What do you value about First Class on long distance services?

[py_megapixel]

With a 400m train it'll have the "Stansted Express" problem. By the time it's got to some passengers leaving Euston, Washwood Heath will be coming past the window!

Doesn't sound like an insurmountable problem to me; all that's needed is multiple trolleys.

Basing it on the catering facilities provided on trains at the moment, two trolleys to serve Standard starting from opposite ends, plus an extra one to serve First, seems like it would be adequate.

 

[yorksrob]

Or perhaps just a little buffet, like the Mk2 buffet firsts used to have.

 

[Ianno87]

Doesn't sound like an insurmountable problem to me; all that's needed is multiple trolleys.

Then the staff cost starts to mount up.

On a Birmingham trip (say) service time would be even more limited - you probably wouldn't want to start serving until after leaving Old Oak Common.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's been a while since I last went in first with TPE, but I would bet that HS2 leans more towards the TPE offering than Avanti or LNER, with an on-board shop too. Even then on the core London, Brum, Manc services that are an hour or less, would it be worthwhile opening a shop even?

With such long trains it'd be great to see a standing cafe or even a seated bistro area, the space could easily be spared. Bet it won't be, though.

 

[py_megapixel]

With such long trains it'd be great to see a standing cafe or even a seated bistro area, the space could easily be spared. Bet it won't be, though.

The Eurostars and the DB ICEs, which are similarly long trains I believe, both have such a facility and it's wonderful.

 

[Purple Orange]

I can’t imagine it will be a trolley only. At just over 70% capacity, each 200m train will have 400 people. If just 5% use the buffet, spending £5 on average that will be £100 per journey per 200m train for services that will be on a 60-90 min cycle.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The Eurostars and the DB ICEs, which are similarly long trains I believe, both have such a facility and it's wonderful.

Agreed. And one benefit of the likely compulsory reservation policy (sorry, thread crossover) is that you might be more likely to use such a service because you won't lose your seat.

 

[YorksLad12]

What's the first class offering on TPE since the Nova fleet came in?

I think it's the same as on the 185s; don't think it has a dedicated person, even though the unit is longer. That's based on looking through the windows though!

 

[raetiamann]

I like the lounge access too, especially on cold winter days.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I like the lounge access too, especially on cold winter days.

I value that for air travel, but not so much for rail as I time my arrival at the station close enough to departure that it doesn't really provide me value.

 

[Journeyman]

I value that for air travel, but not so much for rail as I time my arrival at the station close enough to departure that it doesn't really provide me value.

It's useful for me, as I need to take a bus to Edinburgh Waverley to pick up the train, and the journey time can vary a lot due to traffic conditions. I therefore have to be careful to allow for delays, and I often arrive at the station quite early.

 

[py_megapixel]

I like the lounge access too, especially on cold winter days.

I value that for air travel, but not so much for rail as I time my arrival at the station close enough to departure that it doesn't really provide me value.

It's useful for me, as I need to take a bus to Edinburgh Waverley to pick up the train, and the journey time can vary a lot due to traffic conditions. I therefore have to be careful to allow for delays, and I often arrive at the station quite early.

I've added that to the poll

 

[Harold Hill]

Its always always worth paying the First Class premium for what you DON'T get ie overcrowding and noise

 

[EssexGonzo]

Interesting dichotomy between the poll results thus far, and the comments.

The poll is telling us that comfort, space and relaxation are more important. The comments are mostly about catering, lounge and at-seat fripperies. As is ever the case. This also tends to be similar to airline forums, where the ego-massage topics of better food, lounge and free drinks tend to turn-on the enthusiasts.

I don’t give a rat’s chuff about on-board catering, even for a 4-hour journey. As long as I have the chance to buy something far better than would ever be provided on-board before boarding, I’m happy. OK, coffee and water is good but I’m happy to share walk-up-and-buy facilities with those in Unwashed Class.

Four hours between meals is fine for most human beings. Spare me the thrills and give me a quiet, comfortable journey. Same for airline travel - I can do with out the orgasmic InstaBook experience of the lounge and the wet towels, as long as I have space, comfort and peace.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Its always always worth paying the First Class premium for what you DON'T get ie overcrowding and noise

That doesn't always follow, particularly now it's more of a leisure product, but also because of people doing conf calls. I find the quietest place on the railway is mostly Coach A on the Pendolino.

 

[py_megapixel]

That doesn't always follow, particularly now it's more of a leisure product, but also because of people doing conf calls. I find the quietest place on the railway is mostly Coach A on the Pendolino.

I don't understand why people consider it acceptable to have lengthy calls on trains. A couple of minutes of brief conversation is fine. A full-on conference call is not.

