What else should have been included in 'Network North' ?

[The Planner]

I didn't say it would be quicker from Pool than Menston. It would be more convenient for 3,000 inhabitants of Pool and another railhead car park for the many who commute into Leeds from outer Harrogate by car because they cannot find a car parking space at a railhead north of Leeds. These commuters wouldn't use Menston.

Have you seen Menston and Weeton car parks. Obviously not otherwise you wouldn't make such glib suggestion. These car parks are full before the end of the morning peak. They cannot be extended because each is surrounded by houses or other buildings on 3 sides and the railway line on the other.
Suggest a cost for compulsorily buying half a dozen prime properties around Menston station car park? I suggest nearly £4m.

Still massively cheaper than a new railway.

 

[deltic08]

Interesting. Can you share a link to the costs you quote

At last I have heard from my Network Rail friend who was involved with the Harrogate improvements in 2021. It was £2.2M. I don't expect you to believe me or him as he quotes an actual figure spent that you question.
The figure is readily available online. Do you doubt that also?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Nov 2023 ==

Still massively cheaper than a new railway.

Still massively cheaper than a new railway.

I wouldn't say massively. How can £20M more be massively even if it was possible.
Reinstating a short spur tp Pool would give more car park spaces than Menston could ever give plus a facility for 3,000 people that they don't have now and enhanse the case for a shuttle from Leeds to Horsforth with additional passengers.
You assume Pool will not increase in size and population in time.
Compare benefits and what would be provided for the money in this proposal with £87M of mostly cancelled HS2 money to improve a couple of junctions and selected widening on the A164 Beverley-Hull Road.

 

[Bald Rick]

The figure is readily available online.

a link would help…

 

[deltic08]

Again most of the line coming from the ilkley line is now built on has the junction was just before/after burley in wharfedale station and most of it is now a cycle track, walked down it a few times.
And if you go to some of the pubs in otley they have pictures of the old train station which was up the road from my flat and old maps of the railway line between the ilkley line and harrogate line.

Apart from the A660 Otley bypass and Pool station site, where is the Otley Loop built on? West of Otley it is either forested or a footpath.

 

[jonesy3001]

Apart from the A660 Otley bypass and Pool station site, where is the Otley Loop built on? West of Otley it is either forested or a footpath.

One of the tunnels is a converted house in pool area discovered it on one of walks during lockdown.

 

[The Planner]

I wouldn't say massively. How can £20M more be massively even if it was possible.
Reinstating a short spur tp Pool would give more car park spaces than Menston could ever give plus a facility for 3,000 people that they don't have now and enhanse the case for a shuttle from Leeds to Horsforth with additional passengers.
You assume Pool will not increase in size and population in time.
Compare benefits and what would be provided for the money in this proposal with £87M of mostly cancelled HS2 money to improve a couple of junctions and selected widening on the A164 Beverley-Hull Road.

Are there any plans to expand Pool as a village? I see Taylor Wimpey are looking to build 55 homes at the junction of the A658 and A659 but it also appears to be a conservation area? https://www.leeds.gov.uk/docs/pool in wharfedale final.pdf?

The neighbourhood plan indeed has a section on the closed railway on Page 36, and doesnt commit to heavy rail suggesting light rail or tram. It also appears to suggest Athrington as a location for a station. It also notes any plans are not included in the Leeds Transport strategy of 2016.

http://www.poolparishcouncil.gov.uk/_UserFiles/Files/Pool-in-Wharfedale%20Pre-Submission%20NP%20v83%20reduced.pdf

How are you comparing the benefits of Pool vs the A164 schemes, is it the £20million you have assumed vs the £87m costed scheme for the road? How do you win over the people that live in Bramble Grove, Sycamore Fold and Acorn Way who will presumably now have a station with lighting etc at the end of their back gardens?

 

[deltic08]

One of the tunnels is a converted house in pool area discovered it on one of walks during lockdown.

Just one house?
13 houses were demolished reinstating the Waverley route and 6 reinstating Bathgate to Airdrie.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Nov 2023 ==

Are there any plans to expand Pool as a village? I see Taylor Wimpey are looking to build 55 homes at the junction of the A658 and A659 but it also appears to be a conservation area? https://www.leeds.gov.uk/docs/pool in wharfedale final.pdf?

The neighbourhood plan indeed has a section on the closed railway on Page 36, and doesnt commit to heavy rail suggesting light rail or tram. It also appears to suggest Athrington as a location for a station. It also notes any plans are not included in the Leeds Transport strategy of 2016.

http://www.poolparishcouncil.gov.uk/_UserFiles/Files/Pool-in-Wharfedale%20Pre-Submission%20NP%20v83%20reduced.pdf

How are you comparing the benefits of Pool vs the A164 schemes, is it the £20million you have assumed vs the £87m costed scheme for the road? How do you win over the people that live in Bramble Grove, Sycamore Fold and Acorn Way who will presumably now have a station with lighting etc at the end of their back gardens?

