Western Greyhound Fire and subsequent WG general discussion.

[Busaholic]

Rumour is that it is cuts, with a load more deposited with the Traffic Commissioner as well asking for short notice cancellations because they can't resource the extra services they just recently registered. Hearing that the ones above include abandoning Fowey to First Kernow and chucking in evening and Sunday registrations, and abandoning the road to Liskeard.

Really is looking like First Kernow have pretty much won the battle bar the shouting now.

Can you substantiate any of that beyond rumours? The Fowey service is not a cancellation, only a variation. Bodmin to Liskeard is the only cancellation, and it could be that Citybus will seek to fill that gap. The new owners of WG wouldn't be chucking in the towel at this stage unless for force majeur. First may have Cornwall Council in their pocket, and their pockets are obviously deeper than WG's, but there are other players with much better recent track records (and share prices!) lurking and they may strike just as First is (once again) congratulating themselves on re-establishing a complacent monopoly.

 

[Goldfish62]

Can you substantiate any of that beyond rumours? The Fowey service is not a cancellation, only a variation. Bodmin to Liskeard is the only cancellation, and it could be that Citybus will seek to fill that gap. The new owners of WG wouldn't be chucking in the towel at this stage unless for force majeur. First may have Cornwall Council in their pocket, and their pockets are obviously deeper than WG's, but there are other players with much better recent track records (and share prices!) lurking and they may strike just as First is (once again) congratulating themselves on re-establishing a complacent monopoly.

No idea whether any of this is true, but I for one will be relieved if it is. Cornwall can't afford this sort of wasteful competition. Not sure it can afford two major operators, actually.

 

[richw]

Can you substantiate any of that beyond rumours? The Fowey service is not a cancellation, only a variation. Bodmin to Liskeard is the only cancellation.

Its only a timetable variation at that, not even a route variation.

I was in Bodmin yesterday amongst other places on my Ride Cornwall trip.

I saw a Bodmin/Liskeard service pass through Bodmin town centre, one in each direction. The Liskeard bound bus had 1 passenger on board, the Newquay bound bus arrived in Bodmin with 2 passengers.

On each competing route First had the significant passenger share.

On the Newquay to St Austell bus, there was myself on my Ride Cornwall and 2 old blokes using bus passes, yet the First bus from Newquay had decent numbers when it arrived in St Austell.
The 87 was full and standing I was on, yet the 587 I could count 5 passengers on board.
This is despite First being more expensive than Western Greyhound, make what you want of that.

 

[Robertj21a]

Rumour is that it is cuts, with a load more deposited with the Traffic Commissioner as well asking for short notice cancellations because they can't resource the extra services they just recently registered. Hearing that the ones above include abandoning Fowey to First Kernow and chucking in evening and Sunday registrations, and abandoning the road to Liskeard.

Really is looking like First Kernow have pretty much won the battle bar the shouting now.

Reports that there may be some WG problems rather soon.

 

[South Westerly]

Can you substantiate any of that beyond rumours? The Fowey service is not a cancellation, only a variation. Bodmin to Liskeard is the only cancellation, and it could be that Citybus will seek to fill that gap. The new owners of WG wouldn't be chucking in the towel at this stage unless for force majeur. First may have Cornwall Council in their pocket, and their pockets are obviously deeper than WG's, but there are other players with much better recent track records (and share prices!) lurking and they may strike just as First is (once again) congratulating themselves on re-establishing a complacent monopoly.

First's efforts over the last year or so are hardly complacent. The whole point is that Cornwall can't sustain two operators competing commercially. No other big operators is going to join the fray.
yes it can be substantiated. Tenders are out from Cornwall Council for services already deregistered. TC has short notice registration requests. Public Inquiry scheduled for 26 and 27 of this month is a combined Velvet and WG one.

 

[Robertj21a]

First's efforts over the last year or so are hardly complacent. The whole point is that Cornwall can't sustain two operators competing commercially. No other big operators is going to join the fray.
yes it can be substantiated. Tenders are out from Cornwall Council for services already deregistered. TC has short notice registration requests. Public Inquiry scheduled for 26 and 27 of this month is a combined Velvet and WG one.

I fear that there is some more news very soon.

 

[fgwrich]

I fear that there is some more news very soon.

First's efforts over the last year or so are hardly complacent. The whole point is that Cornwall can't sustain two operators competing commercially. No other big operators is going to join the fray.
yes it can be substantiated. Tenders are out from Cornwall Council for services already deregistered. TC has short notice registration requests. Public Inquiry scheduled for 26 and 27 of this month is a combined Velvet and WG one.

