What do i do?

[ktiggeroo]

You are over complicating things.

If your son was not travelling on the date and at the time when the penalty fare was issued then that is sufficient. Everything else is unnecessary and may well cause confusion or difficulties of another sort.

You may need to set out this evidence in a formal statutory declaration - which will be neither expensive nor difficult to obtain - in order to ram home the point.

I'm not over complicating it they are! We appealed it based in the fact he aas at home that day. We sent evidence but they are saying we are implying someone else gave his name falsely. We did do imply that because no one can have received the penalty fare when the train wasn't even there! How is that over complicating things? We have sent over 10 emails, appealed, spoken on the phone to various people and just get passed from pillar to post. My son is 14 and now to worried to use the train. He always has the money, wasn't there that day and now they have sent him a bill for over £100 and given his name to a debt agency. Personally I don't think I am over complicating anything at all, they are. Many thanks for your comment

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 May 2023 ==

IIRC correctly the son was at home and mowing the lawn that day (or being hassled to mow the lawn by the OP, his mum), and not travelling - tho the case has got quite long so apols if I have misrecalled what @ktiggeroo set out earlier on up thread

This is all correct. We have appealed and sent evidence he wasn't there so they have now referred it to the debt agency saying it is nothing to do with them and we have to write to the debt agency saying someone has false accused him. I don't think this is the case as the incident happened a different day etc etc and not how they have said and the letter gives the wrong time even for the train on that day anyway showing their incompetence. I am.just angry because my son is having to deal with this at 14, learning difficulties etc meaning I actually have to do all the appeals, emails etc on his behalf and now he is too worried to get the train. All for a £1.50 fare he didn't even take.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 May 2023 ==

I was trying to prove that them saying he was given one in person is rubbish given no one could be given one at that time because the train wasn't even there! No one falsely gave his details an incident did happen which I have explained in the original post but not as they are saying and not on the date and time they said so I am trying to show their incompetence and the fact it is all Incorrect.

It is when they are saying it was someone else. It wasn't someone giving false information as the train wasn't there and the incident didn't happen on that day or time as explained in the original post. They have refused the appeal it was not my son even with evidence saying we have to now contact the debt agency! He is 14

 

[Haywain]

To simpliy matters, did your son receive a Penalty Fare Notice on a different day, or did he not receive one at all?

 

[Cantab26]

We did do imply that because no one can have received the penalty fare when the train wasn't even there!

the letter gives the wrong time even for the train on that day anyway showing their incompetence.

You are over-complicating matters by raising this point.

You need to obtain formal statutory declarations:

• From your son saying that he did not travel by train at all on the day on which the penalty fare fare was issued.
• From yourself confirming that he was at home on that day and at that time and explaining that you can be certain because of the ‘nagging’ text messages which you sent to him about mowing the lawn. The text messages should also be exhibited to the declaration.

You should then submit these with a further appeal (if a stage 3 appeal is still available).

You should also send copies to the TOC with a letter inviting them to withdraw the penalty fare issued in your son’s name and mark the file as ‘issued in error’ on the basis of the evidence that you have provided.

I am trying to help you, but if you do not wish to accept this advice then that is your prerogative.

 

[WesternLancer]

You are over-complicating matters by raising this point.

You need to obtain formal statutory declarations:

• From your son saying that he did not travel by train at all on the day on which the penalty fare fare was issued.
• From yourself confirming that he was at home on that day and at that time and explaining that you can be certain because of the ‘nagging’ text messages which you sent to him about mowing the lawn. The text messages should also be exhibited to the declaration.

You should then submit these with a further appeal (if a stage 3 appeal is still available).

You should also send copies to the TOC with a letter inviting them to withdraw the penalty fare issued in your son’s name and mark the file as ‘issued in error’ on the basis of the evidence that you have provided.

I am trying to help you, but if you do not wish to accept this advice then that is your prerogative.

This is excellent advice in my view.

Whilst I have every sympathy with the Kafkaesque world the OP has found her son in, following this advice is the best way forward.

Unfortunately the 'system' does not help - but there will be some logic to it - ie I suspect in this case it is important that the Appeals process is seen to be dealt with by a body independent from the train company staff that issue the Penalties - but that does mean that the independent appeals service is not going to then take responsibility for penalties issued in error (in this case to someone who was not the OPs son) - but this then has the annoying consequence of meaning they are batting ti back to Southern/the debt collection company etc etc.