At the very least, go and do it in the vestibule area...

 

[Purple Orange]

Interesting dichotomy between the poll results thus far, and the comments.

The poll is telling us that comfort, space and relaxation are more important. The comments are mostly about catering, lounge and at-seat fripperies. As is ever the case. This also tends to be similar to airline forums, where the ego-massage topics of better food, lounge and free drinks tend to turn-on the enthusiasts.

I don’t give a rat’s chuff about on-board catering, even for a 4-hour journey. As long as I have the chance to buy something far better than would ever be provided on-board before boarding, I’m happy. OK, coffee and water is good but I’m happy to share walk-up-and-buy facilities with those in Unwashed Class.

Four hours between meals is fine for most human beings. Spare me the thrills and give me a quiet, comfortable journey. Same for airline travel - I can do with out the orgasmic InstaBook experience of the lounge and the wet towels, as long as I have space, comfort and peace.

Hear hear!

 

[lxfe_mxtterz]

To be honest, the only reason why I used to pay for First Class on Virgin Trains was for the complimentary - albeit slightly small - hot meals served onboard (particularly the cooked breakfast) and the often wildly generous offer of snacks and refreshments both on the train (I once got given about 20 Uglies in one offering ) and in the station lounges.

Of course, the additional space is also a welcome bonus, however I wouldn't fork out on First Class solely for a larger seat and a few more inches of legroom.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I don't understand why people consider it acceptable to have lengthy calls on trains. A couple of minutes of brief conversation is fine. A full-on conference call is not.

At the very least, go and do it in the vestibule area...

I think this is one where First and Standard Class are maybe a bit out of date, and the "ambiances" idea that some European operators have played with (DB's Metropolitan was one - I have a feeling Regiojet do?) might be worth looking at again. You could have an "office" coach which had more individual seating, laptop-sized tables/power at every seat and more sound deadening, and similarly a "family" coach with it all as 4+table and a kids' play area. These could be priced as First Class so encouraging upgrade not by way of "it's more comfortable" but more "it's designed for my precise needs on that journey".

 

[d9009alycidon]

Prior to the lockdown I travelled frequently for business, most companies tried to get you to use air travel even for UK trips simply because it used to be cheaper and you spent less time travelling. Thankfully this is changing and my present employer actually encourages you to use train travel where possible and adds the incentive of allowing 1st class. The difference between getting herded onto an Easyjet flight from Glasgow to Gatwick compared with a 1st class seat on a 390 is night and day, I have vowed never to use domestic air travel again, however the only issue is that getting a hire car if required is not as easy when using the train. However that is what taxis are for!

 

[Purple Orange]

I don't understand why people consider it acceptable to have lengthy calls on trains. A couple of minutes of brief conversation is fine. A full-on conference call is not.

At the very least, go and do it in the vestibule area...

It all a part of the work & travel element. Work isn’t just sat a laptop and often if someone is travelling on business (mostly in Standard rather than First), multiple meetings will be going on during the day for which you may need to participate on a call. I.e. prioritising one meeting to attend face-to-face, but the other is one you still need to do. I’ve had the problem of being stuck on a train near Carlisle after requiring to go Glasgow for an afternoon meeting. Due to the train delays, I had to attend the meeting over conference call while on the train and didn’t arrive until 4pm. Went straight to the hotel rather than the office, and spent the next morning in Glasgow before heading back south in the afternoon. Suffice to say, the meeting would have been better had I been in the same room at the same time.

 

[Purple Orange]

I think this is one where First and Standard Class are maybe a bit out of date, and the "ambiances" idea that some European operators have played with (DB's Metropolitan was one - I have a feeling Regiojet do?) might be worth looking at again. You could have an "office" coach which had more individual seating, laptop-sized tables/power at every seat and more sound deadening, and similarly a "family" coach with it all as 4+table and a kids' play area. These could be priced as First Class so encouraging upgrade not by way of "it's more comfortable" but more "it's designed for my precise needs on that journey".

Yes. This is where the railway is falling down. Passengers needs have changed and while at one time First was targeted at those travelling on business, it’s offering not longer relevant and companies look to Standard class travel more and more. Why does a business want to pay for something it sees little value in?

 

[yorksrob]

Yes. This is where the railway is falling down. Passengers needs have changed and while at one time First was targeted at those travelling on business, it’s offering not longer relevant and companies look to Standard class travel more and more. Why does a business want to pay for something it sees little value in?

Indeed. First needs to be attractive to the discretionary leisure travel who is prepared to pay a premium for a more comfortable experience. It should be on the basis of a reasonable upgrade cost over standard.

