[riceuten]

They wouldn't sell PlusBus tickets for a long time from TVMs as apparently customers were "abusing" them (how, I have no idea). You could get round it by pre-ordering the ticket.

You still can't buy a Hatfield to St Albans Line2Line ticket, and of course there is the lovely Southern/Thameslink DaySave ticket that was only available by post or from Tourist Offices. Not sure if that one is still available.

 

[Russel]

Why are so few rangers and rovers available via TVM's?

 

[RT4038]

Please expand on why you think this?

Wanted to go yesterday from Rugby to Durham, returning today. No trains on Birmingham-Derby-Sheffield route due to flooding, but ticket acceptance via other reasonable routes. (via Manchester)

Went to Avanti TVM at Rugby Station, which just said no itineraries are available (presumably because via Manchester is not normally a legal route) so no ticket could be bought. Luckily ticket office open to sell ticket and advise route.

Hopeless. Clearly no one thought of this scenario, or didn't care, or just believed I should have paid much more by buying separate tickets, or I shouldn't have travelled. Journey completed there and back without problem on (more or less) punctual trains.,