What’s going on with Thameslink?

[Horizon22]

Why does this general area appear to be the railway equivalent of the Bermuda Triangle in terms of frequency of disruption?

See also "Lewisham" for Southeastern. I imagine it's a somewhat complicated junction.

Total lack of investment as treated like a little used branch line for Maintenance? Probably not but it does feel that way and Thameslink seem to consider stations they provide 75-90% of service at as Southern stations in management terms so don't care if trains don't call, it someone else's problems (and yes, I know Southern and Thameslink are effectively the same company sharing resources but in operational management they are not)

Also, Go-ahead owns the local buses so are really happy to have Rail passengers fill them up to create more income.

Control is indeed shared at Three Bridges, so that argument doesn't really hold much weight. Nor does the "buses" argument as they quite far apart in reality from the day-to-day.

 

[43066]

See also "Lewisham" for Southeastern. I imagine it's a somewhat complicated junction.

Surprisingly it generally doesn’t seem to be the cause of too many issues, despite the number of trains being pushed across it!

 

[XAM2175]

Absolutely so. To bring in a different hobby-horse of mine, it is something that would be a lot more difficult to do if everyone was still consulting a paper timetable. Removing printed timetables and instead trying to make everyone use journey planners has made this sort of thing far more possible than it would otherwise would have been.

It would be just as easy to do in a world with only paper timetables

 

[AM9]

It would be just as easy to do in a world with only paper timetables

In the days where only paper timetables were available, the majority of passengers travelling had little or no problem understanding them and could make mental adjustments when lateness or cancellation affected their intended train. Once electronic tiemtables were in use, not only could the railway change them at a whim, but they have also made it difficult for passengers to make their own adjustments because all they are shown is the start and finish times of the journey selected. This 'simplification' has meant that many younger travellers have limited capabilities in reading a full timetable, - maybe that was the intention of the railway to obscure what is really happening on delayed journeys.

 

[WizCastro197]

I think there does need to be a serious evaluation of track, points and signals around the Redhill area. Redhill is always affected by the points, it is never anything else and the Earlswood area suffers from a mixture of all.

It is disappointing now, that these issues have gone on for quite some time with no actual long term improvements to help prevent further disruption in the future.


and

How are Thameslink/Southern/Great Northern/ Gatwick Express services handling the added passengers? Has there been a noticeable difference?

 

[Minstral25]

Control is indeed shared at Three Bridges, so that argument doesn't really hold much weight. Nor does the "buses" argument as they quite far apart in reality from the day-to-day.

I did say "probably not but it does feel that way" - Whenever an issue appears on Thameslink, control only seem to put out warnings for North of the river without referencing the corresponding issues in Southern land. The stations are branded Southern and from a passenger view it seems control expect Southern to cover Thameslink issues which they don't.

Thameslink is too big, so they need to find ways of breaking it down in a way that users can understand. I've long been an advocate of giving each route a number (like they did in the proposals in 2018) to use for disruption information. That way passengers will know their train is delayed or removed. For example, when as usual 9R's (Bedford to Gatwick via Redhill) are removed they often state on twitter and NRE that "services between Bedford and Gatwick/Brighton are reduced" which does not explain that there are no services via Redhill on the route, so they should say "services between Bedford and Gatwick via Redhill have been removed entirely" - if the route was publicised as say "TL2" then passengers would be aware what their service is then they could state that "all services on route TL2 are cancelled and passengers should use alternate services".

 

[ComUtoR]

See also "Lewisham" for Southeastern. I imagine it's a somewhat complicated junction.

It is being "fixed"

 

[PGAT]

It is being "fixed"

Well it’s supposed to be

 

[Horizon22]

It is being "fixed"

It's meant to have been "fixed" several times! That being said to really "fix" it, the whole layout in the area needs demolishing and starting over, but that is for another thread...

 

[NorthKent1989]

It's meant to have been "fixed" several times! That being said to really "fix" it, the whole layout in the area needs demolishing and starting over, but that is for another thread...

Sadly the station is boxed in by the poorly placed skyscrapers next to the station…

 

[SE%Traveller]

Lol I think the 'Fix' in this case is to redo the timetable so that (outside of peaks anyway) only the Victoria trains cross

 

[johncrossley]

Why are there so few cancellations today?

 

[Surreytraveller]

Why are there so few cancellations today?

The weather's getting colder. Plus the Saturday timetable is now reduced to a level similar to weekdays, rather than trying to run the pre-covid timetable on Saturdays as was happening

 

[Bikeman78]

Dad got bowled out at Crawley this evening. Got off the Bognor train to get on the 18:27 Thameslink to Littlehaven. It was cancelled shown on time until 18:24 when it was terminated at Three Bridges apparently owing to lack of forward driver. So much for check before you travel (he did check before he bailed off the Bognor train)! There is no way to mitigate against this level of dimwittery. Needless to say the next Bognor didn't stop additionally at Ifield or Littlehaven so he took that to Horsham and took the bus back to Littlehaven. He's in his late 70s and didn't fancy a 20 minute walk with luggage.