OUCH. Now that does sound like it's going to be a big one. With increased competition from a revitalised First Kernow, I really do wonder how sustainable WG really is, surely it's soon time to put down the slowly dying dog? The heavy investment of the bringing in of ex London Cadets and MPDs doesn't appear to have solved a lot of their issues, and from observations across the net Greyhounds services still don't seem to be attracting the custom that it desperately needs - as you say Cornwall doesn't seem able sustain two operators competing commercially and with First implementing a lot of it's improvements, think that First will come out the dominant operator.

I wonder if we'll truly find out what happened with Velvet too. Shame they were just effectively taken away, they were rather good in Hampshire at one time. Also, another issue for the owners whose past hasn't exactly been too great either!

 

[plymothian]

Plymothian Transit believes WG have ceased trading from midnight this morning.

 

[Robertj21a]

Plymothian Transit believes WG have ceased trading from midnight this morning.

That is what I had understood.

 

[MCR247]

Pirate FM has been told Western Greyhound services have been suspended today.
It means that buses are not running on Friday morning, apart from school services.
First Kernow says it will accept tickets and passes from Western Greyhound routes on its own routes.
Nobody from Western Greyhound was answering their phone on Tuesday morning and no announcement has been posted on the company's official Facebook page.
A spokesman from First Kernow said: "Due to the circumstances at Western Grayhound, First Kernow are accepting all tickets/passes issues by Western Greyhound."
Cornwall Council says it is aware of "operational difficulties" at the recently sold firm.
Drivers who have turned up to work say they are not able to get in.

http://www.piratefm.co.uk/news/latest-news/1555431/breaking-western-greyhound-services-suspended/

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

http://www.piratefm.co.uk/news/latest-news/1555431/breaking-western-greyhound-services-suspended/

And on BBC website. Drivers received redundancy notices.

Sad end but it's been coming for a while. I guess the hope is having won the war, First can now develop Kernow into a reasonable operation with regular investment. Like others have said, Cornwall can't sustain two operators. Alex C has done a good job there in the last year or so; with the West Cornwall care deals just announced, hope it points to a more settled situation.

Lastly, hope the employees of WGL get sorted soon (as do the travelling public esp where alternatives don't currently exist)

 

[Rapidash]

I wonder if Stagecoach might make a push that way? The driver training school at Exeter has been really busy in recent months, and there's probably some spare stock around for a trial of some kind.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I wonder if Stagecoach might make a push that way? The driver training school at Exeter has been really busy in recent months, and there's probably some spare stock around for a trial of some kind.

If they wanted to, they could've bought WG three months ago (or before).

First to take on most of Truro, Newquay and Snozzell work with Summercourt (Travel Cornwall) also taking on work is my prediction. Biggest question is who will take on the Wadebridge area work? Stagecoach could (as could PCB or FK) and merely take on the current drivers etc

 

[winston270twm]

If they wanted to, they could've bought WG three months ago (or before).

First to take on most of Truro, Newquay and Snozzell work with Summercourt (Travel Cornwall) also taking on work is my prediction. Biggest question is who will take on the Wadebridge area work? Stagecoach could (as could PCB or FK) and merely take on the current drivers etc

Maybe First might now make an offer to buy WG's Summercourt depot from the administrators? Sounds like they're going to need more garage space.

 

[matt_splat]

my money could be on the following happening

Plymouth City Bus extending a service to make Bodmin - Plymouth every 2 hours? might not work with the trips from Looe linking into the Plymouth run tho.

First too mop up quite a bit of work with some of the independents also scoping bits up.

Stagecoach taking the bits from Bude to Wadebridge

but we shall see feel sorry for those who are In north Cornwall who are with out any busses today.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Maybe First might now make an offer to buy WG's Summercourt depot from the administrators? Sounds like they're going to need more garage space.

I don't know about that. Summercourt is both centrally located yet in the middle of nowhere. The St. Austell site might be of more interest given their recent reappearance in that area.

Lots of operational questions though. Who will or can draft resources into the area (and which work might be people get)? Wonder if FK will take on management of Newquay bus station and the travel shop (if only for the summer)?

This is gonna be the thread to watch over the next few days/months.

 

[richw]

The owner has released a statement giving the reason for closure. It's on Falmouth packet website. I can't link from my phone.
Basically their insurance expired and they couldn't finance the renewal.

 

[winston270twm]

The owner has released a statement giving the reason for closure. It's on Falmouth packet website. I can't link from my phone.
Basically their insurance expired and they couldn't finance the renewal.

It's a shame for all the staff that have stuck by WG & the new owners.

 

[bodminnorth]

It turns out they are also facing a Traffic Commissioners Enquiry.

A shame- though I'm sure the previous owners won't be complaining much- they caused a lot of this mess I imagine and walked away with a wodge.

http://www.cornishguardian.co.uk/We...c-Commission/story-26167184-detail/story.html

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

It turns out they are also facing a Traffic Commissioners Enquiry.