By following @tspaul26 's advice with the decelerations they will hopefully realise that they are dealing with someone who will not put up with their antics and consider the point seriously, and then drop the case.

Whilst I have total sympathy with the OP's desire to vent frustration about all this - that won't make it go away.

 

[ktiggeroo]

You are over-complicating matters by raising this point.

You need to obtain formal statutory declarations:

• From your son saying that he did not travel by train at all on the day on which the penalty fare fare was issued.
• From yourself confirming that he was at home on that day and at that time and explaining that you can be certain because of the ‘nagging’ text messages which you sent to him about mowing the lawn. The text messages should also be exhibited to the declaration.

You should then submit these with a further appeal (if a stage 3 appeal is still available).

You should also send copies to the TOC with a letter inviting them to withdraw the penalty fare issued in your son’s name and mark the file as ‘issued in error’ on the basis of the evidence that you have provided.

I am trying to help you, but if you do not wish to accept this advice then that is your prerogative.

Received this today. Any advice? Thanks

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Jun 2023 ==

This is excellent advice in my view.

Whilst I have every sympathy with the Kafkaesque world the OP has found her son in, following this advice is the best way forward.

Unfortunately the 'system' does not help - but there will be some logic to it - ie I suspect in this case it is important that the Appeals process is seen to be dealt with by a body independent from the train company staff that issue the Penalties - but that does mean that the independent appeals service is not going to then take responsibility for penalties issued in error (in this case to someone who was not the OPs son) - but this then has the annoying consequence of meaning they are batting ti back to Southern/the debt collection company etc etc.

By following @tspaul26 's advice with the decelerations they will hopefully realise that they are dealing with someone who will not put up with their antics and consider the point seriously, and then drop the case.

Whilst I have total sympathy with the OP's desire to vent frustration about all this - that won't make it go away.

Any advice please? Recieved this today. They say there is nothing they can do. Did as advised and ignored the original incident and just argued the date and time which are incorrect and they said I needed to wait for debt recovery to be in touch but now I have had this today and they confirmed court is the next action. I am actually shocked and my son is devastated and worried sick. I don't know what else to do . Don't want to pay it, can't afford to pay it but want to spare him court and us more money if we loose! All for a kid trying to get home for a £1.50 fare when the ticket machine wasn't working. This world is going mad !

 

[Haywain]

Received this today. Any advice? Thanks

Yes, you might want to redact your son's name and make your postcode unreadable.

 

[ktiggeroo]

Yes, you might want to redact your son's name and make your postcode unreadable.

Sorry I thought I had !

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Jun 2023 ==

Yes, you might want to redact your son's name and make your postcode unreadable.

How do I delete it! Didn't notice it in that bit

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Jun 2023 ==

Received this today. Any advice? Thanks

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Jun 2023 ==


Any advice please? Recieved this today. They say there is nothing they can do. Did as advised and ignored the original incident and just argued the date and time which are incorrect and they said I needed to wait for debt recovery to be in touch but now I have had this today and they confirmed court is the next action. I am actually shocked and my son is devastated and worried sick. I don't know what else to do . Don't want to pay it, can't afford to pay it but want to spare him court and us more money if we loose! All for a kid trying to get home for a £1.50 fare when the ticket machine wasn't working. This world is going mad !

 

[Haywain]

Sorry I thought I had !

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Jun 2023 ==


How do I delete it! Didn't notice it in that bit

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Jun 2023 ==

You've obviously figured out how to delete it, but your son's name is still there in a couple of places.

 

[CharlieSpotted]

Might be worth checking whether they're after £141.20 or £161.20 as clearly maths is not their strong point down at GTR:

Penalty Fare Avoided: £101.20
Costs To Date: £60.00
Amount Now Due: £141.20

 

[ktiggeroo]

Received this today. Followed every but of advice on here and from gtr payments team. Was advised by them to ignore the letters as he is a minor. Lots of advise on here which I took and followed yet still today we get another letter and when I called they said they couldn't do anything and if I don't pay it I will get a magistrates letter next. My poor son is worried sick. I can't afford to pay it and don't want to out of principal but don't know what to do. Shocked this has all happened to be honest but more shocked they do this with no means to contact anyone

Might be worth checking whether they're after £141.20 or £161.20 as clearly maths is not their strong point down at GTR:

Penalty Fare Avoided: £101.20
Costs To Date: £60.00
Amount Now Due: £141.20

Yes you are right I hadn't even noticed that! Another example of their cock up to so maybe I will let them take me to court after all!

