What do i do?

[ktiggeroo]

I received a letter today saying my son owed £102.20 for a fine my 14 year old son hadn't paid for having no ticket on a train from Buxted to uckfield. I called them immediately and said it was the first I knew of it. The lady was very rude and told me that my son was issued a ticket on the train for having no valid ticket and it wasn't their fault he hadn't told me. I argued that if I was sent a letter saying he hadn't paid the fine and now owed more money should have received a letter saying he had the fine in the first place
She said no he should have told me and when I asked her name she refused to tell me and hung up! I called back and was told I should have received a letter and if I didn't want to pay to ignore it.
When my son arrived home I had a go at him and he told me that he hadn't done it on purpose he had tried to get a ticket but the machine was broken so they got on hoping to pay the guard. Instead he said two officers in vests approached them so they explained the situation and he said they told him they would pssoibly get a letter and fine but probably not as kids and a first offence. They took their details and that was that. My son said he didn't think to tell me as he didn't think anymore of it. Anyway, when he looked at the letter he noticed that the alleged date and time were wrong. This incident happened on 1/2/2023 @ around 8pm but the letter says 02/02/2023 @15.03. I can prove he was at home then. I then spoke to one of the other parents who also got the letter but sadly paid it not realising what happened and also not realising the date was wrong. Her letter however still said the 2nd but was a fine for £102.40 @15.07. The other lad hasn't even had a letter. This was the first any of us had heard about the incident. My question is how can the date and fine be different for both kids for the same incident? How can they have got the date and time wrong anyway? Whet an earth do I do now? I know essentially he hadn't got a ticket but he thought he could get one on the train, was told by whoever approached him too wait for a letter we didn't receive and also rhe lady on the phone lied saying he was given a ticket on the train! Let alone the fact we both have different amounts, dates and times. They got the train which should have been £1.50 because they thought it was safer that walking to the next village but now they are too worried too! Any advise greatly received as I would like to speak to a person but don't seem to be able too. Many thanks

 

[Mzzzs]

One extra thing that could help us is if you put any documents you have received on here but with private information covered up.

 

[ktiggeroo]

One extra thing that could help us is if you put any documents you have received on here but with private information covered up.

OK great. I will do that as soon as I have put my son to bed. Thank you

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Apr 2023 ==

These are the letters we received. As you can see it says reminder but we have never received any other info regarding this before today and the boys weren't given anything on the train.
Please see the date and time. The incident was on 1/02/23 @ around 8pm and yet it says different on the letter. Both boys were together and it was the same incident yet the times are different but also the fine amount is different for the same incident !

 

[ChewChewTrain]

If the ticket machine really was broken (and the train company would normally have a record of that) then no offence was committed, assuming the ticket office at Buxted was closed (which Google suggests was the case). Before encountering the officers, your son had no opportunity to pay. (It doesn’t matter if he had a smartphone; that isn’t classed as an opportunity to pay for this purpose.)

Don’t do anything on my account; I’m not an expert and could have got this wrong. But that’s how it seems to me at the moment. If I were you I’d ask my son if the machine definitely was broken; it’s in his best interest to fess up to you now if that wasn’t actually the case.

 

[ktiggeroo]

One extra thing that could help us is if you put any documents you have received on here but with private information covered up.

I have uploaded the letter myself and one of the other parents received. Neither of us received anything prior to this and the other boy with them hasn't received a single thing not even this letter!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Apr 2023 ==

If the ticket machine really was broken (and the train company would normally have a record of that) then no offence was committed, assuming the ticket office at Buxted was closed (which Google suggests was the case). Before encountering the officers, your son had no opportunity to pay. (It doesn’t matter if he had a smartphone; that isn’t classed as an opportunity to pay for this purpose.)

Don’t do anything on my account; I’m not an expert and could have got this wrong. But that’s how it seems to me at the moment. If I were you I’d ask my son if the machine definitely was broken; it’s in his best interest to fess up to you now if that wasn’t actually the case.

