What else should have been included in 'Network North' ?

[deltic08]

@Yankee54

You are living in dreamland and nostalgia for the days before Beeching.

There is no perceivable viable business case and thus no prospect whatsoever of the re-opening of the following lines:

• Ripon to Northallerton/Thirsk
• Any part of the former line via Otley
• Ilkley-Skipton
• Skipton-Colne

There might be a case (albeit weak) for re-opening Ripon-Harrogate as a single line, with some sort of passing loop, as an extended Leeds commuter line, but any new Ripon station would probably need to be on its southern outskirts. It satisfies some of the criteria for rail re-openings previously proposed on this forum by @Altnabreac. However, affluent North Yorkshire and the northern fringes of Leeds don't merit rail re-openings on the grounds of "levelling up". Ripon is a city by name only and is actually quite a small town, with a population of under 20,000.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Nov 2023 ==

No need to tell me the bleeding obvious. Too true I am nostalgic for rail services possible in the days before I was born. Is that a hanging offense? The older I become the less I like driving.

Harrogate-Otley-Ilkley-Skipton was possible 3 times per day each way up to the 1950s on a through train without travelling via Leeds and a change of trains there. To-day it would take approximately 50 minutes to connect 2 North Yorkshire towns only 20 miles apart, considerably less than the current 90 minutes it takes now via Leeds and a change of trains there. Is that nostalgia or just wanting better connectivity?

We have proved there is a business case for reopening Harrogate-Ripon. As you say, a single line with a mid point dynamic loop, signalling for such and a two platform station at Ripon was costed in 2005 at £46M regardless of whether that included consent processes or not. This would allow for 2 tph to Leeds and providing enough footfall to make it more viable for providing 4 tph from Harrogate to Leeds.
Reopening Ripon-Northallerton would provide capacity and another route from West Yorkshire to the Northeast and Scotland avoiding congested Leeds-Micklefield. It would connect Northern's two spheres of operation only connected presently by the Newcastle-Carlisle line.
It would also provide resilience from Redcar to Manchester Airport as the hourly TPE service is regularly turned around at York or Northallerton short of Teesside when running late.

Ripon might only be a small city but a city nevertheless with a Cathedral, the only cathedral in North Yorkshire as York is a unitary authority. The latest tourist figures show visitor numbers stand at 1.4 million per annum. All come by road as they have no option to use train. Ripon population figure are rising and are estimated to be 26,000 by 2026 with 2,200 houses in the planning pipeline and no planned increase in employment. That is nearly 5x times bigger than when the decision to close the line was taken in 1963

 

[Krokodil]

Ripon might only be a small city but a city nevertheless with a Cathedral

So does St David's. Even the Victorians didn't connect that.

 

[Bald Rick]

Arup did the study and I do not remember any mention of consent processes and a cost for this.

In which case it was excluded. A fairly serious omission.

What is your estimate for the Pool in Wharfedale branch.

The whole job - around £50m at current prices. You’d spend at least 30% of that before even using a shovel.

What does Consent entail?

For Pool, making an application for an Order under the Transport and Works Act to construct and operate a new railway. For Ripon, seeking a Development Consent Order, or possibly an Act of Parliament.

In both cases you will need to have a proven outline business case; outline designs complete; a whole host of studies completed by experts in fields as varied as noise, archaeology, water, traffic, biodiversity, arboriculture, planning policy, and many more; an explicit statement of expected funding; and two (preferably three) rounds of public consultation, including how you intend to settle any objections. And more. All to an unimpeachable standard such that when a KC acting on behalf of an objector challenges you on any of it at the public inquiry (or parliamentary committee hearing) your KC (who you will be paying around £2-3k per day for) will have a stronger argument.

Drainage was renewed on the Okehampton line and geomembrane fitted under the ballast still for approximately £3.5M per mile.

Geotextile is cheap. Drainage less so. Confirming ground conditions that you know nothing about, on land you dont own - expensive.

I take your point but 3 switches and all the signalling added to the existing Harrogate panel was only £2.2M

If you mean the Horsforth turnback, the signalling was almost free as it was done at the time of resignalling. The cost was basically the track; that was 12 years and +60% of RPI ago.

The only property anywhere near is the station masters house in the former triangle of junctions at Arthington and that is next to the Harrogate line with up to 4 tph each way in the peaks.

