What efficiencies could GBR bring?

[AlanRailer]

If Network Rail is anything to go by, costs will massively increase.
Why have 2 people working when you can milk it for 10?

Though normally I seem to see about 1 Network Rail worker for every 10 people standing around looking important.

 

[Robin Edwards]

I care about three things - quality of service, value to me as a passenger and value to me as a taxpayer. The service can be superb but if I can't afford to use it (which is true of peak time long distance services in the UK) it serves me no purpose.

Generally economies of scale will mean operating the railway as one is cheaper than farming bits of it out.

Well said. Most responses have been inward facing but railways are run as a public service so Value for ££ and Reliability are what stand out for me.

Does anyone share my thoughts that under a single GBR operator, service diversions could increase and service cancellations decrease?

 

[JonathanH]

Does anyone share my thoughts that under a single GBR operator, service diversions could increase and service cancellations decrease?

That is going to take time. You really need to have more frontline staff, and to make that happen ability to cover work. Even on networks where there is no 'multiple operator' running, the railway can't sensibly recover from disruption at present - for example, even though the lines into London Victoria reopened early evening last night, whole service groups did not resume until this morning.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Does anyone share my thoughts that under a single GBR operator, service diversions could increase and service cancellations decrease?

Not sure that will happen but diverting without losing ticket validity will be easier.

If they are pruning some intercity services during the school holidays it could be easier to arrange something like a 9 car 80x from LNER, driven by an LNER driver and conducted by an EMR one, to go to Skeggy.

 

[eldomtom2]

The latest order (Transpennine) has trains with a 90 mile battery range. That's a game-changer for the economics of electrification.

There's a big asterisk there and that's that they're only intended to go 45 miles off-wire between charges to not strain the batteries. A return journey on a line of 45 miles is evidently considered too long for a BEMU to make on its own without charging at the end.

 

[Sorcerer]

Which means an absolutely massive training programme:

All ex-Avanti x weeks learning 220/221
All ex-Avanti x weeks learning Bhm to Reading & Cov to Leamington
All ex-XC x weeks learning 390
All ex-XC x weeks learning Cov to Euston (& Soho-Stechford plus??)
All ex-XC x weeks learning Stoke/Staff - TV - Rugby

And then find ways of everybody doing each others work with their own T&Cs and retaining all that route knowledge.

And all to what end and at how much cost to the treasury?

In terms of what end, it would providing the maximum amount of flexibility available within a depot. As it stands now if there is a CrossCountry driver at Manchester who calls in sick and there's no spare, nothing can be done. But CrossCountry and Avanti drivers at Manchester both have common route knowledge over Manchester to Birmingham, so while an Avanti driver couldn't simply step in, under GBR with these merged depots you could have an intercity driver who normally works London diagrams step in to take it to Reading, or at least as far as Birmingham where another spare can be called in.

It's not something that I've properly stress-tested on the forums yet but I am prepared to make a separate thread about it specifically.

The cost to the treasury is the biggest obstacle here, and to be fair this might be what actually shuts down the idea if anything.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Yesterday at 14:10 ==

I see them on regular UK-focussed pages, not railway-focussed at all!

Well that's good then I suppose, putting pressure on Labour to transition away from ROSCOs means a more efficient railway in the long-term. But truthfully I still wouldn't consider it a vote-winner in the grand scheme of things. A sensible policy, just not a headline one.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Well that's good then I suppose, putting pressure on Labour to transition away from ROSCOs means a more efficient railway in the long-term. But truthfully I still wouldn't consider it a vote-winner in the grand scheme of things. A sensible policy, just not a headline one.

I suppose it's a trade off between cheaper now and cheaper later, just like buying a car using money you have/a personal loan vs. PCP.

Had privatisation not happened, there would be a lot of stock around now that was long since paid off and so was free in effect, for instance - Mk4s, 15x...

 

[Sorcerer]

I suppose it's a trade off between cheaper now and cheaper later, just like buying a car using money you have/a personal loan vs. PCP.

Had privatisation not happened, there would be a lot of stock around now that was long since paid off and so was free in effect, for instance - Mk4s, 15x...

It certainly would make cascading fleets easier I'm sure. Your analogy of buying a car is interesting because the original idea of ROSCOs was that private operators could make them compete to offer the best available trains like a company leasing cars. The obviously glaring problem here is that trains aren't cars, and if for example you are in a situation where you wanted to run 125mph over the WCML, you needed a tilting train, which meant you need a Pendolino, of which there was only. So in that sense Angel Trains ceased to be a train rental company and more of a rolling stock landlord.