Thank you for this. I have been trying to get evidence to see if jt was broken but so far no one has been able to confirm this. I do believe this because it was only £1.50 for a ticket and he had the money and has paid every other time before so he had no reason not to pay. Obviously I wasn't there but I'm more concerned at how this has been handled and the fact that we have rhe wrong date and time on the letters. Both boys have different times and fines for the same incident and it says reminder but we have not ever received any other paper work. Just feels like a farce. He also hasn't denied it happened but it was definelty on a different day and time as I have evidence for that and all the boys said the same about what happened but weren't together when questioned about the incident once I got the letter so couldn't discuss it either and also said they had been told they would get a letter with no fine or nothing would happen. I am inclined to believe them simply because all the other info from the train company is inaccurate . Just don't know where to go from here lol

 

[Llanigraham]

Aren't "Unpaid Fare Notices" issued directly/personally by the Inspectors to those who they catch without a ticket?

 

[Mzzzs]

Did your son sit down or did he attempt to approach the guard?

 

[methecooldude]

£102.40 would be the adult penalty fare as £2.40 is the adult fare, child fare is half the adult, so hence £101.20. I surmise whomever your son was travelling with is over 15, or gave the wrong date of birth and hence was penalty fared at the adult fare

 

[ktiggeroo]

I have no idea if he sat down but there was no guard on there ( as in ticket guard) . It is only one stop.from viallge to village for £1.50 ticket which is why it is all so unbelievable. They were approached by two people in padded vests but he said he didnt know if they were police or what they were. He described the male as arrogant and horirble to them but said the lady was nice. He said they just asked if they had a ticket and they explained why they didn't have one and that's when they were told to give their details and then told them they may get a letter with a fine or would probably get nothing as it was a first offence.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Apr 2023 ==

£102.40 would be the adult penalty fare as £2.40 is the adult fare, child fare is half the adult, so hence £101.20. I surmise whomever your son was travelling with is over 15, or gave the wrong date of birth and hence was penalty fared at the adult fare

Ah OK. Yes that makes sense then as my son is 14 and friend is 15 I think. Thank you for clarifying! Still.doesnt explain the wrong dare and time though . Thanks for clearing up one mystery at least though.

 

[RPI]

It says that they were issued a Penalty Fare notice, they would have been issued a document at the time which would allow an appeal and also a reduced amount of £50+fare if paid within 21 days, they would also have signed a copy.

 

[ktiggeroo]

Aren't "Unpaid Fare Notices" issued directly/personally by the Inspectors to those who they catch without a ticket?

This is what the lady on the phone said but they weren't given anything and I do believe them as he wouldn't have been able to pay it and would have guessed that because he gave his details I would find out. Also if this had happened why would they want his details and the lady said they would have been given a £50 fine but this isn't what it says on there website it says it will be £100 plus price of the ticket then £50 if paid within 2q days. So confusing as so much conflicting info

 

[methecooldude]

This is what the lady on the phone said but they weren't given anything and I do believe them as he wouldn't have been able to pay it and would have guessed that because he gave his details I would find out. Also if this had happened why would they want his details and the lady said they would have been given a £50 fine but this isn't what it says on there website it says it will be £100 plus price of the ticket then £50 if paid within 2q days. So confusing as so much conflicting info

The penalty fare is £100 + the price of the single ticket. This is reduced to £50 + single if paid in 21 days.
As its a penalty fare, your son and friend would have been issued a very long bit of paper with all the details on it

It says that they were issued a Penalty Fare notice, they would have been issued a document at the time which would allow an appeal and also a reduced amount of £50+fare if paid within 21 days, they would also have signed a copy.

Exactly as RPI says here

 

[ktiggeroo]

It says that they were issued a Penalty Fare notice, they would have been issued a document at the time which would allow an appeal and also a reduced amount of £50+fare if paid within 21 days, they would also have signed a copy.

They all said they weren't given anything at all and only had to give their details. I argued when I called that if I had been sent a reminder why wasn't I sent the original fine so I could make sure it was paid but I was told that wasn't their fault. She also told me they were issued a £50 fine on the train so given that and the fact the date and time on the letter are incorrect I don't believe anything they have said

 

[AdamWW]

If there is evidence that the son was at home at the date and time on the letter would that not be grounds for appeal?

 

[ktiggeroo]

If there is evidence that the son was at home at the date and time on the letter would that not be grounds for appeal?

Yes. I sent him a text asking him to cut the grass because it was my husbands birthday lol. I also text him on the night before when he actually got the train and when the incident took place saying have you got on the train! Lol. I also have messages from today where my son sent the other boys a copy of the letter via message and they sent back that he wasn't even with them on that say because it was his dad's birthday! I think they will just say it was a clerical error if I argue the date and time were wrong!

 

[AdamWW]

I think they will just say it was a clerical error if I argue the date and time were wrong!