 

[Fawkes Cat]

The easy way out of this at this point is to pay £141.20. But I understand your points that you don't have £141.20 spare and that as a matter of principle you should not be paying this because you do not consider that your son did anything wrong: the penalty fare is for a time when you know where he was, and that was not on a train (specifically, he was at home and you have proof in the form both of your memory and a text you sent him to get him to cut the grass).

My feeling is that the railway are proceeding rather mechanically down the route that they take when they have not received a response. So my view is that the railway would probably back down if they realised that this is not going to be a matter that can be dealt quickly and easily with by the magistrates because the accused doesn't turn up to court.

So another route you could take is to not take any action on this final demand for £141.20 (and please note that this is a final demand - your son hasn't been taken to court yet). Wait for the railway to actually send your son a summons to appear in court. At that point, write to make it clear that your son will be pleading not guilty: that he can demonstrate that he was not on a train at the point when the notice was issued: and that he will be putting the railway to proof of their allegations (I think those are the words: essentially, he will be expecting the railway to get the inspector who issued the penalty fare to show up and confirm that he gave it to your son, and what time he did that).

I would expect that once the railway found that this would be a contested case, they would back off.

If I'm right, then you and your son win. But
- I may not have understood the law and the procedure properly. There may be other people along shortly who can put me right on this
- this would mean having to cope with the stress of not having things settled for longer. You may feel that the peace of mind of getting the thing out of the way is worth the £141.20
- perhaps most importantly, there is no guarantee your son would win. The railway might not back down, or might be able to make their case, or the magistrates might give the railway the benefit of the doubt. So while 'having your day in court' might feel appealing, you might not get what you want from it.

 

[ktiggeroo]

The easy way out of this at this point is to pay £141.20. But I understand your points that you don't have £141.20 spare and that as a matter of principle you should not be paying this because you do not consider that your son did anything wrong: the penalty fare is for a time when you know where he was, and that was not on a train (specifically, he was at home and you have proof in the form both of your memory and a text you sent him to get him to cut the grass).

My feeling is that the railway are proceeding rather mechanically down the route that they take when they have not received a response. So my view is that the railway would probably back down if they realised that this is not going to be a matter that can be dealt quickly and easily with by the magistrates because the accused doesn't turn up to court.

So another route you could take is to not take any action on this final demand for £141.20 (and please note that this is a final demand - your son hasn't been taken to court yet). Wait for the railway to actually send your son a summons to appear in court. At that point, write to make it clear that your son will be pleading not guilty: that he can demonstrate that he was not on a train at the point when the notice was issued: and that he will be putting the railway to proof of their allegations (I think those are the words: essentially, he will be expecting the railway to get the inspector who issued the penalty fare to show up and confirm that he gave it to your son, and what time he did that).

I would expect that once the railway found that this would be a contested case, they would back off.

If I'm right, then you and your son win. But
- I may not have understood the law and the procedure properly. There may be other people along shortly who can put me right on this
- this would mean having to cope with the stress of not having things settled for longer. You may feel that the peace of mind of getting the thing out of the way is worth the £141.20
- perhaps most importantly, there is no guarantee your son would win. The railway might not back down, or might be able to make their case, or the magistrates might give the railway the benefit of the doubt. So while 'having your day in court' might feel appealing, you might not get what you want from it.

Thank you for this. You are correct in understanding I won't pay itainky because the whole thing has been a joke. My son is distraught, I have been incredibly stressed and the fact there is no one who can actually sort this out is unbelievable.
They have not only gor the date and time wrong of the incident as my son wasn't there and actually neither was rhe train at that time, but someone else has just pointed out that actually rhe amount they are demanding is also incorrect as they have put
Penalty fare avoided £101.20
Costs to date £60
Amount due then in red £141.20
The above added together actually makes £161.20 so again shows the mistakes they make.
The letter also says as you have not responded and or not settled but actually I can prove with so much evidence I have done everything to respond to every letter recieved I don't think they have a leg to stand on.
I think I just can't believe with all the mistakes they are still pursuing this for a 14 year old who couldn't pay £1.50 as the machine was broken and he didn't know what to do. . Thanks for your help

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Jun 2023 ==

You've obviously figured out how to delete it, but your son's name is still there in a couple of places.