 

[arb]

The disruption between Ely and King's Lynn is extended again: it now continues until the end of Tuesday 4th October - see https://www.greatnorthernrail.com/t...747030000#INCFBD2208DA3D84B43A4935A735FD06ED1

This seems a strangely specific middle-of-the-week date for something like this to end - perhaps that means they have more confidence in this date than the previously announced end dates?

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

The disruption between Ely and King's Lynn is extended again: it now continues until the end of Tuesday 4th October - see https://www.greatnorthernrail.com/t...747030000#INCFBD2208DA3D84B43A4935A735FD06ED1

This seems a strangely specific middle-of-the-week date for something like this to end - perhaps that means they have more confidence in this date than the previously announced end dates?

So i see they are actually canning the service from 2030 every night this week

Great Northern will continue to run an amended train timetable between London Kings Cross and Ely and Kings Lynn until the end of service, Tuesday 4 October. A normal service is expected to resume from Wednesday 5 October, but we will keep you updated if this changes.

To allow Network Rail to carry out additional work on the line there will also be evening engineering works between Monday 26 and Friday 30 September, and also on Monday 3 and Tuesday 4 October. Buses will replace trains from around 20:30 on these dates.

they clearly still have plenty of work to do but its largely drop ballast tamp track which is reasonably definable in terms of time forecast and suspect that it will be done by next weekend but todays ultra cautious railway doesn't like to be overly committed these days so give yourself a few days in hand from this wekend just in case.

Interesting that they say normal service will be resumed on 5th October or are GN not being called out by ASLEF?

 

[Peregrine 4903]

So i see they are actually canning the service from 2030 every night this week


they clearly still have plenty of work to do but its largely drop ballast tamp track which is reasonably definable in terms of time forecast and suspect that it will be done by next weekend but todays ultra cautious railway doesn't like to be overly committed these days so give yourself a few days in hand from this wekend just in case.

Interesting that they say normal service will be resumed on 5th October or are GN not being called out by ASLEF?

Aslef aren't striking against GTR.

 

[paul1609]

Dad got bowled out at Crawley this evening. Got off the Bognor train to get on the 18:27 Thameslink to Littlehaven. It was cancelled shown on time until 18:24 when it was terminated at Three Bridges apparently owing to lack of forward driver. So much for check before you travel (he did check before he bailed off the Bognor train)! There is no way to mitigate against this level of dimwittery. Needless to say the next Bognor didn't stop additionally at Ifield or Littlehaven so he took that to Horsham and took the bus back to Littlehaven. He's in his late 70s and didn't fancy a 20 minute walk with luggage.

The Services to Southampton Central/ Bognor Regis cant additionally call at Ifield or Littlehaven without missing their path along the coastway. The xx. 55 Littlehampton to Portsmouth stopping train litterally waits at a signal just outside Ford to let the Southampton Portion go in front.
The Littlehampton train calls at every station to Bedhampton along the coast and is the only train to call every hour at the minor stations. If the ex horsham train is put behind the stopper it no longer has enough time to make it to Southampton and has to be turned at Fareham or diverted to Fratton to turnback there. The subsequent departure is then cancelled from Southampton which is a busy departure as far as Chichester.
Its a question of minimising disruption for the maximum number of people Im afraid.

 

[Magdalen Road]

So i see they are actually canning the service from 2030 every night this week


they clearly still have plenty of work to do but its largely drop ballast tamp track which is reasonably definable in terms of time forecast and suspect that it will be done by next weekend but todays ultra cautious railway doesn't like to be overly committed these days so give yourself a few days in hand from this wekend just in case.

Interesting that they say normal service will be resumed on 5th October or are GN not being called out by ASLEF?

I won't believe it until there's a direct service from KLN to KGX from kick off and I'm actually on the train!

 

[Surreytraveller]

The Services to Southampton Central/ Bognor Regis cant additionally call at Ifield or Littlehaven without missing their path along the coastway. The xx. 55 Littlehampton to Portsmouth stopping train litterally waits at a signal just outside Ford to let the Southampton Portion go in front.
The Littlehampton train calls at every station to Bedhampton along the coast and is the only train to call every hour at the minor stations. If the ex horsham train is put behind the stopper it no longer has enough time to make it to Southampton and has to be turned at Fareham or diverted to Fratton to turnback there. The subsequent departure is then cancelled from Southampton which is a busy departure as far as Chichester.
Its a question of minimising disruption for the maximum number of people Im afraid.

And if it goes behind the stopper from Barnham, it then delays the following Southampton train which comes from Brighton while it does the shunt at Fareham. So it'll quite often get put behind that as well! There's also the danger of the Brighton to Southampton getting stuck behind the stopper from Portsmouth to Southampton if the delays are allowed to happen

 

[BRX]

I've been on several Thameslink trains recently where all 3 toilets have been out of order. Most recently on the BML and on the sutton loop. Not really good enough. It feels like this is becoming more common... or am I imagining this?

