What can I do to avoid a prosecution?

[bartyy]

Hi all, I'd really appreciate advice on responding to a TfL verification letter.

What happened: In mid-September I was stopped by a revenue officer on the Elizabeth line travelling from Bexley area towards Paddington. I was holding a child ticket bought on the Trainline app. I'm 18, so I should have had an adult ticket. My details were taken and I've now received the standard TfL Appeals and Prosecutions verification letter asking me to accept or deny the offence and give any exceptional reasons why TfL shouldn't prosecute. 10-day deadline.

The complication: Looking back at my Trainline account, I've been buying child tickets for close to a year, not just this once.

My situation: 18, gap year, retaking A-levels privately and reapplying to university to study law. No regular income, council housing, relying on family support. No previous penalty fares, warnings or convictions.

My draft reply (accepts full responsibility, asks for a warning):

Dear Appeals and Prosecutions Team,

Thank you for your letter regarding my journey on [date]. I accept full responsibility for travelling without the correct adult ticket. It was my responsibility to make sure I held a valid ticket for every journey, and I failed to do that. I am sorry. I am not offering excuses, but I would ask you to consider my circumstances before deciding how to deal with this.

I am 18 and currently in a gap year, retaking my A-levels privately while reapplying to university. This means I am not in full-time education with the support that comes with it, and the costs of private exam entries and study fall on me and my family. I have no regular income. I live in council housing and rely on my family for support, and they are already stretched meeting everyday living costs as well as the costs of my gap year. [I am actively applying for part-time and seasonal work to contribute.]

I am reapplying to university to study law, and I hope to build a career in the legal profession. A criminal conviction at this stage would have a serious and lasting effect on that future, well beyond any fine. I would ask you to take this into account.

I have never received a penalty fare, warning or conviction for any offence. Being stopped has made me take this seriously, and I now buy the correct adult ticket and check it before every journey.

I am willing to pay the full fare owed, and I would accept a warning letter. I respectfully ask that you deal with this matter by way of a warning rather than prosecution.


My questions:

1. Is TfL likely to find the previous journeys from Trainline records?
2. Should I disclose the previous journeys and offer to repay them, or is that likely to make things worse?
3. Is my draft reasonable, and is there anything I should add or remove?
4. Is it worth paying a solicitor in my situation, and are there any you'd recommend for TfL cases?
5. Should I ask TfL for an extension while I get advice?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Doppelganger]

Do you mean Abbey Wood? The Elizabeth Line doesn't go through Bexley

 

[bartyy]

Do you mean Abbey Wood? The Elizabeth Line doesn't go through Bexley

Yep, Abbey Wood to Paddington

 

[SECR 65]

Hi all, I'd really appreciate advice on responding to a TfL verification letter.

I'll do my best - others know more about TfL than I do!

My questions:

1. Is TfL likely to find the previous journeys from Trainline records?

Most train operating companies would do an investigation. TfL definitely have an ivestigation team. They may well look into your journey history, especially if it's on TfL-operated trains. As I understand it, when prosecuting (which TfL do a lot) it's only the individual offence when you were caught that is specifically shown to the court.

1. Should I disclose the previous journeys and offer to repay them, or is that likely to make things worse?

Only talk about what you're being asked. 100% don't mention them.

1. Is my draft reasonable, and is there anything I should add or remove?

See comments below

1. Is it worth paying a solicitor in my situation, and are there any you'd recommend for TfL cases?

Yes, we often see solicitors manage to avoid prosecution with TfL, which is otherwise almost guaranteed. They would cost in the region of £800. Use someone specialised in fare evasion. There's a list of some used by people on here before - you might be able to find it - or someone with more time than me right now can.

1. Should I ask TfL for an extension while I get advice?

You could do, but I'd try to avoid it. You don't want to make them grumpy.

What happened: In mid-September I was stopped by a revenue officer on the Elizabeth line travelling from Bexley area towards Paddington. I was holding a child ticket bought on the Trainline app. I'm 18, so I should have had an adult ticket. My details were taken and I've now received the standard TfL Appeals and Prosecutions verification letter asking me to accept or deny the offence and give any exceptional reasons why TfL shouldn't prosecute. 10-day deadline.

The complication: Looking back at my Trainline account, I've been buying child tickets for close to a year, not just this once.

My situation: 18, gap year, retaking A-levels privately and reapplying to university to study law. No regular income, council housing, relying on family support. No previous penalty fares, warnings or convictions.

My draft reply (accepts full responsibility, asks for a warning):

Dear Appeals and Prosecutions Team,

Thank you for your letter regarding my journey on [date]. I accept full responsibility for travelling without the correct adult ticket. It was my responsibility to make sure I held a valid ticket for every journey, and I failed to do that. I am sorry. I am not offering excuses, but I would ask you to consider my circumstances before deciding how to deal with this.

