• Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

What expectations does national rail have of TOCs putting things on TRUST

Status
Not open for further replies.

renegademaster

Established Member
Joined
22 Jun 2023
Messages
2,225
Location
Croydon
When following Railtours , it seems like sometimes they are up months in advance on RTT and some others wait for the last moment to put the paths up.

Additionally, with railhead treatment trains they can be pretty loose with their schedule.

Do Network rail fine operators for late submissions or not following the timetable or do they just get a disappointed letter?
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

The Planner

Veteran Member
Joined
15 Apr 2008
Messages
19,749
When following Railtours , it seems like sometimes they are up months in advance on RTT and some others wait for the last moment to put the paths up.

Additionally, with railhead treatment trains they can be pretty loose with their schedule.

Do Network rail fine operators for late submissions or not following the timetable or do they just get a disappointed letter?
RHTT is done internally and most paths are fixed in the timetable as WTT as otherwise they struggle to get paths. If you are late submitting then you get the dregs of what is left. Its all part of Network Code Part D.
 

Adrian Barr

Member
Joined
2 Jul 2020
Messages
810
Location
Doncaster
When following Railtours , it seems like sometimes they are up months in advance on RTT and some others wait for the last moment to put the paths up.

Additionally, with railhead treatment trains they can be pretty loose with their schedule.

Do Network rail fine operators for late submissions or not following the timetable or do they just get a disappointed letter?

The late appearance of a railtour schedule on Realtime Trains doesn't necessarily mean it was submitted late from the operator. Simple "out and back" tours are likely to have the timings finalised earlier, and some regular workings are even in the working timetable, such as some of the VSOE (Belmond Pullman) schedules, depending on destination.

For a complex tour there will be an ongoing discussion well in advance between Network Rail and the promoter / operator over what is possible, based on an initial outline request. For example an initial set of timings suggested by Network Rail might result in a start or end time which is not really acceptable and means the timings need tweaking, certain line or terminal requests might not be possible or depend upon a particular freight service not running, and so on. These discussions will result in a formal "draft" offer which isn't seen on RTT, and then a finalised set of timings which actually get uploaded to TRUST and appear on RTT. Last minute changes might be minor things like the location of crew changes required by the operator. I don't know the exact details of how all this works, but it's more to do with the process being 100% finalised at a late stage rather than late submissions.

Also bear in mind that Network Rail upload the schedules - for an operator to input their own schedules would be a bit like nipping behind the bar at the pub to serve yourself!

The RHTTs generally run on WTT schedules as mentioned above, but there may be changes on the day caused by issues such as a fault with an MPV or RHTT requiring it to return to depot, or a diagram starting late on a Monday because an RHTT set is coming off tyre-turning. Certain parts of the diagram might be skipped due to late running, or deemed not to be required, or there could be requests to divert off-route and treat a particular section of line which is especially bad. The timings for the railhead treatment trains are set by Network Rail, and on the day there will be regular communication between the operator and Network Rail over any changes to the booked schedules. I think each RHTT working has a "tick sheet" of exactly which sites (line x at location y between these mileages) are supposed to be treated, and any missed sites would be noted and require an explanation to be logged.

in terms of "fines" there would be most likely be performance penalties built into the RHTT contracts for scenarios where an RHTT diagram is cancelled or only partially completed due to an operator issue (such as driver sickness or loco fault). I don't know the exact details of how these contracts work, but in general if a freight customer doesn't get what they paid for, there is a financial consequence built into the contracts.

Submissions to Network Rail for schedules are based on agreed timescales. Outside these normal arrangements, it's possible to request last-minute schedules on a "very short term planning" basis (for requirements that can't be predicted in advance) but there is no guarantee that Network Rail will agree to them. Any attempt to organise an entire railtour at the last minute, outside of the agreed timescales, would result in a firm "no."
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top