You may be right. There will be people here far more knowledgable than me on this matter.

(Though maybe the railway company should be fined £100 for clerical errors, reduced to £50 if they pay promptly?)

 

[ktiggeroo]

No worries, thank you for even taking the time to reply . Yes wouldn't it be nice if they could be fined! A bit like hmrc when they make a mistake but that's a whole other conversation

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Apr 2023 ==

You may be right. There will be people here far more knowledgable than me on this matter.

(Though maybe the railway company should be fined £100 for clerical errors, reduced to £50 if they pay promptly?)

Member​

No worries, thank you for even taking the time to reply . Yes wouldn't it be nice if they could be fined! A bit like hmrc when they make a mistake but that's a whole other conversation

 

[Dai Corner]

Could there have been two incidents?

One where your son was travelling and the boys were let off as the ticket machine was broken / it was the first offence the RPI was aware of and a second one where he wasn't there but one of the other boys gave his details?

 

[WesternLancer]

So it seems these were Penalty Fares that were then not paid (not paid promptly to secure the £50 rate) and not paid at all. They are I assume now out of time to submit an appeal (is that correct)?

The OP is confident that their son was not issued with any Penalty Fare documentation on the train by the staff on board.

The son says the ticket machine was not working (but presumably has no proof of that - eg a photo of non working machine).

Not sure what avenues are open to the OP - I suppose they could write back in response to the letter putting their son's side of the story to Southern (I would not ring up - the outline of the conversation posted above demonstrates why ringing them is a waste of time), or pay the sum demanded - which will not appeal if the son's story is accurate in every respect.

Is it possible that the staff took names and addresses assuming the standard 'threat to prosecute' letter would be sent out but then back office staff realised the individuals were under 18 and that would not go anywhere so defaulted to the Penalty Fare sum somehow? That seems unlikely to me given that there must be a standard procedure for dealing with people with no tickets / suspected fare evaders under 18 (there will be no shortage of them after all....sort of thing I might have chanced at that age.

I know this isn't going to sound very helpful (sorry @ktiggeroo ) - but on the basis that if I had been caught fare evading at the age of 14 I definitely would have not told my parents and would have hoped the problem 'went away' - is it possible that you son might not have bought a ticket as they know they are often not checked in the eves between Buxted and Uckfield, even tho it's less than £2, got stopped and questioned, issued with the Penalty Fare notice, didn't fully understand what it was, threw it away, hoped that would be the end of the matter, forgot about it? - then some weeks later this turns up at parental address.
Do you have evidence that your son does regularly buy tickets for train travel like this (eg do you ever see old tickets discarded at home, if not paid for by cash: any bank statement records that show ticket purchases)?

I suppose if you can proove that your son was not on the train at the time detailed on the letter you could just write back and say that - Southern would have to proove that he was, but they might just escalate the whole thing to court anyway so you would have to be prepared to go to court I suppose and present your proof and hope the matter would be thrown out - if that is how things like that work (not sure if they just sned the case to court to get the debt listed as a debt they can collect) - problem with all that is that it might not work out and / or might cost you more than £100 worth of time trouble and money.

Apols, I'm not sure if my ramblings are much help.

 

[ktiggeroo]

Could there have been two incidents?

One where your son was travelling and the boys were let off as the ticket machine was broken / it was the first offence the RPI was aware of and a second one where he wasn't there but one of the other boys gave his details?

Hi, yes I did question this but have checked with the other boys parents and they agree it was the day before and at a later time! Honesly I went mad at him to begin with thinking he had purposely done it but he isn't great at lying and was totally genuine when he said it wasn't even the right day and said it was only £1.50 so he wouldn't have not paid. One if the other lads mum questioned the truth as she said her son didn't have any money but when I said that to my so he said he never does mum so we just pay for him! For the sake of £1.50 they had I don't think they would have rolled it unless there was a problem to be honest. I wouldn't have been ready to believe him as kids will be kids except the fact we have had no other letters and rhe date and time are wrong so just screams balls up to me! Lol

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Apr 2023 ==

So it seems these were Penalty Fares that were then not paid (not paid promptly to secure the £50 rate) and not paid at all. They are I assume now out of time to submit an appeal (is that correct)?

The OP is confident that their son was not issued with any Penalty Fare documentation on the train by the staff on board.

The son says the ticket machine was not working (but presumably has no proof of that - eg a photo of non working machine).