I am 18 and currently in a gap year, retaking my A-levels privately while reapplying to university. This means I am not in full-time education with the support that comes with it, and the costs of private exam entries and study fall on me and my family. I have no regular income. I live in council housing and rely on my family for support, and they are already stretched meeting everyday living costs as well as the costs of my gap year. [I am actively applying for part-time and seasonal work to contribute.]

I'm afraid I can't imagine they'll care that much about your circumstances. They prosecute something like 15000 people every year for fare evasion.

I am reapplying to university to study law, and I hope to build a career in the legal profession. A criminal conviction at this stage would have a serious and lasting effect on that future, well beyond any fine. I would ask you to take this into account.

I have never received a penalty fare, warning or conviction for any offence. Being stopped has made me take this seriously, and I now buy the correct adult ticket and check it before every journey.

I am willing to pay the full fare owed, and I would accept a warning letter. I respectfully ask that you deal with this matter by way of a warning rather than prosecution.

Generally the letter is good, if slightly long. However, without trying to scare you, you're incredibly unlikely to come away with a warning without the help of a solicitor. It's worth a try, I suppose.

Thanks in advance.

Let us know what other questions you have. Other members with more TfL knowlegde will be on their way soon I am sure.

 

[Titfield]

It will be quite challenging to avoid a conviction given the circumstances. This is a job for a solicitor who may I stress may be able to convince them to issue a warning.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Yesterday at 21:21 ==

Saying you would accept a warning letter comes across as a failure to understand the gravity of the situation.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Yesterday at 21:23 ==

Finally saying you wish to enter the legal profession and having committed repeated fare evasion over a long period of time does not portray you in the best light in fact the oppposite as it shows a pattern of deliberate offending behaviour. A lawyer has to have the highest possible standards of integrity and honesty.

 

[bartyy]

Thank you so much for the comments, I really appreciate it.
It seems I am likely going to have to get a solicitor.
Does this mean I should ask for the extension for sure now?
Would it be also be possible to tag me in any lists or suggestions of experienced solicitors. Thank you so much.

 

[Titfield]

A solicitor may decide to send a holding letter whilst they discuss the matter with you. A holding letter from a solicitor will carry far more weight than one from you which may simply be seen as a delaying tactic.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Yesterday at 22:50 ==

If you use the post search facility in the top right hand corner and insert solicitor recommendations you will find a thread that by scrolling down you will see the names of 4 solicitors who specialise in this type of work.

The forum members do not make recommendations but simply provide the details of a number of firms who undertake this type of work.

 

[WesternLancer]

Hi all, I'd really appreciate advice on responding to a TfL verification letter.

What happened: In mid-September I was stopped by a revenue officer on the Elizabeth line travelling from Bexley area towards Paddington. I was holding a child ticket bought on the Trainline app. I'm 18, so I should have had an adult ticket. My details were taken and I've now received the standard TfL Appeals and Prosecutions verification letter asking me to accept or deny the offence and give any exceptional reasons why TfL shouldn't prosecute. 10-day deadline.

The complication: Looking back at my Trainline account, I've been buying child tickets for close to a year, not just this once.

My situation: 18, gap year, retaking A-levels privately and reapplying to university to study law. No regular income, council housing, relying on family support. No previous penalty fares, warnings or convictions.

My draft reply (accepts full responsibility, asks for a warning):

Dear Appeals and Prosecutions Team,

Thank you for your letter regarding my journey on [date]. I accept full responsibility for travelling without the correct adult ticket. It was my responsibility to make sure I held a valid ticket for every journey, and I failed to do that. I am sorry. I am not offering excuses, but I would ask you to consider my circumstances before deciding how to deal with this.

I am 18 and currently in a gap year, retaking my A-levels privately while reapplying to university. This means I am not in full-time education with the support that comes with it, and the costs of private exam entries and study fall on me and my family. I have no regular income. I live in council housing and rely on my family for support, and they are already stretched meeting everyday living costs as well as the costs of my gap year. [I am actively applying for part-time and seasonal work to contribute.]

I am reapplying to university to study law, and I hope to build a career in the legal profession. A criminal conviction at this stage would have a serious and lasting effect on that future, well beyond any fine. I would ask you to take this into account.

I have never received a penalty fare, warning or conviction for any offence. Being stopped has made me take this seriously, and I now buy the correct adult ticket and check it before every journey.

I am willing to pay the full fare owed, and I would accept a warning letter. I respectfully ask that you deal with this matter by way of a warning rather than prosecution.


My questions:

1. Is TfL likely to find the previous journeys from Trainline records?
2. Should I disclose the previous journeys and offer to repay them, or is that likely to make things worse?
3. Is my draft reasonable, and is there anything I should add or remove?
4. Is it worth paying a solicitor in my situation, and are there any you'd recommend for TfL cases?
5. Should I ask TfL for an extension while I get advice?