25,000 houses are needed in Leeds City Region to keep the economy of Leeds ticking over with 25,000 employees needed for just white collar jobs. 10,000 are being built in East Leeds new town but that leaves 15,000 to be built elsewhere. Pool is a candidate for some if it was a railhead..
When I was at university in Leeds in the late 1960s, Leeds was the 6th largest city in England. It is now 4th behind London, Birmingham and Southampton. What surprised me is that it is bigger than Manchester.

£87M poured into a short section of road still makes it a road. £20M, or more you claim, poured into a short rail spur gives an additional facility.

I haven't personally canvassed in Pool but I know people who have and generally the majority are in favour because they think the value of their property will increase besides having a facility they don't have at the moment. Reopening Arthington station is not within walking distance of Pool and is not a site to turnback a shuttle from Leeds. Also not a site for a car park.

 

[Bantamzen]

Just one house?
13 houses were demolished reinstating the Waverley route and 6 reinstating Bathgate to Airdrie.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Nov 2023 ==


25,000 houses are needed in Leeds City Region to keep the economy of Leeds ticking over with 25,000 employees needed for just white collar jobs. 10,000 are being built in East Leeds new town but that leaves 15,000 to be built elsewhere. Pool is a candidate for some if it was a railhead..
When I was at university in Leeds in the late 1960s, Leeds was the 6th largest city in England. It is now 4th behind London, Birmingham and Southampton. What surprised me is that it is bigger than Manchester.

£87M poured into a short section of road still makes it a road. £20M, or more you claim, poured into a short rail spur gives an additional facility.

I haven't personally canvassed in Pool but I know people who have and generally the majority are in favour because they think the value of their property will increase besides having a facility they don't have at the moment. Reopening Arthington station is not within walking distance of Pool and is not a site to turnback a shuttle from Leeds. Also not a site for a car park.

I'm confused. Firstly this scheme was for the residents of Pool & Otley to have rail travel to Leeds, then it was a large part of North Yorkshire all the way up to Ripon, now its so home owners in Pool can have the value of their houses increase?

Regardless there is really no case for a Pool station and branch, especially when just down the line a Parkway to serve LBA and North West Leeds being proposed. If that gets approved then there's no chance for this proposal, and if it doesn't then there's even less chance.

 

[The Planner]

Just one house?
13 houses were demolished reinstating the Waverley route and 6 reinstating Bathgate to Airdrie.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Nov 2023 ==


25,000 houses are needed in Leeds City Region to keep the economy of Leeds ticking over with 25,000 employees needed for just white collar jobs. 10,000 are being built in East Leeds new town but that leaves 15,000 to be built elsewhere. Pool is a candidate for some if it was a railhead..
When I was at university in Leeds in the late 1960s, Leeds was the 6th largest city in England. It is now 4th behind London, Birmingham and Southampton. What surprised me is that it is bigger than Manchester.

£87M poured into a short section of road still makes it a road. £20M, or more you claim, poured into a short rail spur gives an additional facility.

I haven't personally canvassed in Pool but I know people who have and generally the majority are in favour because they think the value of their property will increase besides having a facility they don't have at the moment. Reopening Arthington station is not within walking distance of Pool and is not a site to turnback a shuttle from Leeds. Also not a site for a car park.

None of that matters if Leeds doesnt see it as a priority though. If Athrington isnt acceptable, why is it in the Pool documents? Why are you correct and the council not? Athrington is about 1000-1200m away from the village, about a 15 minute walk. How far is walking distance in your opinion?

 

[Bald Rick]

Regardless there is really no case for a Pool station and branch, especially when just down the line a Parkway to serve LBA and North West Leeds being proposed. If that gets approved then there's no chance for this proposal, and if it doesn't then there's even less chance.

To go further - a proposal for a branch and station to Pool is not in any railway strategic plan nor is it in any studies for future plans. It has no formal status, and there are no plans for it to do so. It is simply in the same category of ‘proposals’ that appear on the Speculative board from time to time - the plaything of a handful of (clearly passionate) individuals who pursue their pet project with evangelical fervour.

 

[BenS]

As the title suggests what else do you think or feel should have been included in 'Network North' ?

Ill start:

A new line from Selby - Hull via Market Weighton

I believe that there is a path from Selby to Market Weighton, and also from the opposite side of Market Weighton to Beverley (which already connects onwards to Hull). Therefore it should not be too disruptive to rebuild a railway on either of these, which would allow a railway station in Market Weighton. This would benefit the population of around 6,000.
I think it would be more disruptive/ costly to connect the two sections.