Not sure what avenues are open to the OP - I suppose they could write back in response to the letter putting their son's side of the story to Southern (I would not ring up - the outline of the conversation posted above demonstrates why ringing them is a waste of time), or pay the sum demanded - which will not appeal if the son's story is accurate in every respect.

Is it possible that the staff took names and addresses assuming the standard 'threat to prosecute' letter would be sent out but then back office staff realised the individuals were under 18 and that would not go anywhere so defaulted to the Penalty Fare sum somehow? That seems unlikely to me given that there must be a standard procedure for dealing with people with no tickets / suspected fare evaders under 18 (there will be no shortage of them after all....sort of thing I might have chanced at that age.

Thank you. They are adamant they didn't receive anything in person and i do believe them as they would have worried I would be contacted as they had given their details and we gwve recievdd notbing in the post so couldnt appeal it. They definitely would have paid for the ticket if they had been able to as it is only £1.50 for one stop and have paid it every time before and had the money. I don't know re appeal as I haven't seen any documentation or letters giving 21 days notice to pay the fine in the first place and my son said he was told he may receive one jn the post but they would look into it ( check if machine was down) so said they may not get anything as first offence. He isn't clever enough to make all that up to be honest so I do believe him. I agree pointless to call again but now don't now what to do because there was no info on this letter about what to do to appeal. I guess maybe I just have to wait for another letter ! So frustrating as I am so pleased they felt confident enough to get the train to the next village ( I wouldn't have been). We live in a village that has no transport service in the evenings and weekends so they walk into town to get the train to the next village. I worry this will put them off now all for the sake of £1.50 and not purposely trying to avoid paying it.

 

[Mzzzs]

Maybe write to them with your side its usually better than speaking on the phone

 

[WesternLancer]

Hi, yes I did question this but have checked with the other boys parents and they agree it was the day before and at a later time! Honesly I went mad at him to begin with thinking he had purposely done it but he isn't great at lying and was totally genuine when he said it wasn't even the right day and said it was only £1.50 so he wouldn't have not paid. One if the other lads mum questioned the truth as she said her son didn't have any money but when I said that to my so he said he never does mum so we just pay for him! For the sake of £1.50 they had I don't think they would have rolled it unless there was a problem to be honest. I wouldn't have been ready to believe him as kids will be kids except the fact we have had no other letters and rhe date and time are wrong so just screams balls up to me! Lol

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Apr 2023 ==


Thank you. They are adamant they didn't receive anything in person and i do believe them as they would have worried I would be contacted as they had given their details and we gwve recievdd notbing in the post so couldnt appeal it. They definitely would have paid for the ticket if they had been able to as it is only £1.50 for one stop and have paid it every time before and had the money. I don't know re appeal as I haven't seen any documentation or letters giving 21 days notice to pay the fine in the first place and my son said he was told he may receive one jn the post but they would look into it ( check if machine was down) so said they may not get anything as first offence. He isn't clever enough to make all that up to be honest so I do believe him. I agree pointless to call again but now don't now what to do because there was no info on this letter about what to do to appeal. I guess maybe I just have to wait for another letter ! So frustrating as I am so pleased they felt confident enough to get the train to the next village ( I wouldn't have been). We live in a village that has no transport service in the evenings and weekends so they walk into town to get the train to the next village. I worry this will put them off now all for the sake of £1.50 and not purposely trying to avoid paying it.

Thanks for replying! Got to say I did not feel I was helping by implying your son might not have been telling the whole truth as obv you know him and I don't.
Yes, good that they do use the train as you say - should be safer and less hassle. I know the area myself having grown up not far from Uckfield back in the 70s

I fear risk of you not responding / paying is that it gets escalated for debt collection maybe - and this is not what you need. The only way to avoid that is to pay it then argue with them about it - but chances of a refund obv decline then....

Prob best you keep an eye on the thread for a day or two as people do give good advice on there and it may be that better informed people than me will post the options that are available to you or the consequences of different courses of action for you to weigh up.

 

[ktiggeroo]

So it seems these were Penalty Fares that were then not paid (not paid promptly to secure the £50 rate) and not paid at all. They are I assume now out of time to submit an appeal (is that correct)?

The OP is confident that their son was not issued with any Penalty Fare documentation on the train by the staff on board.

The son says the ticket machine was not working (but presumably has no proof of that - eg a photo of non working machine).