And the one next door. And the business next to that. And the houses on The Tower Drive and Acorn Way. And the business and home just south thereof: presumably you were expecting to build the access road on their drive and backfill their lake?

We have proved there is a business case for reopening Harrogate-Ripon.

I‘m afraid you haven‘t. And there wont be for the £3-400m it would cost.

 

[deltic08]

So does St David's. Even the Victorians didn't connect that.

There is a difference between a settlement in the far southwest of Wales and a settlement within the heavily populated Leeds City Region. Anyone with intelligence should know that is not a good comparison. How many inhabitants of St Davids commute daily to neighbouring cities? !300 per day commute out of Ripon.

 

[Krokodil]

There is a difference between a settlement in the far southwest of Wales and a settlement within the heavily populated Leeds City Region. Anyone with intelligence should know that is not a good comparison. How many inhabitants of St Davids commute daily to neighbouring cities? !300 per day commute out of Ripon.

I was responding simply to the point that it has a cathedral and is technically a city. I was pointing out that this wasn't a valid reason of itself.

 

[deltic08]

Geotextile is cheap. Drainage less so. Confirming ground conditions that you know nothing about, on land you dont own - expensive.

If you mean the Horsforth turnback, the signalling was almost free as it was done at the time of resignalling. The cost was basically the track; that was 12 years and +60% of RPI ago.

And the one next door. And the business next to that. And the houses on The Tower Drive and Acorn Way. And the business and home just south thereof: presumably you were expecting to build the access road on their drive and backfill their lake?

Geotextile may be cheap but putting it there isn't but still the cost of relaying was still only just over £3M per mile.

No I meant three turnouts and signalling at Harrogate was £2.2M.

I take it that you have not visited this part of Pool or spoken to inhabitants living in these roads? Campaigners, including a retired BR driver living here, have in the last 15 years or so and the majority are happy to have a station on their door step with a 2 tph service into Leeds.

Not for me to decide where the access road goes or if a lake should be backfilled. Optioneering is left to the planners.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Nov 2023 ==

I was responding simply to the point that it has a cathedral and is technically a city. I was pointing out that this wasn't a valid reason of itself.

Sorry my mistake. There are many more commuters out of Ripon each day along the A61 than 1300. 1300 is 50% of drivers who said they could convert their journey to rail if the line was reinstated from Ripon to Harrogate.

 

[Bald Rick]

Geotextile may be cheap but putting it there isn't

It is. I’ve done it myself (literally!).

but still the cost of relaying was still only just over £3M per mile.

You are consistently missing the point that relaying a track that already exists is a rather more simple exercise to laying track on land that you do not own, do not know what condition it is in, and do not have have permission to turn into a railway .

No I meant three turnouts and signalling at Harrogate was £2.2M.

When was this done?

I take it that you have not visited this part of Pool or spoken to inhabitants living in these roads? Campaigners, including a retired BR driver living here, have in the last 15 years or so and the majority are happy to have a station on their door step with a 2 tph service into Leeds.

Of course not. Presumably the campaigners have explained precisely to the locals what it means to them during construction, the effects on their property, etc. Besides, even if the majority were happy, there‘s still the minority who will have a say.

Not for me to decide where the access road goes or if a lake should be backfilled. Optioneering is left to the planners.

As is estimating.

lets leave this here, its not going to happen, and the people of Pool might be getting worried.

 

[Bantamzen]

I thought 40 spaces and then add to if necessary for the eastern side of Otley. I presumed the western side would use Menston. There is plenty of land available.

In all honesty if you are only catering for the eastern side of Otley & Pool, then there really is no case whatsoever for a spur and P&R station at Pool. Between them the populations of Otley & Pool barely reaches 16K (Otley 13.6K, Pool 2.2K), and if at least half, in fact probably most of Otley (as most of the residential area is to the west of the town) continue to use Menston, the X84, or drive, that doesn't leave a lot of people left to justify your proposals, especially when there are plenty of other proposals with much better business cases. If Otley is to ever have improved public transport it will only come from any potential WY tram network, and even that is a long way off.

 

[jonesy3001]

With me it depends which bus is at the bus station first if it's the 34 I catch that to Menston to get the train to Leeds or catch the X84 is I stay on that and get off at headrow in the city centre and walk to leeds railway station.
Buses that go through pool now are the X52 to harrogate but that's a 9 to 5 service or the A3 to the airport.