Oh god sorry I am rubbish at this stuff as you can probably tell!

 

[Haywain]

Oh god sorry I am rubbish at this stuff as you can probably tell!

I didn't like to say , but just trying to help.

 

[MotCO]

Do GTR have their own legal department who take the final decision before letting cases go to Court? I think I have seen something similar elsewhere at a different Train Operating Company.

Firstly, I am not a lawyer and have no legal training, but if there is a legal team, is it worth the OP writing to the legal team (or Chief Executive) setting out the case and the defence (the son was not there and we have evidence to prove it), saying that you will be denying the charge, the son is a minor, so the case should be dropped since it is in no one's interest in pursuing it? The only downside is that maybe this could compromise your defence of the charge through the Courts. Maybe one of the legally trained forum members who visit this site could advise?

 

[ktiggeroo]

I didn't like to say , but just trying to help.

Thank you

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Jun 2023 ==

Do GTR have their own legal department who take the final decision before letting cases go to Court? I think I have seen something similar elsewhere at a different Train Operating Company.

Firstly, I am not a lawyer and have no legal training, but if there is a legal team, is it worth the OP writing to the legal team (or Chief Executive) setting out the case and the defence (the son was not there and we have evidence to prove it), saying that you will be denying the charge, the son is a minor, so the case should be dropped since it is in no one's interest in pursuing it? The only downside is that maybe this could compromise your defence of the charge through the Courts. Maybe one of the legally trained forum members who visit this site could advise?

Thank you for this and would be great kf someone knew the answer. I am honestly at a loss of what to do other than go to court to point out they have made the following mistakes
*Wrong date and time
*We have responded to every correspondence recieved
*They have given us the wrong total owed
*There has been literally no one person I have contacted who could help me from many different departments including when we appealed they even got that wrong and then left no where to respond to other than an address to write to which I have done today.
It is all so mad.

 

[OneOfThe48]

Firstly, I am not a lawyer and have no legal training, but if there is a legal team, is it worth the OP writing to the legal team (or Chief Executive) setting out the case and the defence (the son was not there and we have evidence to prove it), saying that you will be denying the charge, the son is a minor, so the case should be dropped since it is in no one's interest in pursuing it?

I don’t think writing to the CEO to set out the above would hurt the case, nor even writing to your (OP’s) MP as I’m sure they’ve received this type of stuff before.

Not a lawyer, not advice on legal matters.

 

[John Palmer]

@ktiggeroo, have you taken the steps recommended by @tspaul26 in post #93? If not then I urge you to do so without delay. By doing so you may pre-empt the imminent risk of your son being prosecuted for fare evasion. Even if he has a good defence to any such prosecution, it is better to prevent it being started because every party to court proceedings runs some risk of being the loser, however strong their case may seem.

I do not consider that Penalty Services Limited was entitled to brush aside your son's appeal on the basis that it had no jurisdiction to deal with it. Your son's appeal appears from the terms of PSL's 24th May letter to have fallen within Regulation 16(3)(c) of the Penalty Fares Regulations 2018 as a lawful ground of appeal, namely that “the appellant is not the person liable for the payment of the penalty fare.” Potentially PSL's failure to adjudicate upon the appeal opens the way for an argument that you son is not, in law, liable to pay the penalty fare that gave rise to it.

 

[furlong]

Sort of - by failing to decide the appeal within 21 days on spurious grounds, the liability to pay the penalty element disappears, but because of the poor drafting of the amendments to the regulations, the single fare itself remains due and so this argument isn't sufficient on its own any longer. I can only agree with tspaul26's approach - essentially that you need to avoid letting yourself get distracted by secondary issues and focus on the core matters.

 

[ktiggeroo]

@ktiggeroo, have you taken the steps recommended by @tspaul26 in post #93? If not then I urge you to do so without delay. By doing so you may pre-empt the imminent risk of your son being prosecuted for fare evasion. Even if he has a good defence to any such prosecution, it is better to prevent it being started because every party to court proceedings runs some risk of being the loser, however strong their case may seem.

I do not consider that Penalty Services Limited was entitled to brush aside your son's appeal on the basis that it had no jurisdiction to deal with it. Your son's appeal appears from the terms of PSL's 24th May letter to have fallen within Regulation 16(3)(c) of the Penalty Fares Regulations 2018 as a lawful ground of appeal, namely that “the appellant is not the person liable for the payment of the penalty fare.” Potentially PSL's failure to adjudicate upon the appeal opens the way for an argument that you son is not, in law, liable to pay the penalty fare that gave rise to it.

