What are my options here?

[londonbridge]

I have a standard off peak day return between Manchester Piccadilly and Horwich parkway, and an advance single on the 18:15 Avanti from Piccadilly to Euston. The 17:13 Northern from Horwich to Piccadilly after the match was cancelled. I’m now on the 17:45 from Horwich but will now miss the Avanti train. Am I allowed to take the next Avanti with my advance or will I need a new ticket? If I buy a new ticket for the next train can I then get a refund on the unused advance?

 

[alistairlees]

You can get on the next train Avanio service from Manchester Piccadilly to London Euston, without penalty. You may need to explain to the guard when they come round, but you do not need to ask permission.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Next Avanti train from Manchester Piccadilly to London Euston should be the 1835 off platform 7.

If you've time, might be an idea to ask the ticket office at Piccadilly to stamp/endorse your onward advance ticket, but not really essential. Believe the 1745 from Horwich Parkway is running ten minutes down, so likely you won't actually have time to do this.

 

[londonbridge]

The advance is an e-ticket on my phone. I knew I’d be okay if my advance was a through ticket from Horwich but wasn’t sure if it still applied with the combo I’ve got. I’ll talk to the Avanti desk before I board in any case.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Jan 2022 ==

And by the time I’d got down from the platform to the concourse I’d just missed the 18:35 anyway, so I spoke to the desk and they printed me off a travel authority so I’m covered and getting the 18:55, which is due in at 21:23. As my original train was due in at 20:31, presumably I can now claim delay repay from Northern as well…

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Almost certainly. Be an interesting claim though given that one ticket is presumably a paper ticket and the other an e-ticket.

 

[yorkie]

There is no requirement to obtain permission to get the next train.

It's a valid claim for the through journey; it would have been easier if you had bought the combination through a split ticket provider e.g. Trainsplit; you'd then have one PDF with both tickets on it and you'd simply upload that to the Delay Repay form.

 

[londonbridge]

Yes, I’ve had a look at the Northern website and can’t see how to submit an online claim involving both tickets so I’m just gonna email them all the details and scans/screenshots. The e-ticket has no price on it so they’ll want a copy of the booking confirmation with the price paid (which luckily I’ve still got). From my experience of reading these boards I wouldn’t be surprised if they try to fob me off with compo for the day return and claim the advance is nothing to do with them. I bought the day return from a machine on the concourse, had I bought it through one of the apps I’d probably have got that as an e-ticket as well.

Train manager came through checking tickets so I showed her my phone and the travel authority and she said “well done, you did the right thing there”.

@yorkie I did look at trainsplit for a through ticket from Horwich but their cheapest offer was more than the cost of the advance plus the return. Given that we didn’t turn up and lost the match 6-0 I could have done without complications with the train journey as well!

 

[alistairlees]

Yes, I’ve had a look at the Northern website and can’t see how to submit an online claim involving both tickets so I’m just gonna email them all the details and scans/screenshots. The e-ticket has no price on it so they’ll want a copy of the booking confirmation with the price paid (which luckily I’ve still got). From my experience of reading these boards I wouldn’t be surprised if they try to fob me off with compo for the day return and claim the advance is nothing to do with them. I bought the day return from a machine on the concourse, had I bought it through one of the apps I’d probably have got that as an e-ticket as well.

Train manager came through checking tickets so I showed her my phone and the travel authority and she said “well done, you did the right thing there”.

@yorkie I did look at trainsplit for a through ticket from Horwich but their cheapest offer was more than the cost of the advance plus the return. Given that we didn’t turn up and lost the match 6-0 I could have done without complications with the train journey as well!

The price of the eTicket is on the reverse.

The guard was incorrect: there is no requirement to endorse your ticket beforehand. There are many situations where it would not be possible, or would unnecessarily delay you further.

 

[yorkie]

Yes, I’ve had a look at the Northern website and can’t see how to submit an online claim involving both tickets so I’m just gonna email them all the details and scans/screenshots. The e-ticket has no price on it so they’ll want a copy of the booking confirmation with the price paid (which luckily I’ve still got). From my experience of reading these boards I wouldn’t be surprised if they try to fob me off with compo for the day return and claim the advance is nothing to do with them. I bought the day return from a machine on the concourse, had I bought it through one of the apps I’d probably have got that as an e-ticket as well.

Train manager came through checking tickets so I showed her my phone and the travel authority and she said “well done, you did the right thing there”.

@yorkie I did look at trainsplit for a through ticket from Horwich but their cheapest offer was more than the cost of the advance plus the return. Given that we didn’t turn up and lost the match 6-0 I could have done without complications with the train journey as well!

That doesn't sound right. If this happens again please let me know.

 

[londonbridge]

I downloaded the ticket to my Apple wallet. The wallet version doesn’t show the price, as per the attached screenshot. However I can retrieve it as a PDF from my LNER account ( I booked it through the LNER app) and that shows the full details including price so I’ll just send Northern that one.

 

[alistairlees]

I downloaded the ticket to my Apple wallet. The wallet version doesn’t show the price, as per the attached screenshot. However I can retrieve it as a PDF from my LNER account ( I booked it through the LNER app) and that shows the full details including price so I’ll just send Northern that one.

As I said, the price is on the reverse. Tap on the icon on the top right to rotate the ticket.

 

[londonbridge]

Ah, I see. Thank you, I never realised that.