 

[The Planner]

In all honesty if you are only catering for the eastern side of Otley & Pool, then there really is no case whatsoever for a spur and P&R station at Pool. Between them the populations of Otley & Pool barely reaches 16K (Otley 13.6K, Pool 2.2K), and if at least half, in fact probably most of Otley (as most of the residential area is to the west of the town) continue to use Menston, the X84, or drive, that doesn't leave a lot of people left to justify your proposals, especially when there are plenty of other proposals with much better business cases. If Otley is to ever have improved public transport it will only come from any potential WY tram network, and even that is a long way off.

So there is the potential for any new railway to abstract from Menston and not actually create new users? Its 15/16 minutes to Leeds from Menston, how long would it be from Pool? Probably about the same time as Weeton? So 24 minutes?

 

[jonesy3001]

Again most of the line coming from the ilkley line is now built on has the junction was just before/after burley in wharfedale station and most of it is now a cycle track, walked down it a few times.
And if you go to some of the pubs in otley they have pictures of the old train station which was up the road from my flat and old maps of the railway line between the ilkley line and harrogate line.

 

[deltic08]

It is. I’ve done it myself (literally!).



You are consistently missing the point that relaying a track that already exists is a rather more simple exercise to laying track on land that you do not own, do not know what condition it is in, and do not have have permission to turn into a railway .



When was this done?



Of course not. Presumably the campaigners have explained precisely to the locals what it means to them during construction, the effects on their property, etc. Besides, even if the majority were happy, there‘s still the minority who will have a say.




As is estimating.

lets leave this here, its not going to happen, and the people of Pool might be getting worried.

I have put geotextile down too but didn't do the groundwork preparation to lay it on. Did you do that as well?

No, I am not missing the point. I am fully aware of how much preparation a formation requires. I watched construction of the Borders railway for long enough. My son used to live in Stowe.

The alterations at Harrogate were done the last two weekends in November 2021.

They would have said as much as North Yorkshire told the people of Harrogate about the nuisance caused to them by construction of the northeast bypass. They only told about the advantages.
I know you are being Devil's Advocate but it would be a dead end single track branch line only half a mile long with low speed trains, short in actual construction and relatively quiet in operation especially if electrified.

I have done no estimating. All figure I have quoted have been actual costs incurred by Network Rail in Harrogate alterations or costings done by Arup, JMP (now Sustra) or lecturers at Leeds University Dept of Transport Planning. You are questioning their estimating?

The people of Pool have known about this campaign for over 30 years not to just Pool but the intention to rejoin Otley by rail from both directions in a loop. You make it seem impossible but it is possible depending on priorities of Leeds City Councillors who at the moment would prefer to waste megabucks on a new eastern bypass costing £110M for 4 miles that has turned out to be a white elephant as no one is using it 6 months after opening or a new station at the White Rose Centre than build a short branch line and station within walking distance of more people.

You might want to leave it there because you disagree with this campaign and the disputed cost, but it will not go away. You are outnumbered by those in favour.

 

[The Planner]

You might want to leave it there because you disagree with this campaign and the disputed cost, but it will not go away. You are outnumbered by those in favour.

Still doesn't mean it will happen though.

 

[Krokodil]

Still doesn't mean it will happen though.

The same applies to pretty much everything that made the actual list. Except of course for the things that have already been built.

 

[whoosh]

Surprised this wasn't on the Network North list!
(What an utter farcical document!)

 

[Bald Rick]

I have put geotextile down too but didn't do the groundwork preparation to lay it on. Did you do that as well?

I have. Not driven the actual bulldozers, but specified it, been on site, and paid the bills.

The alterations at Harrogate were done the last two weekends in November 2021.

Interesting. Can you share a link to the costs you quote?

All figure I have quoted have been actual costs incurred by Network Rail in Harrogate alterations or costings done by Arup, JMP (now Sustra) or lecturers at Leeds University Dept of Transport Planning. You are questioning their estimating?

Yes.

You are outnumbered by those in favour.

One person usually is outnumbered. Let us all know what the support is after the first public consultstion is done.

 

[deltic08]

Still doesn't mean it will happen though.

It won't happen if left to the naysayers on this forum.