Hi there, they have already begun the procedure for court. The final demand letter which also had the incorrect amount on says I have not responded or settled ( which is incorrect as I have responded to every letter they have sent) and because I haven't paid it and if I don't within 14 days it is their intent to present his case to the magistrates Court.
I have spent today working a detailed letter showing all their failings, inaccurate information and times I have tried to rectify this and then went to see where to send it to and there is no address!
I then went to make a complain which I can't do as I need to put the date and the date the incident happened is different to the one they have got ( another mistake of theirs).
There is literally no way of me making contact to get this sorted which is why I have just gone round and round in circles. It isn't through lack of trying.
I am going to send this to the address on the bottom of the payments letter then wait for the court letter I guess.
I will fight this, I am fuming it as been so difficult to sort out all because of their mistakes and my son is so distressed.
I have also considered going to the media as it is honestly an absolute joke. Nothing they have put is correct, I have been told to do the wrong things, and they can't even get the amount owed correct. It is a complete balls up and I can't even argue it because I don't have a contact or address! So frustrated so waiting for the court letter is my only option I think in the hope I will at least be given a point of contact. How has it come to this for a £1.50 fare he coindbt pay as the machine was broken and hoped to sort it on the train. It is totally beyond many.
Many thanks for your response

 

[ktiggeroo]

Hi, I need to send a letter to the debt recovery and prosecutons department but can't find where to send it to. Can anyone please help? It's quite urgent. Also who do I send a complaint too? Online I need to put a date of the incicenet it says but as its a dispute for a penalty fare notice of which they have the date and time wrong I don't know what to put. I also want to put in a complaint about how it has been handled as they have been so inaccurate with all their information and I can't challenge it as they don't give any details of how to.
I have tried appealing ( which they got info wrong on when replying)
I have tried customer services who told me to appeal.
Payments told me they can't help and I have emailed and they told me to appeal or speak to customer services.
It is for the govia thameslink railway if that helps.
Thanks

 

[furlong]

You seem to tying yourself in knots over subsidiary matters rather than focussing on the key points as tspaul26 advised. Even if you don't present the information in the form of SDs, that remains the information you need to present - a signed statement from your son and a signed statement from yourself covering only the items tspaul26 mentioned. Then a covering letter inviting them to close the file as an issuing error.

(I suspect several readers of the thread have formed a similar theory to my own about the nature of the potential issuing error, but you should focus solely on rebutting the actual information they have given you and nothing more.)

There is a contact address at the bottom of the letter you attached to an earlier post. Use recorded delivery (and take photographs before you put it into the envelope).

It's not a good ideal to complicate and confuse the situation by raising complaints before the problem is resolved. They are not asking you about what you say happened the previous day so don't mention that as it seems irrelevant.

 

[ktiggeroo]

You seem to tying yourself in knots over subsidiary matters rather than focussing on the key points as tspaul26 advised. Even if you don't present the information in the form of SDs, that remains the information you need to present - a signed statement from your son and a signed statement from yourself covering only the items tspaul26 mentioned. Then a covering letter inviting them to close the file as an issuing error.

(I suspect several readers of the thread have formed a similar theory to my own about the nature of the potential issuing error, but you should focus solely on rebutting the actual information they have given you and nothing more.)

There is a contact address at the bottom of the letter you attached to an earlier post. Use recorded delivery (and take photographs before you put it into the envelope).

It's not a good ideal to complicate and confuse the situation by raising complaints before the problem is resolved. They are not asking you about what you say happened the previous day so don't mention that as it seems irrelevant.

It isn't irrelevant as there was an incident but their date and time is incorrect and when i didn't mention this they rejected the appeal saying someone must have given false information. I haven't over complicated anything I don't think. I kept it all basic at every phonecall as advised on here and yet still they are saying inherent responded which is untrue. There is no one I can contact who will help. I have tired everywhere and get fobbed off.
There is an address at the bottom you are correct but no one to address it to so it Will just get lost in the system.
Many thanks for your response

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Jun 2023 ==

You seem to tying yourself in knots over subsidiary matters rather than focussing on the key points as tspaul26 advised. Even if you don't present the information in the form of SDs, that remains the information you need to present - a signed statement from your son and a signed statement from yourself covering only the items tspaul26 mentioned. Then a covering letter inviting them to close the file as an issuing error.

