What an interesting idea...

[O L Leigh]

Fair play. That's certainly not an uncommon standpoint.

Then again, an absence of proof or shifting interpretations is not something unique to religion. Whenever I see scientists on the TV trying to explain quantum physics or sub-atomic particles I start to think that they've just made it all up on the say-so of some unproven theory by such-and-such respected predecessor. And how many times in the past century has the stature, power, speed and feeding habits of Tyrannosaurus Rex been altered...? However, if it allows them to con billions of dollars to build Large Hadron Colliders to play with then I wish them all the best.

Have we really come so far...? It strikes me that the secular society has simply swapped one set of beliefs that it can't prove and finds unpalatable for another set of beliefs that it can't prove simply because they sit more comfortably with their consciences.

I'm happy to keep an open mind. I have issues with organised religion, but then again I'm not happy to deny the existence of a God either. One thing I do know though is that man's inhumanity to man is not necessarily evidence of the absence of a divine being of some sort.

O L Leigh

 

[Snapper]

Have we really come so far...? It strikes me that the secular society has simply swapped one set of beliefs that it can't prove and finds unpalatable for another set of beliefs that it can't prove simply because they sit more comfortably with their consciences.
O L Leigh

The great difference being that atheists and a secular society don't go around killing people in the name of anything (or anyone) because of their consciences.

 

[Doorslammer]

Crusades, Spanish Inquisition, weird old ladies with Watchtowers in hand and a St. Christopher in the other. Forcing the issue won't change me...

Old lady: "Hello, you must repent your evil ways and change your views on the Holy Spirit, else you will spend all o0f eternity in Hell, where there are only Class 153s for transport and Satan will forever harass you for the correct ticket..."
Me: "Super, I'm convinced, where do I sign?"

The problem with religion for me is that if you aren't religious (I don't deny God, but I can't prove He is also existing and making faces behind me), you will no doubt come across someone in life that has made it his personal goal to be the next John the Baptist.

A previous workplace had a Jewish convert and our boss and his family is Christian (which church escapes me for now). Now the boss was OK to deal with, he tried to put across his views about me but he knew it was a lost cause as such . But one of his sons, who did some Saturdays alongside me, is someone I'll never forget. Not only was I condemned to Hell for all eternity, it was also known that when break time was on, often a Bible, open at a certain page or two, would be pushed into my hands (luckily the hands that weren't conveying food at the time). I would like to mention that the chap of Jewish teachings, would often let me know on things happening at the time for his belief system, but never once forced it upon me.

Now, if anyone fancies a laugh, do what I used to do in my sleepless night phase, and watch a televangelist or two. Creflo Dollar is a good bloke, I like his delivery in his speeches, no problem with him as such. But Kenneth Copeland is something else entirely. Fire and brimstone. But for pure common and obvious thievery, Benny Hinn takes the biscuit (and your wallet). I swear I will start taking a videotape (sorry, DVD or whatever it is now ) and show it to all those who are thinking about religion. You know, to show them who to avoid, at least.

Oh, oops. I'm all for the bus thing entirely.

 

[Metroland]

I think its all speculation, that’s where I sit. I agree with OL Leigh in saying atheism is ask an act of faith too. I couldn’t honestly take the standpoint there is a God or there isn’t one. There is one problem with the concept of God though, when intelligent designers are talked about. Who made God?

Religion has failed in any case, my understanding is it is to promote peace and understanding and a certain amount of self restraint. Instead, it has promoted countless clashes of cultures, and rejection in the face of science, persecution and overpopulation. I think there is something to be said for rejecting materialism, but more to do with reasons of exploitation of a finite planet, its plant, animal and human population and promotion of greed and power, which has been traditionally the undoing of many people societies and indeed religion itself. There are far too many Christians, Jews and Muslims salivating over their next purchase or breaking every rule in the book to take much of it really seriously and certainly many atrocities committed in the name of religion for me to have anything to do with it comfortably - as well as re-writing the rules as they go along. If it provide a crutch for people to get through life, that’s fine by me. I reject the notion however, that people who are not religious are not high minded. Most people want a better society, a fair society as well as personal success and wish to do the right thing. We all think we are good guys (albeit with flaws) however mis-guided we appear to others.

It strikes me that what religion tries to do is boil everything down as a black and white issue, when it rarely, if ever is, with much based on superstition rather than hard evidence, kindness or just plain improvement of the human race. Ignorance has always been a problem, but I see no more truth or advancement in religion than some branches of science or social ideas such as capitalism, communism and so on. These systems are bound to failure as human nature itself is imperfect, maladaptive and hard wired through thousands of years of evolution with some pretty destructive tendencies. Like it or not, we are all on a constant learning process, presented by limits of who were are and what we have and there will be many tears shed along the way. One can only try ones best and be kind and sympathetic to others in the hope we set an example, or at least imagine the consequences if not. Should there be a God, we would be judged on that, not membership of baseless, conflicting cults that work on fear and division.