Explain this and not in a one word put down. Why is it that money is always found for repairs/emergency repairs/improvements to the infrastructure in their £millions such as Reading station, £800M, Dawlish seawall repairs/resilience work, £180M, Kins Cross roof repairs, £500M, Wennington grade separation when previously Spalding-March was open and available but closed as unnecessary, £80M, Leeds platform 0, £180M when there were cheaper and better options etc etc ?. Those with a railway always get more than those without yet have to pay for the privilege of not having a railhead and paying more to reach a railhead.
My railheads are now 10,11, 19 and 25 miles away, with the nearest two being useless for journey's I regularly take, instead of being on the doorstep and all charge between £5 and £20 a day to park. Unreliability, crowding, parking charges and high fares are the reasons I don't use the railway anymore. Motoring is cheaper and more convenient for me.

£40M (not my estimate) for a half mile branch line to Pool in Wharfedale is peanuts in the scheme of things and especially peanuts compared to the £36billion saved by cancelling the northwestern leg of HS2. Just a 1,000th in my reckoning and as important to people of Pool and north west Leeds as those proposals made by Sunak in his party conference speech.

 

[Bald Rick]

Why is it that money is always found for repairs/emergency repairs/improvements to the infrastructure in their £millions such as Reading station, £800M, Dawlish seawall repairs/resilience work, £180M, Kins Cross roof repairs, £500M, Wennington grade separation when previously Spalding-March was open and available but closed as unnecessary, £80M, Leeds platform 0, £180M when there were cheaper and better options etc etc ?.

Its really quite simple. All those examples you quote* have been studied, analysed, assessed, and proven to have a viable business case on a socio economic basis. Your proposals don’t, and I’m afraid are very unlikely to, ever.

* noting that you clearly have a major chip on your shoulder about this, but you have rather put your own slant on the projects you mention. Kings Cross was rather more than some roof repairs - it was building a completely new concourse and transforming the experience for the 100,000 people who use it every day. Werrington does much more than Spalding March did, and the latter has been closed for 40 years (when there was absolutely no prospect of the traffic that would use it now). What were the cheaper better options? Do you not think other options were considered and scrutinised? Why dont you get a job in the rail industry and prove all the strategists, estimators, economists, planners and operational experts wrong?

 

[The Planner]

It won't happen if left to the naysayers on this forum.

Explain this and not in a one word put down. Why is it that money is always found for repairs/emergency repairs/improvements to the infrastructure in their £millions such as Reading station, £800M, Dawlish seawall repairs/resilience work, £180M, Kins Cross roof repairs, £500M, Wennington grade separation when previously Spalding-March was open and available but closed as unnecessary, £80M, Leeds platform 0, £180M when there were cheaper and better options etc etc ?. Those with a railway always get more than those without yet have to pay for the privilege of not having a railhead and paying more to reach a railhead.
My railheads are now 10,11, 19 and 25 miles away, with the nearest two being useless for journey's I regularly take, instead of being on the doorstep and all charge between £5 and £20 a day to park. Unreliability, crowding, parking charges and high fares are the reasons I don't use the railway anymore. Motoring is cheaper and more convenient for me.

£40M (not my estimate) for a half mile branch line to Pool in Wharfedale is peanuts in the scheme of things and especially peanuts compared to the £36billion saved by cancelling the northwestern leg of HS2. Just a 1,000th in my reckoning and as important to people of Pool and north west Leeds as those proposals made by Sunak in his party conference speech.

They had a better return on the investment. Its as simple as that. Reading was getting 17 million passenger pre COVID and also the remodelling releasing capacity. Dawlish keeps Devon and Cornwall connected. Kings Cross as a major terminus with 35 million passengers. Wennington released capacity on the ECML which has a high value compared to when March Spalding closed in 1982. What were the better and cheaper options for Leeds? In terms of Pool, can you comment on what I posted previously in reply to Bantamzem.

 

[SuspectUsual]

Platforms on the Northallerton avoider for the Middlesbrough trains

 

[The Ham]

There's two things missing from the Network North document which should have been included:

1) Leeds Tram
2) reopening the Helston Branch

Yes I know 1 was listed, but only once, and I know 2 is about as far south as you can get but neither apear to be an issue.

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

Its really quite simple. All those examples you quote* have been studied, analysed, assessed, and proven to have a viable business case on a socio economic basis. Your proposals don’t, and I’m afraid are very unlikely to, ever.