(I suspect several readers of the thread have formed a similar theory to my own about the nature of the potential issuing error, but you should focus solely on rebutting the actual information they have given you and nothing more.)

There is a contact address at the bottom of the letter you attached to an earlier post. Use recorded delivery (and take photographs before you put it into the envelope).

It's not a good ideal to complicate and confuse the situation by raising complaints before the problem is resolved. They are not asking you about what you say happened the previous day so don't mention that as it seems irrelevant.

They will also not close it based on an issuing error as I have explained all that but they just say we haven't paid or responded. They refused the issuing error when I appealed even when I explaiend train wasnt even at that station at that time and date.

 

[AlterEgo]

I implore you to follow the advice given by @furlong and @tspaul26 and @John Palmer. They have much more experience in handling this sort of thing and it is vital that you deal with each matter in hand in order of priority.

You need to solve the imminent and urgent problem of the prosecution threat *immediately*. Do so without delay.

You can then raise your complaints afterwards.

 

[ktiggeroo]

I implore you to follow the advice given by @furlong and @tspaul26 and @John Palmer. They have much more experience in handling this sort of thing and it is vital that you deal with each matter in hand in order of priority.

You need to solve the imminent and urgent problem of the prosecution threat *immediately*. Do so without delay.

You can then raise your complaints afterwards.

I understand what you are saying but I have tried to sort it out! There is no where I can do this. That's what I have tried to explain. All the places I have tried to do this tell me they can't help. That is why I am at a loss. The only reason I was asking about complaints it seems to be the only way I can actually get someone to help me! All other departments have dismissed me or said pay it or ignore it!
I have speak to payments, can't help,
Emailed gtr, told me to appeal,
Spoke to customer service and told to appeal.
Did that and declined and was told to contact debt recovery. Did that and they told me they couldn't help and said I needed to pay or wait for court letter. Honestly I get what you are saying but what else exaflry could I have done? They give no one to contact other than payments team who won't help. Everyone else I have contacted is at the suggestions from here.

 

[AlterEgo]

I understand what you are saying but I have tried to sort it out! There is no where I can do this. That's what I have tried to explain. All the places I have tried to do this tell me they can't help. That is why I am at a loss. The only reason I was asking about complaints it seems to be the only way I can actually get someone to help me! All other departments have dismissed me or said pay it or ignore it!
I have speak to payments, can't help,
Emailed gtr, told me to appeal,
Spoke to customer service and told to appeal.
Did that and declined and was told to contact debt recovery. Did that and they told me they couldn't help and said I needed to pay or wait for court letter. Honestly I get what you are saying but what else exaflry could I have done? They give no one to contact other than payments team who won't help. Everyone else I have contacted is at the suggestions from here.

I understand. You need to do this urgently:

You seem to tying yourself in knots over subsidiary matters rather than focussing on the key points as tspaul26 advised. Even if you don't present the information in the form of SDs, that remains the information you need to present - a signed statement from your son and a signed statement from yourself covering only the items tspaul26 mentioned. Then a covering letter inviting them to close the file as an issuing error.

Do this immediately before doing anything else.

 

[ktiggeroo]

I understand. You need to do this urgently:

Do this immediately before doing anything else.

But to send to who???? My son won't do a statement, he has inattentive adhd and doesn't understand any if this and is just Inceedibly anxious about it all.
Who do I send a statement too and saying what?
I have so far covered not being on rhe train on that date and time and have also confirmed he has never recieved a penalty fare notice in person or by post. They are not listening to either so not sure where everyone is suggesting I now contact and also what so say as I have said it all very clearly and been Ignored. . To be honest at this stage I think I will just accept our day in court and present all our evidence and prove all their mistakes as I am so stressed with it and even more stressed and having not a single point of contact about it. Thanks so much for your advise

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Jun 2023 ==

But to send to who???? My son won't do a statement, he has inattentive adhd and doesn't understand any if this and is just Inceedibly anxious about it all.
Who do I send a statement too and saying what?
I have so far covered not being on rhe train on that date and time and have also confirmed he has never recieved a penalty fare notice in person or by post. They are not listening to either so not sure where everyone is suggesting I now contact and also what so say as I have said it all very clearly and been Ignored. . To be honest at this stage I think I will just accept our day in court and present all our evidence and prove all their mistakes as I am so stressed with it and even more stressed and having not a single point of contact about it. Thanks so much for your advise

I understand. You need to do this urgently:

Do this immediately before doing anything else.