Thanks in advance.

I think the end of this draft needs a re write, at least in tone - I mean who wouldn't be willing to pay the fare owed and get a warning if it was all that was needed to prevent a court fine and associated record....
ie this bit:

I am willing to pay the full fare owed, and I would accept a warning letter. I respectfully ask that you deal with this matter by way of a warning rather than prosecution.

But I suspect this needs to be considered in the context of the TfL policy because from what we see on here the general TfL approach seems to be to prosecute for evasion like this unless there is (I assume) relevant mitigation in line with their policy - so this document needs a good look over if not already seen

https://content.tfl.gov.uk/revenue-enforcement-and-prosecutions-policy.pdf

More broadly, if you are planning to study law, I assume that's because you are keen to work in that area in due course. So you really, really need to think how this all looks - basically long term petty crime of avoiding paying your fares and ripping off the taxpayer as a result - this needs to be a wake up call for you - although I suspect you have arrived at the forum because it has been a wake up call.

But I do recognise it's not easy being 18 in an expensive part of the country, so I have some sympathy.

We do seem to see legal help increasing (but I doubt guaranteeing) the prospects of TfL not prosecuting people, but as mentioned above you are looking at around £750+ for that assistance.

Especially if money is tight it's probably worth trying to find out the extent to which a conviction for this sort of offence would be career limiting for you - at this stage - eg the need to declare it when applying for university law courses, how long or if at all you might need to declare it to employers in due course (esp legal employers I guess) - should it end up in court.
I think @Fawkes Cat has given informed advice on this in the past.

You can also get advice here on things as they progress, which at least will tell you what to prepare for and how best to deal with it to try and get the least worst outcome that you might be able to achieve.

Balanced against all this, your earnings potential in law (which I realise is some years off yet) will hopefully make £750+ look like a fairly small sum - so looked at that way it might be a reasonably good 'investment' if it helped avoid a conviction that you'd be better off not having.

People have mentioned legal firms up thread that specialise in this sort of work - here is the list of ones that have been mentioned on this forum in the past. You can of course ring them for quotes


Manak Solicitors

Fare Evasion Solicitors | Kent & London | Manak Solicitors

manaksolicitors.co.uk

Makwanas

Fare Evasion Solicitors London | High Success Rate | TFL Solicitors

www.makwanas.co.uk

http://www.grayhooperholt.co.uk/default.asp?id=30

https://penmansedgwick.com/fare-evasion/


Hope all this is of help to you in terms of trying to weigh up your options

 

[tatitiliti]

Hi all, I'd really appreciate advice on responding to a TfL verification letter.

What happened: In mid-September I was stopped by a revenue officer on the Elizabeth line travelling from Bexley area towards Paddington. I was holding a child ticket bought on the Trainline app. I'm 18, so I should have had an adult ticket. My details were taken and I've now received the standard TfL Appeals and Prosecutions verification letter asking me to accept or deny the offence and give any exceptional reasons why TfL shouldn't prosecute. 10-day deadline.

The complication: Looking back at my Trainline account, I've been buying child tickets for close to a year, not just this once.

My situation: 18, gap year, retaking A-levels privately and reapplying to university to study law. No regular income, council housing, relying on family support. No previous penalty fares, warnings or convictions.

My draft reply (accepts full responsibility, asks for a warning):

Dear Appeals and Prosecutions Team,

Thank you for your letter regarding my journey on [date]. I accept full responsibility for travelling without the correct adult ticket. It was my responsibility to make sure I held a valid ticket for every journey, and I failed to do that. I am sorry. I am not offering excuses, but I would ask you to consider my circumstances before deciding how to deal with this.

I am 18 and currently in a gap year, retaking my A-levels privately while reapplying to university. This means I am not in full-time education with the support that comes with it, and the costs of private exam entries and study fall on me and my family. I have no regular income. I live in council housing and rely on my family for support, and they are already stretched meeting everyday living costs as well as the costs of my gap year. [I am actively applying for part-time and seasonal work to contribute.]

I am reapplying to university to study law, and I hope to build a career in the legal profession. A criminal conviction at this stage would have a serious and lasting effect on that future, well beyond any fine. I would ask you to take this into account.

I have never received a penalty fare, warning or conviction for any offence. Being stopped has made me take this seriously, and I now buy the correct adult ticket and check it before every journey.

I am willing to pay the full fare owed, and I would accept a warning letter. I respectfully ask that you deal with this matter by way of a warning rather than prosecution.