* noting that you clearly have a major chip on your shoulder about this, but you have rather put your own slant on the projects you mention. Kings Cross was rather more than some roof repairs - it was building a completely new concourse and transforming the experience for the 100,000 people who use it every day. Werrington does much more than Spalding March did, and the latter has been closed for 40 years (when there was absolutely no prospect of the traffic that would use it now). What were the cheaper better options? Do you not think other options were considered and scrutinised? Why dont you get a job in the rail industry and prove all the strategists, estimators, economists, planners and operational experts wrong?

Rail industry planners have a mixed track record though, don't they? Who authorised the Doncaster flyover just as the coal traffic was ending or the fiasco of the Ordsall Chord. I went along to the consultation for the later at Manchester Town Hall to point out the obvious pratfalls of the conflicting movements only to be told it was all in hand. Well it wasn't and isn't. The money would have been better spent on flyovers at Slade Lane / Edgeley No. 2 or improving the terrible passenger environment at Piccadilly platforms 13/14.

Who authorised the fiasco of the South Manchester resignalling? Cheadle Hulme to Crewe was shut for months (at great personal inconvenience to me) and the venerable SBs at Stockport still soldier on. We are now stuck with non-standard kit that still has its 'moments'

We are told how marvellous Project Speed was for Okehampton - so why wasn't NR doing it all along? On how many prior projects was the taxpayer ripped off by overly complex procedures?

 

[Krokodil]

Rail industry planners have a mixed track record though, don't they? Who authorised the Doncaster flyover just as the coal traffic was ending or the fiasco of the Ordsall Chord. I went along to the consultation for the later at Manchester Town Hall to point out the obvious pratfalls of the conflicting movements only to be told it was all in hand. Well it wasn't and isn't. The money would have been better spent on flyovers at Slade Lane / Edgeley No. 2 or improving the terrible passenger environment at Piccadilly platforms 13/14.

The chord isn't the problem. It's not Water Street Junction or even Castlefield Junction that cause the service to snarl up. It's Oxford Road itself. Because of the constricted layout there are only really two usable through platforms. Unlike Piccadilly (which also only has two through platforms) the constrained length really restricts throughput and the fact that in order to exit the bay platform trains have to block both lines make things worse.

It wasn't the Ordsall Chord that was the failure, it was that they didn't sort out Oxford Road.

 

[daodao]

It wasn't the Ordsall Chord that was the failure, it was that they didn't sort out Oxford Road.

Trains using the Ordsall Chord pass through all 5 of the remaining Manchester city centre stations. Given that station capacity in central Manchester is restricted because of the closure of Manchester Central, Exchange and Mayfield stations and the down-sizing of Victoria, that is profligate. Rail capacity issues in Manchester would be assisted by mothballing the Ordsall Chord for regular use. Trains from the Standedge line do not need to use the Ordsall Chord or Castlefield line to serve Piccadilly.

 

[Bald Rick]

Rail industry planners have a mixed track record though, don't they?

I wouldn‘t say mixed - the rail industry gets a lot, lot more right in investment matters than it gets wrong. Funnily enough in your examples you’ve picked three that I have personally attempted to intervene in, without success.

If you can find any major business (or individual) that never makes a mistake or an investment they regret, id like to see it.

 

[The Planner]

And lets be fair, May 18 was only a disaster because people didnt want to listen to people telling them that beforehand.

 

[deltic08]

So there is the potential for any new railway to abstract from Menston and not actually create new users? Its 15/16 minutes to Leeds from Menston, how long would it be from Pool? Probably about the same time as Weeton? So 24 minutes?

Twenty years ago it was the wish of WYPTE to have a regular shuttle of trains between Leeds and Horsforth stopping at Burley Road, Headingley, Woodside when built, and Horsforth. Provision was made for this when the Harrogate line was resignalled in 2013 by relaying the siding with full signalling for turning back with passenger trains. It was their intention to electrify to Horsforth only and not Harrogate.
Along came the urgency to spend money originally provided for trolley buses in Leeds and the proposal to build Horsforth mark 2 to use for transfer to the airport in a vey unsuitable deep cutting to the south of Bramhope tunnel entrance. The original plan for a Leeds-Horsforth shuttle, would not reach the new station unless the service was extended northwards.
Many of us in the West and North Yorkshire group Action Yorkshire Transport (previously Campaign for Better Transport) including two transport planners from Leeds university put forward a proposal to reinstate the spur to Pool in Wharfedale for turning back to Leeds instead of at Horsforth. They costed the proposal in 2017/18 at approximately £17M.
Pool was chosen as it was the only place short of Harrogate where it could be, the possibility of extending to Otley eventually, the settlement of Pool would have a railway on its doorstep, be used as a P&R station for the surrounding area to compliment Weeton that only has parking for a dozen cars (commuters from as far away as Ripon and Nidderdale try Weeton when Hormbeam Park and Pannal car parks are full only to find Weeton is full as well and have to continue into Leeds by car)
Yes It would be a slightly longer journey than Menston to Leeds but how much longer would it be when the time it takes to get from Pool or the eastern side of Otley to Menston is added on?
Menston station car park is regularly full each weekday so a spur to Pool would give an additional railhead car park. Just because Pool would be 8 minutes longer into Leeds is no reason to dismiss the proposal. Don't forget the other stations between Pool and Leeds would benefit from a 4tph service.