 

[Wallsendmag]

As I said, the price is on the reverse. Tap on the icon on the top right to rotate the ticket.

I would have said the second page but yes, easily missed by many.

 

[londonbridge]

I eventually arrived at Euston at 21:20, against an originally scheduled arrival of 20:31, so I’ve put a claim in for 30-59 minutes delay and we’ll see what happens. I submitted photos of both tickets and used the any other comments box to explain the full situation.

Real Time Trains shows the 18:35 Avanti arriving at Euston at 21:01, two down, so even if I’d caught that the delay would still have been 30 minutes. In any case RTT also has my 17:45 from Horwich arriving at Piccadilly at 18:26, which wouldn’t have formed an official connection for the 18:35, since the minimum connection time at Piccadilly is, I believe, 10 minutes.

 

[Class800]

I eventually arrived at Euston at 21:20, against an originally scheduled arrival of 20:31, so I’ve put a claim in for 30-59 minutes delay and we’ll see what happens. I submitted photos of both tickets and used the any other comments box to explain the full situation.

Real Time Trains shows the 18:35 Avanti arriving at Euston at 21:01, two down, so even if I’d caught that the delay would still have been 30 minutes. In any case RTT also has my 17:45 from Horwich arriving at Piccadilly at 18:26, which wouldn’t have formed an official connection for the 18:35, since the minimum connection time at Piccadilly is, I believe, 10 minutes.

Correct - and as you came in on platform 13, it would be reasonable to need the full 10 minutes to make your connection. They should not dispute the fact you couldn't make the 18.35. I also would prefer for my peace of mind to have a travel authority/'back on track' voucher with split tickets if the second is an advance (if it wouldn't delay my journey further to get one), although it is a belt and braces approach, and as pointed out by others above is absolutely not a requirement. Purely something I might do to avoid anxiety.

 

[londonbridge]

Surprise, surprise!

"Dear Mr......

Thank you for your correspondence in respect to the Northern service on 29
January 2022 with our reference.........

We are sorry to learn that your journey between Horwich Parkway and
Manchester Piccadilly was disrupted, and that you were delayed as a result.
Please be assured that we are committed to operating a punctual train service
on all of our routes, continually reviewing and monitoring the cause of all
delays to our trains, to ensure that appropriate measures are put in place to
reduce their recurrence wherever this is possible.

We have reviewed the journey that you claimed for and feel that the journey
details that you have provided are not complete. We have rejected your claim
on this basis but if you think we’ve made an error, please open an appeal
using the following link:



Your planned route (scheduled times):
Departing 1713 from Horwich Parkway to Manchester Piccadilly arriving 1745.

Route we think you took (actual times):
Departed 1752 from Horwich Parkway to Manchester Piccadilly arrived 1826.

Delay repay does not in any way limit or exclude your other legal rights to
compensation as a consumer where we are at fault, under the Consumer Rights
Act 2015 or otherwise.

Should you have any further queries or concerns then please do not hesitate
to contact us again at delayrepay@northernrailway.co.uk.

Kind regards,
Northern"

I gave a full description of what happened and included photos of the return plus a pdf of the eticket so how they can claim the journey details are "not complete" I have no idea. Note also that, as I suspected they might, they describe my journey as being from Horwich Parkway to Manchester Piccadilly, with no reference to Euston or the Avanti advance.

I'm just gonna email 'em at the address given and hope they see sense.

 

[yorkie]

Northern Rail are an appalling company and this response is absolutely in line with my expectations of a company of their poor reputation.

I'd say "Can you confirm we are in deadlock please? If so, I will escalate the matter to the Rail Ombudsman"

Then contact them through this form: https://www.railombudsman.org/making-a-complaint/start-a-complaint/

 

[Merseysider]

I agree with @yorkie ’s assessment.

Northern Rail are an appalling company

this bit in particular

If you want any help writing / proofreading of your letter to the Ombudsman please do post a message/draft here.

 

[londonbridge]

Thanks guys, I've now emailed them again, if they reject it again I'll take up your suggestions and come back to you for further assistance.

 

[robbeech]

This is how they work. You have to have the absolute simplest of claims to get them to pay out without an ordeal. Thankfully this is almost all claims. A missed connection, a train cancelled and a second train taking you over the next threshold, a retimed service, a service you couldn’t board due to overcrowding, a service that runs fast through a station to make up time, are all common rejection reasons with Northern. With initial claims only around 30%, the frequency of rejections and people give up I suspect they payout less than 25% of total eligible money. It’s no threat to them so they might aswell run late.

Follow the advice of escalation if you don’t get anywhere.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Correct - and as you came in on platform 13, it would be reasonable to need the full 10 minutes to make your connection.

This is just an incidental point, but if you are connecting from P13 at Piccadilly to the main station, you can just use the outer bridge and join Avanti or whoever mid-platform.
No need to go on the long trek via the main concourse.

 

[londonbridge]

Oh well, a week since I directly emailed them and as yet, no reply…..do they generally take this long (or longer) to reply to direct emails?

 

[Class800]

Oh well, a week since I directly emailed them and as yet, no reply…..do they generally take this long (or longer) to reply to direct emails?

Generally they are not very quick in response - where I work we are expected to reply to all emails within 2 working days, but some sectors don't seem to follow this

 

[londonbridge]

Finally got a reply this morning saying my claim has now been accepted, looks like they’ve seen sense.