My questions:

1. Is TfL likely to find the previous journeys from Trainline records?
2. Should I disclose the previous journeys and offer to repay them, or is that likely to make things worse?
3. Is my draft reasonable, and is there anything I should add or remove?
4. Is it worth paying a solicitor in my situation, and are there any you'd recommend for TfL cases?
5. Should I ask TfL for an extension while I get advice?

Thanks in advance.

TfL don’t offer out of court settlements, so the best you can hope for would be for a warning letter that we’ve only seen achieved on rare occasions with (1) the use of a solicitor, (2) severe mitigating circumstances, (3) (very occasionally) for one-off offences and/or (4) they think they wouldn’t be able to gather enough evidence to prosecute you. As you’ve been misusing traceable e-tickets for over a year and haven’t listed any obvious mitigating circumstances, (2), (3) and (4) probably don’t apply here.

TfL are almost certain to prosecute you, especially if they check your purchase history which for misuse of a child ticket is one of the most obvious purchase histories to audit. However, standard TfL byelaw/RoRA offences don’t usually show up on standard DBS checks and (I think) enhanced DBS checks too and the record usually lapses after a year even if a declaration is required. As far as I’m aware, only undergraduate courses requiring safeguarding in regulated professions such as medicine, teaching, etc. require a DBS check and criminal offence declaration, not law.

If you’re financially struggling, I wouldn’t bother with a solicitor and would try my luck sending a toned down far more conciliatory, apologetic (and concise) letter than the one you have written. They don’t care about your life plans (these are not mitigating circumstances and, if anything, make your behaviour even less excusable), but they may care that you permanently change your behaviour and always pay the correct fare going forward. Make sure that you don’t admit to more than one offence unless you’re directly asked in the unlikely circumstances they don’t audit you.

If you go to court, you will very likely end up paying far less than the fares you avoided and, as I explained above, it won’t really affect you in the long run anyway if you’re years from applying for legal jobs or in the undergraduate admissions process. So don’t be scared of court as it’s by far the most likely outcome - just use this as a basis to change your behaviour in future.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Today at 02:05 ==

We do seem to see legal help increasing (but I doubt guaranteeing) the prospects of TfL not prosecuting people

I would say having a solicitor makes a highly improbable outcome slightly less improbable - I’ve also seen a couple of warning letters where solicitors haven’t been involved too but, in the vast majority of cases, TfL prosecute.

 

[walkingsophie]

I have seen a couple TfL cases here with young people with solicitors getting warnings instead of prosecutions. Obviously it is up to you to weigh the costs and benefits of getting a solicitor, and people who have posted before me have provided a good summary of those.

 

[SuspectUsual]

I have never received a penalty fare, warning or conviction for any offence. Being stopped has made me take this seriously, and I now buy the correct adult ticket and check it before every journey.

This paragraph of the OP’s draft response needs some work, I think.

By their own admission there’s a year’s worth of deliberate evasion that TfL will almost certainly find if they do even the most basic investigation, and one has to assume they will, so implying this is a one-off isn’t going to sit well with them

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Especially if money is tight it's probably worth trying to find out the extent to which a conviction for this sort of offence would be career limiting for you - at this stage - eg the need to declare it when applying for university law courses, how long or if at all you might need to declare it to employers in due course (esp legal employers I guess) - should it end up in court.
I think @Fawkes Cat has given informed advice on this in the past.

Sorry, but I don't feel able to comment on the impact on someone planning to become a lawyer.

My general advice for any (actual or potential) student would be to
- look at the website for the relevant regulator to see what it has to say
- look at the website for the institution you're at/planning to go to
- if you are already a student, talk to your student union

Those should give you a good idea of how much of a problem a conviction would be for someone with your career ambitions. And that in turn will help you decide how to deal with TfL.

 

[WesternLancer]

Sorry, but I don't feel able to comment on the impact on someone planning to become a lawyer.

My general advice for any (actual or potential) student would be to
- look at the website for the relevant regulator to see what it has to say
- look at the website for the institution you're at/planning to go to
- if you are already a student, talk to your student union

Those should give you a good idea of how much of a problem a conviction would be for someone with your career ambitions. And that in turn will help you decide how to deal with TfL.

Thanks. Yes it was that sort of advice that I thought would be helpful to the OP

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Today at 08:12 ==

I would say having a solicitor makes a highly improbable outcome slightly less improbable - I’ve also seen a couple of warning letters where solicitors haven’t been involved too but, in the vast majority of cases, TfL prosecute.

Yes, I think there was a case in the last circa three months iirc where someone avoided court prosecution from TfL by their own efforts without using a solicitor.
I didn’t make a note of the link to the case but it may be possible to find it on the forum.

EDIT - I think this is the case I was thinking of - the person says what they did, but didn't share full content etc

eg their update is at post #40 and the original issue is on page 1 of the thread
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/caught-using-younger-brothers-11-15-zip-card.300887/page-2