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

I've been on several Thameslink trains recently where all 3 toilets have been out of order. Most recently on the BML and on the sutton loop. Not really good enough. It feels like this is becoming more common... or am I imagining this?

Never had all oou but since the disputes started at the margins standards are slipping or is that DfT telling operators to cull agency staff perhaps

 

[Minstral25]

I've been on several Thameslink trains recently where all 3 toilets have been out of order. Most recently on the BML and on the sutton loop. Not really good enough. It feels like this is becoming more common... or am I imagining this?

Yes - noticed 1 or more OOS on every Thameslink train I have been on recently. On 8 cars also seem to get some interesting artwork too!

 

[WizCastro197]

Yes - noticed 1 or more OOS on every Thameslink train I have been on recently. On 8 cars also seem to get some interesting artwork too!

Yes I went on Thameslink just a short journey from Merstham to Earlswood only a couple pounds on Friday and found 2 toilets to be out of order. I am not sure how you tackle the issue of ASB (anti social Behaviour) in toilets assuming this is the reason. I think it was a 12 car?


18:53 Merstham to Earlswood I think.

 

[paul1609]

And if it goes behind the stopper from Barnham, it then delays the following Southampton train which comes from Brighton while it does the shunt at Fareham. So it'll quite often get put behind that as well! There's also the danger of the Brighton to Southampton getting stuck behind the stopper from Portsmouth to Southampton if the delays are allowed to happen

Indeed I dont think people realise that even with the huge cuts made by GTR just how busy the West Coastway is. Arundel Junction to Barnham off peak is 8 tph in each direction with 3 flat junctions over 4 miles. Then its the same again between Havant and Farlington Junctions.

 

[Bikeman78]

The Services to Southampton Central/ Bognor Regis cant additionally call at Ifield or Littlehaven without missing their path along the coastway. The xx. 55 Littlehampton to Portsmouth stopping train litterally waits at a signal just outside Ford to let the Southampton Portion go in front.
The Littlehampton train calls at every station to Bedhampton along the coast and is the only train to call every hour at the minor stations. If the ex horsham train is put behind the stopper it no longer has enough time to make it to Southampton and has to be turned at Fareham or diverted to Fratton to turnback there. The subsequent departure is then cancelled from Southampton which is a busy departure as far as Chichester.
Its a question of minimising disruption for the maximum number of people Im afraid.

Seems to me that the timetable needs to be more robust, especially with fewer trains running. Anyway, as I've said before sometimes the Southern trains do stop there there is no way that the public can predict what the controller of the day will do. The real question is why was the train cancelled without warning? Did the driver go sick at booking on time?

 

[Magdalen Road]

Today's Great Northern Fenline service is back to being appalling. First London train cancelled due to overrunning engineering works, third train cancelled due to a fault. Waiting for the second train (an hour later than the first), wondering how busy this will get.
Is there any obligation to provide taxis to the next station where there is a service?
FWIW I tried to book a taxi myself and none available. It's frustrating to get up at 4.30am, and be an hour late for work!

 

[Urban Gateline]

Today's Great Northern Fenline service is back to being appalling. First London train cancelled due to overrunning engineering works, third train cancelled due to a fault. Waiting for the second train (an hour later than the first), wondering how busy this will get.
Is there any obligation to provide taxis to the next station where there is a service?
FWIW I tried to book a taxi myself and none available. It's frustrating to get up at 4.30am, and be an hour late for work!

It depends how long the delay is, when I worked at TL/GN stations we were told only delays over 60mins we could order a taxi for passengers, so if it is an hourly service at the same time past each hour you'd have had to wait for the next one and claim delay repay unfortunately.

 

[Magdalen Road]

It's a Greater Anglia station so not their problem. The next train is 57 minutes later. That wasn't mentioned, just wait for the next one.
But if course the next one was 6 minutes late into Kings Cross. Delay repay comes nowhere near my hourly rate.
Luckily I've been able to do some paperwork on the train back to make the time up today - unusual.

 

[Urban Gateline]

It's a Greater Anglia station so not their problem. The next train is 57 minutes later. That wasn't mentioned, just wait for the next one.
But if course the next one was 6 minutes late into Kings Cross. Delay repay comes nowhere near my hourly rate.
Luckily I've been able to do some paperwork on the train back to make the time up today - unusual.

I do feel for you with that long commute and the unreliability, much worse than my Peterborough-Horsham line commute which I thought was bad enough!

Regarding station operators, whoever manages the station still has a duty to look after passengers of other train operating companies serving their station, so they can still organise onward transport if needed. I certainly did in a past London Midland role where the station was served by several TOC's, we ordered Taxis for Southern/Avanti/Caledonian Sleeper passengers during disruption, just needs a bit of liaising with their respective control centres!