 

[Ianno87]

Prior to the lockdown I travelled frequently for business, most companies tried to get you to use air travel even for UK trips simply because it used to be cheaper and you spent less time travelling. Thankfully this is changing and my present employer actually encourages you to use train travel where possible and adds the incentive of allowing 1st class. The difference between getting herded onto an Easyjet flight from Glasgow to Gatwick compared with a 1st class seat on a 390 is night and day, I have vowed never to use domestic air travel again, however the only issue is that getting a hire car if required is not as easy when using the train. However that is what taxis are for!

My employer imposes an internal 'fine' for using flights under a certain distance where a rail alternative is practical (basically deducting a 'fine' from the cost centre's budget in addition to the fare for the flight).

It all a part of the work & travel element. Work isn’t just sat a laptop and often if someone is travelling on business (mostly in Standard rather than First), multiple meetings will be going on during the day for which you may need to participate on a call. I.e. prioritising one meeting to attend face-to-face, but the other is one you still need to do. I’ve had the problem of being stuck on a train near Carlisle after requiring to go Glasgow for an afternoon meeting. Due to the train delays, I had to attend the meeting over conference call while on the train and didn’t arrive until 4pm. Went straight to the hotel rather than the office, and spent the next morning in Glasgow before heading back south in the afternoon. Suffice to say, the meeting would have been better had I been in the same room at the same time.

I'd rather get off the train mid-route to do a conference, and then get back on again (I loathe doing it on the move, especially if I've alot to say which might be a nuisance to other passengers). But I plan to avoid this at all wherever possible.

I've been in earshot of other passengers loudly divulging a lot of sensitive information via long phone calls, which could quite easily be recorded by someone on their device (I wouldn't dream of doing that).

 

[ashkeba]

I value that for air travel, but not so much for rail as I time my arrival at the station close enough to departure that it doesn't really provide me value.

My main problems with lounges are that few stations have them and some that do are restricted to an operator I cannot use because it does not serve my station (KGX) or don't even allow all the operator's 1st tickets (PAD used to be that way?).

 

[YorksLad12]

That doesn't always follow, particularly now it's more of a leisure product, but also because of people doing conf calls. I find the quietest place on the railway is mostly Coach A on the Pendolino.

I don't understand why people consider it acceptable to have lengthy calls on trains. A couple of minutes of brief conversation is fine. A full-on conference call is not.

At the very least, go and do it in the vestibule area...

I remember once in First when there was *that* person making one loud, long phone call. Then we went though the tunnels at Welwyn (I think) and he got cut off... and the only sound in the coach was me going "Yay!" If anyone phones me I ask them to send an email if possible, unless it's something that only requires one- or two-word answers. Basic manners (and confidentiality).

First isn't exclusive or quiet; it's expensive with wider, fewer seats.

 

[Gaz55]

First class is not necessarily worth the extra cost when a mother is letting her 2 kids run around the carriage and letting them get play do allover, as I had last year going to London from Doncaster. I don't want to sound snobby, but you would hope people would have a bit more decorum and sense.

 

[philosopher]

Yes. This is where the railway is falling down. Passengers needs have changed and while at one time First was targeted at those travelling on business, it’s offering not longer relevant and companies look to Standard class travel more and more. Why does a business want to pay for something it sees little value in?

First class compartments, with good sound insulation I think could be good for several business travellers travelling together. The business travellers could conduct meetings and calls and other work in a fairly secure and private environment. In effect it would be a mobile meeting room. Companies may then feel that first class is worth it.

If the railway operators were really to go for it, they could even fit the compartments with fast WiFi and TV screens to allow video calls.

 

[JonathanP]

I am quite tall, on some British "long distance" trains e.g. Eurostar and Pendelino, the seat pitch minus seat depth is literally less than the length of my thighs. So particularly on Eurostar, where its is forbidden to book a table seat when travelling alone, I am forced to book first class/standard premier just to be able to sit down without folding myself like origami. Otherwise I wouldn't bother.

N.B: On German long distance and even most regional trains, the seat pitch is more generous and I have no problem.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I am quite tall, on some British "long distance" trains e.g. Eurostar and Pendelino, the seat pitch minus seat depth is literally less than the length of my thighs. So particularly on Eurostar, where its is forbidden to book a table seat when travelling alone, I am forced to book first class/standard premier just to be able to sit down without folding myself like origami. Otherwise I wouldn't bother.

N.B: On German long distance and even most regional trains, the seat pitch is more generous and I have no problem.

Have you been on an E320 ("ICE") set? Due to the stupid design of the table, the airline seats have more legroom.

I find DB know how to spec a Velaro, and Eurostar very much don't. The Eurostar interior is in most ways rubbish compared with the DB one.