What does this sign mean?

[Torfaen]

On the northbound line between Newport and Cwmbran, both the black-on-yellow 40 signs for a longstanding TSR have been replaced by a diagonal black line on the same yellow background. The T sign at the end of the restriction is still in place.
Presumably the diagonal line means the speed restriction is not in force, but why not just remove the signs altogether? Or are the signs to inform drivers that the TSR may be reintroduced shortly?

It's not clear to me why the restriction was originally applied. It is on plain line on one side only, the ride over it is smooth, and no culverts that I can see.

 

[JN114]

It’s referred to as a Spate board, and yes means previously published TSR at this location no longer in force.

 

[Snow1964]

Presumably the diagonal line means the speed restriction is not in force, but why not just remove the signs altogether? Or are the signs to inform drivers that the TSR may be reintroduced shortly?

It dates back to a serious derailment (forgotten where, think it was near Nuneaton about 50 years ago), the sign had fallen over and/or light had gone out. Driver assumed the temporary speed restriction had gone as wasn't marked, but was still there. Hit a wonky temporary track with 20mph at nearer 90mph (forgot exact details).

Afterwards it was decided to formally indicate cleared temporary restriction for couple of weeks afterwards, and the speed number is replaced by diagonal stripe. This was when weekly notices were still paper and displayed at a depot, long before could have live up to date version on an IPad

EDIT have found report, it was Nuneaton June 1975

https://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/documents/DoT_Nuneaton1975.pdf

 

[High Dyke]

It dates back to a serious derailment (forgotten where, think it was near Nuneaton about 50 years ago), the sign had fallen over and/or light had gone out. Driver assumed the temporary speed restriction had gone as wasn't marked, but was still there. Hit a wonky temporary track with 20mph at nearer 90mph (forgot exact details).

Afterwards it was decided to formally indicate cleared temporary restriction for couple of weeks afterwards, and the speed number is replaced by diagonal stripe. This was when weekly notices were still paper and displayed at a depot, long before could have live up to date version on an IPad

EDIT have found report, it was Nuneaton June 1975

https://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/documents/DoT_Nuneaton1975.pdf

It was Nuneaton. Accident occurred 6th June 1975. The train approached a 20mph restriction at four times that speed, according to the report. In mitigation the lights on the warning board had failed, the driver assumed the restriction had been lifted. Three other trains had previously passed the restriction correctly, but failed to report the defective warning board.

Link to the accident report here: https://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/docsummary.php?docID=272

 

[skyhigh]

This was when weekly notices were still paper

They still are, in a lot of places.

 

[BAFRA77]

It was Nuneaton. Accident occurred 6th June 1975. The train approached a 20mph restriction at four times that speed, according to the report. In mitigation the lights on the warning board had failed, the driver assumed the restriction had been lifted. Three other trains had previously passed the restriction correctly, but failed to report the defective warning board.

Link to the accident report here: https://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/docsummary.php?docID=272

There's also an episode on it from the brilliant Signals To Danger Podcast - which is written and presented by a member of this very forum

Signals To Danger - Nuneaton – June 1975

 

[ChilliSauce]

It dates back to a serious derailment (forgotten where, think it was near Nuneaton about 50 years ago), the sign had fallen over and/or light had gone out. Driver assumed the temporary speed restriction had gone as wasn't marked, but was still there. Hit a wonky temporary track with 20mph at nearer 90mph (forgot exact details).

Afterwards it was decided to formally indicate cleared temporary restriction for couple of weeks afterwards, and the speed number is replaced by diagonal stripe. This was when weekly notices were still paper and displayed at a depot, long before could have live up to date version on an IPad

EDIT have found report, it was Nuneaton June 1975

https://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/documents/DoT_Nuneaton1975.pdf

Nuneaton was a Gas Bottle Empty and the auto switch over to the reserve bottle had been disabled. What makes the accident also notable is a number of trains had passed over the section observing the speed restriction in place despite aware that the gas lights for the restriction were extinguished. Had those drivers actually followed the rule book and stopped to report the lights out there is a real possibility that that accident would never have happened as the signaller would started to of cautioned trains through the section..

I can't remember now if the sleeper train in question was running late because of an earlier loco failure on that train or had been trapped behind another sleeper that had suffered a loco failure.

 

[wilsontown]

SPATE board - "Speed Previously Advised Terminated Early" if I remember correctly.

 

[JN114]

SPATE board - "Speed Previously Advised Terminated Early" if I remember correctly.