 

[SynthD]

All these announcements are shaping GBR's mode of operation, but there is as yet no "guiding mind" (unless you count Peter Hendy) representing the organisation which will deliver the strategy.

Maybe they are trying to build something free of a personality, as it's bigger than any one person. He must be near retirement. The guide is Treasury.

If they are pruning some intercity services during the school holidays it could be easier to arrange something like a 9 car 80x from LNER, driven by an LNER driver and conducted by an EMR one, to go to Skeggy.

If that was requested now, or before Covid, what would happen? They'd see if the EMR pilot is signing on at one end and has a rest room at the other end of their section? Someone would be signing off on two drivers pay for movement of one train?

 

[Snow1964]

Dft has confirmed all future rolling stock will have level boarding

New publicly-run trains will aim to have level boarding as standard to improve accessibility, as part of the government’s strategy for new trains, announced 28 September 2026.

Great British Railways (GBR) will make unassisted level boarding between the train and platform a baseline expectation for all new trains wherever possible, in a move towards greater accessibility on the rail network.

This means passengers with disabilities, mobility difficulties and others who need assistance, such as parents with pushchairs and those travelling with luggage, will benefit from much easier journeys, giving everyone more freedom to travel independently.

Don’t mind the gap: level boarding commitment for new trains

Disabled passengers and families are set to benefit from unassisted level boarding as the standard on new Great British Railways (GBR) trains.

www.gov.uk

 

[SargeNpton]

Dft has confirmed all future rolling stock will have level boarding

Don’t mind the gap: level boarding commitment for new trains

Disabled passengers and families are set to benefit from unassisted level boarding as the standard on new Great British Railways (GBR) trains.

www.gov.uk

Have fun levelling all platforms at far flung stations (which has been discussed in other threads).

 

[Harpo]

Dft has confirmed all future rolling stock will have level boarding

Don’t mind the gap: level boarding commitment for new trains

Disabled passengers and families are set to benefit from unassisted level boarding as the standard on new Great British Railways (GBR) trains.

www.gov.uk

Lots of wiggle room there - ‘Will aim to have’ … ‘all new trains wherever possible’ ….etc..

 

[Sorcerer]

Dft has confirmed all future rolling stock will have level boarding

Don’t mind the gap: level boarding commitment for new trains

Disabled passengers and families are set to benefit from unassisted level boarding as the standard on new Great British Railways (GBR) trains.

www.gov.uk

Pretty sensible decision in my opinion. Bombardier already proved it possible on the London Underground subsurface stock, Stadler have proven it possible on the main line railway, and Alstom are continuing that with the new TPE stock procurement. It might mean an end to a more traditional intercity unit with full end doors on each end of a saloon area (which I do like to be fair), a functional railway takes priority. Plus Stadler's SMILE/Giruno shows you can still make a nice express passenger unit with level boarding even if the doors are in the middle rather than the end.

 

[jack31439]

Sections from the strategy outline which seem like good ideas to me are those around logistics and supply chains, have a nationwide inventory and strategy for obsolescence. Also the notes about manufacturer and operator contracts such as TSSSA agreements, and how the current set up is uncompetitive. Hopefully allows more freedom with future contracts. Very little in the way of changing existing deals and fleet contracts, but I guess at least a new footing with future financing, contract and plans might yield benefits in the long term.

 

[Elecman]

Back to efficiencies, one thing I think will be abolished is the Chiltern East West Rail depot at Bletchley, without a member of staff there ever having operated an East West Rail train in service. There is no point having two different GBR staff depots at the same location. It might as well be folded into the existing Bletchley crew depot (and avoid putting a building on the short stay car park as was I think the intention).

The Bletchley EWR train crew depot is based on spare land at the side of the WMT maintenance depot

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Surely you would need less managers and directors?

Leadership and control staff are the only areas of pure overlap. Anyone on access contracts wont be needed but there small beer.

The reason why the railway cost so much is decades of trying to make it ever safer and less risk adverse and its highly unlikely that any of that will be rolled back. Even the Williams review didnt hold a candle to large savings from integrating track & train.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Dft has confirmed all future rolling stock will have level boarding.

Don’t mind the gap: level boarding commitment for new trains

Disabled passengers and families are set to benefit from unassisted level boarding as the standard on new Great British Railways (GBR) trains.

www.gov.uk

Pretty sensible decision in my opinion.

In my opinion too.