Not sure what avenues are open to the OP - I suppose they could write back in response to the letter putting their son's side of the story to Southern (I would not ring up - the outline of the conversation posted above demonstrates why ringing them is a waste of time), or pay the sum demanded - which will not appeal if the son's story is accurate in every respect.

Is it possible that the staff took names and addresses assuming the standard 'threat to prosecute' letter would be sent out but then back office staff realised the individuals were under 18 and that would not go anywhere so defaulted to the Penalty Fare sum somehow? That seems unlikely to me given that there must be a standard procedure for dealing with people with no tickets / suspected fare evaders under 18 (there will be no shortage of them after all....sort of thing I might have chanced at that age.

I know this isn't going to sound very helpful (sorry @ktiggeroo ) - but on the basis that if I had been caught fare evading at the age of 14 I definitely would have not told my parents and would have hoped the problem 'went away' - is it possible that you son might not have bought a ticket as they know they are often not checked in the eves between Buxted and Uckfield, even tho it's less than £2, got stopped and questioned, issued with the Penalty Fare notice, didn't fully understand what it was, threw it away, hoped that would be the end of the matter, forgot about it? - then some weeks later this turns up at parental address.
Do you have evidence that your son does regularly buy tickets for train travel like this (eg do you ever see old tickets discarded at home, if not paid for by cash: any bank statement records that show ticket purchases)?

I suppose if you can proove that your son was not on the train at the time detailed on the letter you could just write back and say that - Southern would have to proove that he was, but they might just escalate the whole thing to court anyway so you would have to be prepared to go to court I suppose and present your proof and hope the matter would be thrown out - if that is how things like that work (not sure if they just sned the case to court to get the debt listed as a debt they can collect) - problem with all that is that it might not work out and / or might cost you more than £100 worth of time trouble and money.

Apols, I'm not sure if my ramblings are much help.

Sorry I missed some of this!.yes I agree lots of.kida wouldn't pay even the small charge but he does always pay as he uses his card and I have control over his account so can see it. He definitely would have shown me a notice to pay if he had one as in our house they understand the importance of telling me important things so that they don't escalate and he has done this before so I have no reason to doubt he wouldn't now. Don't get me wrong, he is no angel and when I first found out my assumption was that he hadn't paid on purpose but then I saw the date and time were wrong and he told me what happened ( not knowing at the time the date and time were wrong) very calmly and not rehearsed ( I can tell with him because he isn't good at lying ) so I am inclined to believe him. He was definitely at home with us at the time the letter states he was on the train because it was my husbands birthday so we had a family day and I also text him a cross text because he was supposed to cut the grass for his dad and hadn't and I text this to him while he was upstairs ( yes I know but it beats shouting lol) at exactly 3pm on the 2nd when apparently this took place on the train. I also have a text from the night before when he said the incident actually took place which says let me know when you are on the train and this was just before 8pm. He hadn't been on it any other time around then . I was told on the phone that I didn't have to pay it as its his debt. I explained he didn't have that sort of money as legally he isn't allowed to work and pocket money wouldn't cover that ! The man told me to ignore it if I wasn't going to pay and then said I would get another letter and to just ignore it and that would be it. He said they wouldn't take a minor to court but once he is 18 if he failed to pay again it might show up! Unfortunately the other parent paid it not reading the date and time were wrong or querying it and now regrets it and I won't pay out of principal if it turns out he is telling the truth lol

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Apr 2023 ==

Maybe write to them with your side its usually better than speaking on the phone

I would but can't find out where to actually write too that's the problem. The man I called on the letter said they can't so anything about it and I just have to ignore it or pay it!

 

[WesternLancer]

Maybe write to them with your side its usually better than speaking on the phone

Yes, I guess there is at least until 11 May to get a letter / written response back to them (as 11 May seems to be a date they say they will start increasing the sum demanded). I see from the info on Southern Website it is 21 day to lodge an appeal from the date the Penalty Issued - which was the date of travel as detailed on the uploaded letters.

The problem here is that the person who travelled (the son) is stating that they were not issued with a Penalty Fare....

 

[ktiggeroo]

Thanks for replying! Got to say I did not feel I was helping by implying your son might not have been telling the whole truth as obv you know him and I don't.
Yes, good that they do use the train as you say - should be safer and less hassle. I know the area myself having grown up not far from Uckfield back in the 70s

I fear risk of you not responding / paying is that it gets escalated for debt collection maybe - and this is not what you need. The only way to avoid that is to pay it then argue with them about it - but chances of a refund obv decline then....

