What does this road sign mean...

[BanburyBlue]

Hi all, what does this road sign mean? This is a sign as you enter a pedestrian zone in Banbury High Street. There is an argument raging on a local Facebook page as to whether you are allowed to enter the pedestrian zone to drop off/pick up from shops in the zone (loading). Taking it from the top, my view is...

1. Pedestrian zone so no vehicles allowed.
2. This doesn't apply if you have a permit, 24x7.
3. If you have a blue badge, or want to pick up/drop off something at a shop, you can do this after 4.30 p.m. until 10.00 a.m.
4. No parking at any time.

Thoughts?

 

[Ianno87]

So I think it is No Vehicles, with the following 3 exceptions:

-Permit holders (who may use the road at any time)
-Blue Badge holders and for loading (who may use the road at any time)
-Vehicles may use the road for any purpose (other than parking) before 1000 and after 1630.

Cambridge has a very similar one written in a riddle (to say something that is actually very simple): https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.2...4!1spcXImrV-utAUwKMGCIlWQg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

[GrimsbyPacer]

There's a sign like this in Grimsby for the pedestrianised bit, it's ignored by most drivers, but loading is a term for deliveries of parcels surely?

 

[Bletchleyite]

So I think it is No Vehicles, with the following 3 exceptions:

-Permit holders (who may use the road at any time)
-Blue Badge holders and for loading (who may use the road at any time)
-Vehicles may use the road for any purpose (other than parking) before 1000 and after 1630.

Cambridge has a very similar one written in a riddle (to say something that is actually very simple): https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.2...4!1spcXImrV-utAUwKMGCIlWQg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

I would say it is:

No vehicles.

Except:

• Permit holders (unusual for it not to specify a permit code)
• Blue badge holders for any purpose* from 1630 to 1000
• Any other vehicle for loading only from 1630 to 1000

* Because the blue badge overrides the no parking restriction in most cases, and because there isn't the "only if you're going to load" in that clause.

It is pretty rubbish though, no need for it to be that complex.

The reason your middle one is wrong is that there is no "at any time" clause for that, so the time clause below it (1630-1000) applies.

 

[Ediswan]

The top sign is "No Motor Vehicles", cycles are allowed. The last is "No Waiting", which is stricter than no parking. The rest is just a confusing mess.

 

[stuu]

I think it's terrible design, but blue badge holders and loading is before 10, after 430. It can't be any time as otherwise what are the times referring to? I can see why there are arguments

 

[BanburyBlue]

Don’t know why they can say 4.30 p.m. to 10.00 a.m., rather than midnight to 10.00 a.m and 4.30 p.m to midnight.

 

[Snow1964]

The bottom bit is no waiting at any time, but can drop off passengers, but not wait for them

The top sign is no motor vehicles, I believe it includes electric bicycles not classified as EAPC (electrically assisted pedal cycle) which seem to fall into same category as mopeds. So powerful electrically assisted cycles are not permitted either.

It is a muddle of a sign because unspecified permit holders can drive down there anytime (a permit for what, a parking permit from another town 200 miles away ?), it really isn’t very clear.

 

[antharro]

That's a pretty terrible sign. I read it as:

Pedestrians only, except for:

- Permit holders at any time
- Blue badge holders between midnight-10am and 4:30pm-midnight
- Loading, between midnight-10am and 4:30pm-midnight

It could definitely be laid out in a much more understandable manner though.

 

[LSWR Cavalier]

I wonder if traffic wardens or PCSOs understand it. Using am + pm seems a bit strange.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I wonder if traffic wardens or PCSOs understand it. Using am + pm seems a bit strange.

That is fairly normal, they are only allowed to show times for one day, so it has to be split in that manner.

 

[DelW]

It is a muddle of a sign because unspecified permit holders can drive down there anytime (a permit for what, a parking permit from another town 200 miles away ?), it really isn’t very clear.

If it's similar to an example near me, I think the permit holders will be residents whose properties can only be reached (by car) via the restricted area. AIUI they can apply for a permit with proof of their address.

 

[BanburyBlue]

If it's similar to an example near me, I think the permit holders will be residents whose properties can only be reached (by car) via the restricted area. AIUI they can apply for a permit with proof of their address.

Yes agreed. Someone posted on Facebook that they lived down there and had a parking space, so could apply for a permit. Have to prove residenc.

 

[geoffk]

I would say it is:

No vehicles.

Except:

• Permit holders (unusual for it not to specify a permit code)
• Blue badge holders for any purpose* from 1630 to 1000
• Any other vehicle for loading only from 1630 to 1000

* Because the blue badge overrides the no parking restriction in most cases, and because there isn't the "only if you're going to load" in that clause.

It is pretty rubbish though, no need for it to be that complex.

The reason your middle one is wrong is that there is no "at any time" clause for that, so the time clause below it (1630-1000) applies.

No MOTOR vehicles (often called the "flying motorbike" sign by traffic engineers). Sometimes combined with an "except for access" supplementary plate. This opens another can of worms.

 

[deltic]

The key problem with the road sign is that there is generally no definition of loading included in the relevant traffic regulation orders.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The key problem with the road sign is that there is generally no definition of loading included in the relevant traffic regulation orders.

There doesn't need to be, there is a "common law" definition which is what the Police will use to enforce. In essence, it's that you must either be with the vehicle or carrying goods/persons back and forth. If you're not, you're not loading, you have parked.

A reasonable initial check is if you've locked the vehicle. If you are actually loading you mostly don't need to.

Example:
Going into a shop and making a purchase is not loading, however brief.
Going into a shop to pick up a product already purchased that's been left on the counter ready for you to pick up immediately is loading.

 

[deltic]

There doesn't need to be, there is a "common law" definition which is what the Police will use to enforce. In essence, it's that you must either be with the vehicle or carrying goods/persons back and forth. If you're not, you're not loading, you have parked.