A bit of a Backronym myth I’m afraid

When the railway used to use telegraph to communicate, they had code words for everything to reduce the number of characters they were charged for.

These had to be words with no real meaning, or where their true meaning wouldn’t make sense in the context.

“SPATE” was the code word for speed restriction rescinded; over time and misunderstanding people have taken it to be an acronym; but it isn’t.

And when you think about it, even with the very formal language used in Victorian Britain for official things like this - it’s not actually a phrasing anyone would use. Similarly “CAPE” and “Cancelled at Point of Entry”

 

[Scotty Dog]

You better let the RSSB know then as they use that very acronym in the Rule Book to describe a SPATE board.

 

[DelW]

It's possible that over many years, trainers have suggested the back-formations to their learners, as a way of remembering what each (arbitrary) word meant. Then eventually the mnemonic becomes the accepted origin.

 

[Sheffcaster202]

A bit of a Backronym myth I’m afraid

When the railway used to use telegraph to communicate, they had code words for everything to reduce the number of characters they were charged for.

These had to be words with no real meaning, or where their true meaning wouldn’t make sense in the context.

“SPATE” was the code word for speed restriction rescinded; over time and misunderstanding people have taken it to be an acronym; but it isn’t.

And when you think about it, even with the very formal language used in Victorian Britain for official things like this - it’s not actually a phrasing anyone would use. Similarly “CAPE” and “Cancelled at Point of Entry”

Extract attached from RS521 section 8.1 regarding spate signage

You better let the RSSB know then as they use that very acronym in the Rule Book to describe a SPATE board.

Attached to show!

 

[Dunfanaghy Roa]

As they have been referenced above (from the 1958 BTC 'Standard Codes for Telegrams'):

SPATE - Trains between following points may run at ordinary speed on and after date named. Arrange and reply.
CAPE - Undermentioned train will not run. Advise all concerned, and note.

In both cases (and many others) the instruction in the second sentence is all too often forgotten!

Pat

 

[SargeNpton]

As they have been referenced above (from the 1958 BTC 'Standard Codes for Telegrams'):

SPATE - Trains between following points may run at ordinary speed on and after date named. Arrange and reply.
CAPE - Undermentioned train will not run. Advise all concerned, and note.

In both cases (and many others) the instruction in the second sentence is all too often forgotten!

Pat

In my copy of the Telegram codes that last sentence for SPATE reads: "Withdraw restriction and reply". Were you reading the wording for SPEDWAY?

 

[SuspectUsual]

I can't remember now if the sleeper train in question was running late because of an earlier loco failure on that train or had been trapped behind another sleeper that had suffered a loco failure

From memory it left London on time, the loco (class 86 I think) failed somewhere around Watford, another 86 was summoned (from Willesden??) and the train carried on about 90 minutes late, stopping to drop off one set of crew somewhere and then heading north

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Apr 2026 ==

What makes the accident also notable is a number of trains had passed over the section observing the speed restriction in place despite aware that the gas lights for the restriction were extinguished. Had those drivers actually followed the rule book and stopped to report the lights out there is a real possibility that that accident would never have happened as the signaller would started to of cautioned trains through the section..

I might be wrong as I'm typing this from memory, but I think there was what came to be seen as a weakness in the way the rules were written, as the requirement was indeed to stop but the phrasing included the word "convenient" rather than "at the next station / signal / signal box / as soon as possible" etc etc, leaving it open to interpretation

 

[Dunfanaghy Roa]

In my copy of the Telegram codes that last sentence for SPATE reads: "Withdraw restriction and reply". Were you reading the wording for SPEDWAY?

You've got me bang to rights! My apologies.
Pat

 

[Annetts key]

Afterwards it was decided to formally indicate cleared temporary restriction for couple of weeks afterwards, and the speed number is replaced by diagonal stripe.

The SPATE signs stay in place until either, after the published end date of the restriction has passed, or its been possible to publish details of the restriction being lifted in the next edition of the notice to train crew (was the K2, now called the WON - Weekly Operating Notice).

 

[skyhigh]

The SPATE signs stay in place until either, after the published end date of the restriction has passed, or its been possible to publish details of the restriction being lifted in the next edition of the notice to train crew (was the K2, now called the WON - Weekly Operating Notice).

Theoretically.

I can think of a TSR that has been SPATE'd for at least 12 months, yet is still boarded.

 

[Annetts key]

Theoretically.

I can think of a TSR that has been SPATE'd for at least 12 months, yet is still boarded.

It's the railway, there are always exceptions to everything...