 

[The Planner]

Twenty years ago it was the wish of WYPTE to have a regular shuttle of trains between Leeds and Horsforth stopping at Burley Road, Headingley, Woodside when built, and Horsforth. Provision was made for this when the Harrogate line was resignalled in 2013 by relaying the siding with full signalling for turning back with passenger trains. It was their intention to electrify to Horsforth only and not Harrogate.
Along came the urgency to spend money originally provided for trolley buses in Leeds and the proposal to build Horsforth mark 2 to use for transfer to the airport in a vey unsuitable deep cutting to the south of Bramhope tunnel entrance. The original plan for a Leeds-Horsforth shuttle, would not reach the new station unless the service was extended northwards.
Many of us in the West and North Yorkshire group Action Yorkshire Transport (previously Campaign for Better Transport) including two transport planners from Leeds university put forward a proposal to reinstate the spur to Pool in Wharfedale for turning back to Leeds instead of at Horsforth. They costed the proposal in 2017/18 at approximately £17M.
Pool was chosen as it was the only place short of Harrogate where it could be, the possibility of extending to Otley eventually, the settlement of Pool would have a railway on its doorstep, be used as a P&R station for the surrounding area to compliment Weeton that only has parking for a dozen cars (commuters from as far away as Ripon and Nidderdale try Weeton when Hormbeam Park and Pannal car parks are full only to find Weeton is full as well and have to continue into Leeds by car)
Yes It would be a slightly longer journey than Menston to Leeds but how much longer would it be when the time it takes to get from Pool or the eastern side of Otley to Menston is added on?
Menston station car park is regularly full each weekday so a spur to Pool would give an additional railhead car park. Just because Pool would be 8 minutes longer into Leeds is no reason to dismiss the proposal. Don't forget the other stations between Pool and Leeds would benefit from a 4tph service.

Other stations could have the service increased if the demand was there regardless though. Increasing the size of Menston amd Weeton car park would also be cheaper by a significant magnitude. The generalised journey time isnt going to significantly decreased with the capital spend.

 

[deltic08]

Other stations could have the service increased if the demand was there regardless though. Increasing the size of Menston amd Weeton car park would also be cheaper by a significant magnitude. The generalised journey time isnt going to significantly decreased with the capital spend.

I didn't say it would be quicker from Pool than Menston. It would be more convenient for 3,000 inhabitants of Pool and another railhead car park for the many who commute into Leeds from outer Harrogate by car because they cannot find a car parking space at a railhead north of Leeds. These commuters wouldn't use Menston.

Have you seen Menston and Weeton car parks. Obviously not otherwise you wouldn't make such glib suggestion. These car parks are full before the end of the morning peak. They cannot be extended because each is surrounded by houses or other buildings on 3 sides and the railway line on the other.
Suggest a cost for compulsorily buying half a dozen prime properties around Menston station car park? I suggest nearly £4m.

 

[jonesy3001]

I didn't say it would be quicker from Pool than Menston. It would be more convenient for 3,000 inhabitants of Pool and another railhead car park for the many who commute into Leeds from outer Harrogate by car because they cannot find a car parking space at a railhead north of Leeds. These commuters wouldn't use Menston.

Have you seen Menston and Weeton car parks. Obviously not otherwise you wouldn't make such glib suggestion. These car parks are full before the end of the morning peak. They cannot be extended because each is surrounded by houses or other buildings on 3 sides and the railway line on the other.
Suggest a cost for compulsorily buying half a dozen prime properties around Menston station car park? I suggest nearly £4m.

Most of the car park at menston is shut off due to them extending platform 1.