What additional measures can be put in place to reduce bridge strikes?

[zwk500]

I found this interesting: A36 Wilton, via Googlemaps: advisory?

This came up in the Plymouth thread as well, and the regulations are that only flat deck bridges can have the prohibition signs, arches can only use the warning signs. See page 42 of the Traffic Signs Manual linked to in Post #34. #22 (Edited after thread split renumbered the post).

 

[Deafdoggie]

A day in the Potteries: Glebe Street railway bridge, Stoke-on-Trent

Stoke-on-Trent has long been infamous amongst transport operators for its low-bridges, which have to be avoided by tall vehicles at all costs; hence bus operators like Potteries Motor Traction employing large numbers of single deck buses, and low-height double deck buses in the City. One of the...

www.flickr.com

I stand corrected, it's signed at 10'3" and no weight restriction. But a 10" single decker doesn't fit. Mini and midi buses do fit though. The angle of approach can be seen in this photo, hence the issues. Many, many years ago it was a level crossing.

 

[spyinthesky]

The brand on the side of the lorry isn't always the lorry owner. But I'd assume "the railway" will recoup all the costs it can.


Surely only if the lorry driver is proven to be fully at fault after a full investigation. Ruining someone's life if it wasn't their fault seems very harsh. There is always an attitude on these forums that lorry drivers are automatically in the wrong and must be shot if they make a mistake and maybe we will hold a bit of an investigation after. If railwaymen make a fault then noone must apportion any blame till after all the details are known and even then it's likely there'll be some mitigating factor. Whilst it is most likely the lorry drivers fault, we can not say for certain at this stage & I trust the police and their employer are more understanding than you.

Quite obvious that an investigation would take place before hanging the lorry driver.
Mine and probably some others attitudes are based on personal experiences.

 

[Bald Rick]

The prevalence of bridge strikes shows that existing arrangements, predominantly signs, don't work.

Except, overwhelmingly, they do work. The ratio of overheight vehicles striking rail bridges to overheight vehicles correctly taking a route that avoids the low bridge is minute. At an adjusted guess, around one in a million. In terms of process failure rates, that’s right up there as exceptional.

That’s not to say more can’t be done, of course.

 

[BrianW]

Except, overwhelmingly, they do work. The ratio of overheight vehicles striking rail bridges to overheight vehicles correctly taking a route that avoids the low bridge is minute. At an adjusted guess, around one in a million. In terms of process failure rates, that’s right up there as exceptional.

That’s not to say more can’t be done, of course.

Good points.

 

[JKF]

The way to fix is is to adjust the position of the lorry driver so that the top of their head is the highest thing on the vehicle. That would encourage a bit more caution, or at least quickly eliminate the problem through natural selection.

 

[zwk500]

The way to fix is is to adjust the position of the lorry driver so that the top of their head is the highest thing on the vehicle. That would encourage a bit more caution, or at least quickly eliminate the problem through natural selection.

I realise your suggestion is in jest, but it would also increase the blind spot at the front of the lorry. Possibly even beyond the braking distance of the lorry itself.

 

[BrianW]

The way to fix is is to adjust the position of the lorry driver so that the top of their head is the highest thing on the vehicle. That would encourage a bit more caution, or at least quickly eliminate the problem through natural selection.

There is a serious point in here. People's behaviour is affected by perceptions of risk- sometimes (like with onboard announcements- another thread) too many signs can result in them being ignored. I also recall a TV programme in which a bridge strike driver (near Reading?) had a different 'understanding' of height- was it 4.2 m or 4.02 m? Similarly, badly located signs- eg corners, junctions, trees, ... Evidence already shows that planes on auto are 'better' than pilot-driven; maybe the publicity regarding 'self-drive' road vehicle accidents will be seen in better perspective over time. Hauliers should pay- it's them inconveniencing others whether road or rail users, and putting their drivers at risk- they owe a duty of care to all.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The way to fix is is to adjust the position of the lorry driver so that the top of their head is the highest thing on the vehicle. That would encourage a bit more caution, or at least quickly eliminate the problem through natural selection.

Some sort of radar based alarm (plus possibly even automatic braking as now fitted to some cars) would seem to be a decent fix. You actually want drivers to be lower down so they see cyclists etc better.