Prob best you keep an eye on the thread for a day or two as people do give good advice on there and it may be that better informed people than me will post the options that are available to you or the consequences of different courses of action for you to weigh up.

Thank you so much and you didn't upset me at all. I questioned him myself at first believe me lol.
apparently it won't go to a debt agency as he is a minor and I can't be held accountable either they told me so I guess they just hope parents will pay up ( which the other parent did). I'm a bit more cautious though especially when the information isn't accurate . I would just like to know who I query it with but no one seems to know so I guess I will just have to leave it. I have been very clear to tell my son not to ever get on the train again if there is a problem with machine just in case.

 

[WesternLancer]

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Apr 2023 ==


I would but can't find out where to actually write too that's the problem. The man I called on the letter said they can't so anything about it and I just have to ignore it or pay it!

Yes, I would have thought that would be stated on their Revenue Protection Policy see the pdf on the bottom of this page - but that just gives e-mail addresses for Customer Services , nd no postal address and I would not have much faith in them taking it on - but you could try. I would mark any letter / e-mail clearly 'FAO Revenue Protection Team'

Revenue protection policy | Southern Railway

When all passengers pay for a ticket, our service is better for everyone. Read our full policy on dealing with ticketless travel.

www.southernrailway.com

Unless anyone knows if Southern is dealt with by the same office Thameslink is which I think is at Kings Cross Station given letters that are often uploaded on here

 

[ktiggeroo]

Yes, I guess there is at least until 11 May to get a letter / written response back to them (as 11 May seems to be a date they say they will start increasing the sum demanded). I see from the info on Southern Website it is 21 day to lodge an appeal from the date the Penalty Issued - which was the date of travel as detailed on the uploaded letters.

The problem here is that the person who travelled (the son) is stating that they were not issued with a Penalty Fare....

There is no one to respond to up to 11th May! I have called the number on the letter and they told me all I could do was pay or ignore it!.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Apr 2023 ==

Yes, I would have thought that would be stated on their Revenue Protection Policy see the pdf on the bottom of this page - but that just gives e-mail addresses for Customer Services , nd no postal address and I would not have much faith in them taking it on - but you could try. I would mark any letter / e-mail clearly 'FAO Revenue Protection Team'

Revenue protection policy | Southern Railway

When all passengers pay for a ticket, our service is better for everyone. Read our full policy on dealing with ticketless travel.

www.southernrailway.com

Unless anyone knows if Southern is delat with by the same office Thameslink is which I think is at Kings Cross Station given letters that are often uploaded on here

Thank you

 

[WesternLancer]

I would just like to know who I query it with but no one seems to know so I guess I will just have to leave it.

Southern's Revenue Protection Team I think. If you have to e-mail but also wish to post it too then print a copy of the -mail and post it to the Southern registered company address and mark that for Revenue Protection I suppose.

I have been very clear to tell my son not to ever get on the train again if there is a problem with machine just in case.

Might be better to say if machine not workign to always take a picture of the machine as proof, but still get train for personal safety reasons, but you will know the risks.

The other possibility with the wrong date on the letter (when you know your son was at home) is that one of his "friends" travelled, got stopped, and gave your son's name and address? We see examples of that on the forum from time to time. If this is the case then on the occasion your son was actually stopped no action was taken / no penalty fare issued, but then it happened co-incidentally again on another day close to the same date but someone else gave your son's details.

In which case it would be a case of writing a simple message saying eg
"In your letter of xx date you state my son was issued with a penalty Fare at x time on Y date. However, my son was not travelling on a train at that time and I have evidence that he was at x location so I fear that you have been provided with false information. Please could you provide your evidence that my son was the traveller eg CCTV images from the train, or description of the passenger issued the Penalty Fare"

It is claimed on threads where impersonation is a factor that staff usually take a basic description of the person stopped as this problem is not rare, or an indication of any ID supplied by the person stopped for example.

 

[ktiggeroo]

Southern's Revenue Protection Team I think


Might be better to say if machine not workign to always take a picture of the machine as proof, but still get train for personal safety reasons, but you will know the risks.

Yes that is true although my son doesn't always think about what ifs or in the spare of the moment. Something that I find very frustrating as I am the opposite as you may have guessed by my comments and this post

 

[Mzzzs]

If the staff were wearing body cameras is it possible to get a copy of that? It would most likely reveal what happened on the train.