 

[O L Leigh]

The great difference being that atheists and a secular society don't go around killing people in the name of anything (or anyone) because of their consciences.

True.

Secular societies usually think up some other excuse, such as control of natural resources, supposed threats to their own security or the desire to exert their own influence in different areas.

O L Leigh

 

[Spaceflower]

theres no God..if there was ,how come I only get delayed on my way home!

Yes, many will see the funny side, but.....

There's probably no God. Now stop worrying and enjoy your life

That's going to offend many people of many religions as it could easily be interpretated as their religion/belief is a waste of their life?

Now in a country as multi-cultural as ours, especially in an important 'world city', I really think it's impact will be amplified and therefore will be anything but 'an interesting idea'.

It's called respect; for other cultures/views, not just our own.

 

[Beaker]

How beer is better than religion:

1. You can prove you have a beer.

2. There are laws saying beer labels can't lie to you.

3. You don't have to wait 2000+ years for another beer.

4. Nobody's ever been burned, hanged or tortured over his brand of beer.

5. When you have a beer, you don't knock on people's doors trying to give it away.

6. They don't force beer on children, who can't think for themselves.

7. No beer has ever caused a major war.

8. Beer doesn't tell you how to have sex.

9. No one will kill you for not drinking beer.

10. If you've devoted your life to beer, there are groups to help you stop.

 

[Pumbaa]

I'm all for it.

I hope it invokes debate and suggestive thought. In the light that religion itself is the antithesis of a syllogism, I endorse the message. My other half is heavily Christian, and she has no problem with it either.

If I weren't so tired, I'd prove O L Leighs earlier point about atheism being a belief of no God with a little help from Heidegger, but I'll save that for tomorrow...

 

[Donny Dave]

I've just skim read the topic (and the article), and the advert does raise a very good point ....

Not everyone in the world does believe in God (I don't), and sometimes, people like me do get fed up of adverts and messeges preaching at us to believe in God/Allah/etc.

Anyway, forget about God and religion, we're all going to hell anyway. Every religion and sect in the world does say that if you don't follow them, then you will go to hell. That means all muslims will go there, as they are not members of Methodist/Catholic/etc churches, and vice versa.

 

[Snapper]

Fantastic! Donations have now reached over £107,000!

 

[Broken Viking]

There's probably no God. Now stop worrying and enjoy your life.

Personally I quite like the message. Even though I'm a Asatrúer and thus a Polytheist myself (A believer in and worshipper of multiple gods), the message comes across to me as something both amusing and just as valid as my own beliefs. 8)

I hate it. Sorry to be that brutally honest, but it completely disagrees with my beliefs. I was brought up as a Roman Catholic and I feel that the campaign is morally reprehensible as it offends most of the people in the world, ie. everyone with a religion.

As I just said above I'm a religious person myself, but personally I don't find the advertisement offensive in any way.

After all: If Christianity and other religions have the right to display posters saying "Jesus loves you", "The Lord is your savior", "Believe in the Lord and die happy" and stuff along those lines, then non-ecclesiastical faiths (Faiths without god/gods, such as Atheism, Bhuddism and Scientology) have just as much right to post advertisements conducting their own beliefs. 8)

Personally, the only kind of religious messages that I find particularly offensive are the ones that literally force a belief onto others, such as the typically evangelical "Follow the Lord Jesus Christ, or be eternally damned", and ones that put-down a different religion in the process, such as something like "Only the word of the Lord is true. The Pagans, Wiccans and Odinists amongst you are urged to repent before it's too late." :mad:

How beer is better than religion:

1. You can prove you have a beer.
2. There are laws saying beer labels can't lie to you.
3. You don't have to wait 2000+ years for another beer.
4. Nobody's ever been burned, hanged or tortured over his brand of beer.
5. When you have a beer, you don't knock on people's doors trying to give it away.
6. They don't force beer on children, who can't think for themselves.
7. No beer has ever caused a major war.
8. Beer doesn't tell you how to have sex.
9. No one will kill you for not drinking beer.
10. If you've devoted your life to beer, there are groups to help you stop.

For me personally, that's possibly the most valid and thought-provoking post in this thread so far. Nice one Beaker! 8)

 

[EE Type 3]

How beer is better than religion:

1. You can prove you have a beer.

2. There are laws saying beer labels can't lie to you.

3. You don't have to wait 2000+ years for another beer.

4. Nobody's ever been burned, hanged or tortured over his brand of beer.

5. When you have a beer, you don't knock on people's doors trying to give it away.

6. They don't force beer on children, who can't think for themselves.

7. No beer has ever caused a major war.

8. Beer doesn't tell you how to have sex.

9. No one will kill you for not drinking beer.

10. If you've devoted your life to beer, there are groups to help you stop.

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