Arguably it wouldn't even need to be mandatory, as insurance companies sick of paying out huge claims for bridge repairs would presumably crank premiums up if not fitted.

 

[zwk500]

Some sort of radar based alarm (plus possibly even automatic braking as now fitted to some cars) would seem to be a decent fix. You actually want drivers to be lower down so they see cyclists etc better.

Arguably it wouldn't even need to be mandatory, as insurance companies sick of paying out huge claims for bridge repairs would presumably crank premiums up if not fitted.

I can see this being not accurate enough and therefore triggering so many false alarms that drivers just habitually ignore it. There's plenty of flat deck bridges that are only just clear, but clear nonetheless. And many systems may well struggle to cope with a bridge such as the one in the Plymouth incident. It would also depend on the system being programmed with the height of the trailer, or installing a system that can be swapped between trailers without needing to climb up on top.

It does pose a question though: is it easier to fit every lorry with a warning system, or every bridge with a protection system? Your point about insurance companies being able to spread the cost around is also one to consider.

 

[snowball]

Arched bridges present particular difficulties because they don't have a well-defined height. The height depends on which part of the bridge span you choose to measure it over.

 

[etr221]

I do wonder if - following a bridge strike - railway control should be on to the police/highway authority, to say that as the bridge cannot be guaranteed safe, that road traffic under it - like rail traffic over it - should be suspended until, and to facilitate, bridge inspection.

Might concentrate minds to persuade the highway people that bridge strikes are a serious issue (which I'm not convinced they currently do).

 

[zwk500]

I do wonder if - following a bridge strike - railway control should be on to the police/highway authority, to say that as the bridge cannot be guaranteed safe, that road traffic under it - like rail traffic over it - should be suspended until, and to facilitate, bridge inspection.

Might concentrate minds to persuade the highway people that bridge strikes are a serious issue (which I'm not convinced they currently do).

Nr already does this when a threat is posed to road traffic. However, if they asked to close the road just to punish people until the railway was open the police would give them short shrift, and quite rightly. If they falsley claimed a threat to safety in order to close the road then NR would have some quite serious repurcussions.

Highways people very definitely do take bridge strikes seriously, but the actual incidence of bridge strikes as a traffic incident compared to other types is rather small, and so highways authorities focus their limited resources on areas that pose greater risk to life, such as pedestrian crossing points, blind corners and hidden junctions.

 

[NoRoute]

Have any bridges had goal-posts installed on the approaches?

Where there are hazards from over-head power lines which tall vehicles could make contact with, it is common to have goal posts either side of the hazard, these provide both physical indication of the height limit, they also ensure that the vehicle will make contact with the goal post, which should alert the driver to stop, before they reach the hazard.

That would be my starting point, some form of physical barrier which is designed to be sacrificial, failing safely on impact when a vehicle impacts it but with sufficient noise and disturbance, to alert the driver to stop the vehicle before it strikes the bridge.

 

[zwk500]

Have any bridges had goal-posts installed on the approaches?

Where there are hazards from over-head power lines which tall vehicles could make contact with, it is common to have goal posts either side of the hazard, these provide both physical indication of the height limit, they also ensure that the vehicle will make contact with the goal post, which should alert the driver to stop, before they reach the hazard.

That would be my starting point, some form of physical barrier which is designed to be sacrificial, failing safely on impact when a vehicle impacts it but with sufficient noise and disturbance, to alert the driver to stop the vehicle before it strikes the bridge.

Already done in a lot of places, but hard to get the height right for an arch bridge.

 

[swt_passenger]

Have any bridges had goal-posts installed on the approaches?

Where there are hazards from over-head power lines which tall vehicles could make contact with, it is common to have goal posts either side of the hazard, these provide both physical indication of the height limit, they also ensure that the vehicle will make contact with the goal post, which should alert the driver to stop, before they reach the hazard.

That would be my starting point, some form of physical barrier which is designed to be sacrificial, failing safely on impact when a vehicle impacts it but with sufficient noise and disturbance, to alert the driver to stop the vehicle before it strikes the bridge.

If you follow the link back to the previous Plymouth incident, (in my post #7), I posted some info about the issues with “collision protection beams”, as they are known…