A reasonable initial check is if you've locked the vehicle. If you are actually loading you mostly don't need to.

Example:
Going into a shop and making a purchase is not loading, however brief.
Going into a shop to pick up a product already purchased that's been left on the counter ready for you to pick up immediately is loading.

Police generally dont enforce parking restrictions, in most areas parking is decriminalised and enforced by the relevant local authority applying the relevant traffic regulation orders for that particular restriction - its what's in those TROs that is critical and they may be different for different roads in the same authority area.
Whether loading includes picking up or dropping off people is problematic - some authorities will argue loading only applies to goods and new signs have been introduced to cover commercial loading/unloading
In most places you would/should lock your vehicle whenever you leave it or you might have problems with your insurance which raises another complication is how far can you park your vehicle from the place you are picking up or dropping off items, some locations have time limits for loading/unloading, others dont
In your example how would you define returning an item to a store and getting a refund - is that unloading - commercial guidance on what constitutes loading/unloading includes completing all relevant paperwork involved
I received a PCN for stopping in a loading bay and I said I would go to the Magistrates court to challenge it - the authority dropped the case allegedly due to court delays but possibly also because the relevant TRO did not define loading and unloading and they could not prove I had broken any parking regulation.

 

[theking]

No motor vehicles except for permit holders.

Blue badge and Loading ONLY between 00:00 - 10:00 & 16:30 - 00:00

No parking anytime.

 

[TravelDream]

I think I have to disagree with those saying it is confusing. There's lots of info, but it is clearly laid out.

Pedestrian zone/ No motor vehicles
Except for permit holders at any time.
Except for disabled badge holders and for loading between midnight and 10am and 4.30pm and midnight.
No stopping (i.e. parking or waiting) at any time.

Clearly the permit holder thing is going to be for that specific zone from the local council.

 

[MotCO]

Is it possible to trace the original Traffic Order setting out what the original restrictions are?

 

[BanburyBlue]

I think I have to disagree with those saying it is confusing. There's lots of info, but it is clearly laid out.

Pedestrian zone/ No motor vehicles
Except for permit holders at any time.
Except for disabled badge holders and for loading between midnight and 10am and 4.30pm and midnight.
No stopping (i.e. parking or waiting) at any time.

Clearly the permit holder thing is going to be for that specific zone from the local council.

Agreed. When you read from the top i5 makes sense. I have a FB discussion who was adamant that disabled badge holders were allowed, and any vehicle for loading.

The permit is indeed council controlled, and is for people who have off road parking down there.

 

[Western Sunset]

Is one allowed to wait, so as to read and comprehend said sign?

 

[The Ham]

View attachment 100770
Hi all, what does this road sign mean? This is a sign as you enter a pedestrian zone in Banbury High Street. There is an argument raging on a local Facebook page as to whether you are allowed to enter the pedestrian zone to drop off/pick up from shops in the zone (loading). Taking it from the top, my view is...

1. Pedestrian zone so no vehicles allowed.
2. This doesn't apply if you have a permit, 24x7.
3. If you have a blue badge, or want to pick up/drop off something at a shop, you can do this after 4.30 p.m. until 10.00 a.m.
4. No parking at any time.

Thoughts?

With such signs you have to read each box (in this case edged with black) as a separate sign.

The top sites that no motor vehicles are allowed, for most that's as far as you need to read.

The next is the plate which gives the details, so:
- Permit holders at any time
- On any given day between midnight and 10 am disabled badge holders and for loading
- On any given day between 16:30 and midnight disabled badge holders and for loading

Then the bottom sign is when you can (or more accurately can't) park within the zone (no yellow lines needed) unless signs say otherwise (such as marked and signed permit holder parking), if you are allowed to enter the zone.

Is one allowed to wait, so as to read and comprehend said sign?

No, for the simple reason that for most they only need to understand the top sign. If they have reason to pass the sign then they are likely to have been instructed to do so.

If you are unsure, assume that you're not allowed in and then park up and then go and look at the sign.

 

[P Binnersley]

I agree with The Ham's assessment.
The details are in the Traffic Signs Manual (See page 58 at https://assets.publishing.service.g...le/782724/traffic-signs-manual-chapter-03.pdf)

It notes that
"A time period indicating when the exceptions apply (if different from the zone operational period) may be included in the middle panel. It is recommended that where more than one exception is shown on the sign, each applies for the same time period, otherwise the sign becomes complex and difficult for a driver to assimilate. If different time periods are required for each exception, it is likely to be more appropriate to use the variable message sign."
which I think applies in your case.

(sorry, quotes & embedded links disabled).

 

[172007]

I am sure somewhere I have heard councils trying to argue that loading refers o ly to commercial vehicles so stopping in a car to pick up a new TV from the adjacent shop will get a ticket; may be it was "loading bays" this was quite a few years back.

 

[MotCO]

I am sure somewhere I have heard councils trying to argue that loading refers o ly to commercial vehicles so stopping in a car to pick up a new TV from the adjacent shop will get a ticket; may be it was "loading bays" this was quite a few years back.

Do restrictions on loading bays apply at all times? That is, can cars park in the loading bays outside any restrictions set by the loading bay?

 

[The Ham]

Do restrictions on loading bays apply at all times? That is, can cars park in the loading bays outside any restrictions set by the loading bay?

It depends on what the sign(s) say. Often loading bays can be parked in at other times.

For instance "no waiting Monday to Saturday 07:30 to 18:30 expect loading" would allow you park between 6:30 in the evening and 7:30 the following day or at any time on a Sunday.

Conversely "no waiting at any time expect for loading Monday to Saturday 07:30 to 18:30" would mean that you couldn't park, nor could you load outside of those hours.