Also as said before they have initiated court proceedings already so the letter said and have given me 14 days to pay or they will instruct the court to proceed. At this point I think asking them to accept an issuing problem will be a waste of time and don't have anywhere to send it anyway as no one will accept responsibility and just says not their department. I have that the penalty fare notice can't have been issued as the train wasn't even there and they ignored it.

 

[AlbertBeale]

But to send to who???? My son won't do a statement, he has inattentive adhd and doesn't understand any if this and is just Inceedibly anxious about it all.
Who do I send a statement too and saying what?
I have so far covered not being on rhe train on that date and time and have also confirmed he has never recieved a penalty fare notice in person or by post. They are not listening to either so not sure where everyone is suggesting I now contact and also what so say as I have said it all very clearly and been Ignored. . To be honest at this stage I think I will just accept our day in court and present all our evidence and prove all their mistakes as I am so stressed with it and even more stressed and having not a single point of contact about it. Thanks so much for your advise

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Jun 2023 ==



Also as said before they have initiated court proceedings already so the letter said and have given me 14 days to pay or they will instruct the court to proceed. At this point I think asking them to accept an issuing problem will be a waste of time and don't have anywhere to send it anyway as no one will accept responsibility and just says not their department. I have that the penalty fare notice can't have been issued as the train wasn't even there and they ignored it.

If they've given 14 days "or they'll tell the court to proceed", then that presumably means they'll put it in the court system if it isn't solved by then - ie it hasn't yet been sent to the court. (They can't tell the court what speed to do things - it's either in the court system or it's not, ie it's either in the court's hands or in theirs.) If they've given you a deadline, then it's still in their hands.

Hence the way to stop it going to court is to follow the advice above. Eg tspaul26 in post 87. Tell them your son was at home the day they claim the offence happened, and you have proof, and so on, as recommended. Go to the Post Office and send the letter to the legal department of the train company, at the company's registered address, by Special Delivery (for speed as well proof).

All the other issues/complaints can follow later. If your priority is to stop this nonsense, then please do only what has been recommended. Talking about what might have happened at some other time will only confuse things at the moment.

 

[ktiggeroo]

If they've given 14 days "or they'll tell the court to proceed", then that presumably means they'll put it in the court system if it isn't solved by then - ie it hasn't yet been sent to the court. (They can't tell the court what speed to do things - it's either in the court system or it's not, ie it's either in the court's hands or in theirs.) If they've given you a deadline, then it's still in their hands.

Hence the way to stop it going to court is to follow the advice above. Eg tspaul26 in post 87. Tell them your son was at home the day they claim the offence happened, and you have proof, and so on, as recommended. Go to the Post Office and send the letter to the legal department of the train company, at the company's registered address, by Special Delivery (for speed as well proof).

All the other issues/complaints can follow later. If your priority is to stop this nonsense, then please do only what has been recommended. Talking about what might have happened at some other time will only confuse things at the moment.

Thank you. I have done all the above only not to the legal department but to the man who sent the letter and is from the debt recovery and prosecutions department. My worry if I send it elsewhere and it doesn't get dorted before the 14 days then this guy will once again say I haven't responded.
The beginning of the letter says legal proceedings have now commenced and then further down the letter is says if it isn't paid within 14 days then they will present the case to the magistrates court. So again, conflicting information which is exactly why I am getting now where.
I have decided I am going to send the whole lot to him, the complaints department and now the legal department then no one can say I haven't responded and will have our day in court to highlight what an absolute farse and incompetent company they are.
Also as said before I have only kept to the facts but that hasn't helped at all. They just say I am suggesting someone has posed as my son and taken the penalty fare notice which is rubbish.
Thank you again

 

[MotCO]

They just say I am suggesting someone has posed as my son and taken the penalty fare notice which is rubbish.
Thank you again

If they allege that, then it is up to them to prove that that is the case, not for you to disprove it.

 

[ktiggeroo]

If they allege that, then it is up to them to prove that that is the case, not for you to disprove it.

I agree but they just told me to write to the debt recovery company which I did and in the meantime got the letter telling me proceedings have commenced. The whole things contradicts itself. I don't think I have a choice but to go to court because all the information is incorrect and contradictory so the only way I feel we are going to be able to show the truth it at court. Such a rubbish system. Thanks again for taking the time to reply