A shame- though I'm sure the previous owners won't be complaining much- they caused a lot of this mess I imagine and walked away with a wodge.

http://www.cornishguardian.co.uk/We...c-Commission/story-26167184-detail/story.html

One wonders if they walked off with much? Perhaps happy not to be liable for things!

Interesting about insurance. Leven Valley in Teesside are going after a trebling of their insurance costs.

 

[overthewater]

The owner has released a statement giving the reason for closure. It's on Falmouth packet website. I can't link from my phone.
Basically their insurance expired and they couldn't finance the renewal.

http://www.falmouthpacket.co.uk/news/11854272.Jobs_at_risk_as_Western_Greyhound_goes_under/

Jobs are under threat after bus company Western Greyhound ceased trading today.

The company carries millions of passengers a year in Cornwall and Devon, with 65 buses and 133 employees from its freehold Summercourt depot.

The company is only operating school routes today.

A Cornwall Council spokesman said: "Cornwall Council is aware of the sudden closure of Western Greyhound bus company and is working hard with the industry in attempting to secure alternative services as quickly as possible.

"We will keep the public up to date through our website www.cornwall.gov.uk/buses, and the press and media, but it is unfortunately inevitable that there will be disruption over the next few days.

"One school contract is affected and alternative provision has been put in place."

Staff were informed this morning, with many handed letters from Michael Bishop, an entrepreneur from within the bus and coach industry who stepped in to buy Western Greyhound last December, when they turned up for work.

This read: "It is with sincere and very deep regret that I inform you that with effect from the morning of Friday, 13 March 2015, Westerr Greyhound Ltd is ceasing to trade.

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"My genuine pnority is to look after all of our valued staff. You have been such an amazing team and we have genuinely appreciated everything you have done for Western Greyhound Ltd.

"A security company has been appointed by us to protect the company assets because our focus is to pay all outstanding monies to each member of staff as soon as possible.

"Additionally, we are in immediate discussions with other bus operators to try and secure as many Jobs as possible and we will write/e-mail you with details of this.

"I think it is Important that you understand why this has happened because I believe in openness, honesty and transparency."

He said one challenge that has stood in the company's way, fleet insurance for the company, with the finance company refusing to lend the money to the business and as a result the insurers wanting an upfront payment for the insurance.

Adding: "Although we have been working very hard to stabilise the company, the company is not in a position to pay this upfront payment In the tight timescale set.

"I have tried my very best to save the company and I know you have all put everything into this and I would like to thank you for everything you have done. Please be assured that am aware that this is a very difficult situation and I would like to thank you for everything you have done.

"Please be asured that I am aware this this is a very difficult situation and I sincerly sympathise with each of you."



Following the cessation of Western Greyhound services, First Kernow this morning confirmed that it will accept all Western Greyhound tickets and passes on all its services.

Managing Director of First Kernow, Alex Carter, said: "We don't want to see bus users left out of pocket. We'll be accepting all Western Greyhound tickets on our bus services over the next few weeks. In the meantime, we are working with our Cornwall Council partners to provide replacement services as soon as possible."

First Kernow operate the following services which run on the same routes or routes close to Western Greyhound services:

Newquay and Truro via Indian Queens and Trispen (90/91/92)

Newquay and Truro via Perranporth (87)

Newquay and St Austell (21)

Fowey, Par and St Austell (24)

Mevagissey and St Austell (24)

Bodmin and St Austell (27)

Truro and St Austell (27)

 

[robertclark125]

To be fair to the person who posted above regards the Summercourt premises, they are a ready made depot, and First could use it as an interim measure, until they can get a location much nearer Newquay itself. Obviously, there may be a few planning hurdles to overcome, but I would agree with the poster regards the Summercourt premises.

 

[fgwrich]

You do have to wonder though why the insurance rises were not somewhat foreseen - like replacing a majority Vario / Solo fleet with 10 year old Wrightbus DAF Cadets. Let alone what the Traffic Commissioner would have revealed.

Strange that last night I said I could foresee WG not going on for much longer, by the morning the dog is dead. I'm sorry for the drivers though, especially the new ones, but at least there's First Kernow in the area who rather now will be after drivers again. But as TheGrandWazoo say's, this will be the thread to watch to see what happens in the area over the next few months and what changes and I'm afraid to say - improvements - will be brought in as a result of the disappearance of Greyhound. Perhaps it'll start with some of the thinning out of the 10? Truro - Newquay routes.

 

[DaveHarries]

Just tried the WGL website but that has gone.

Dave

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

To be fair to the person who posted above regards the Summercourt premises, they are a ready made depot, and First could use it as an interim measure, until they can get a location much nearer Newquay itself. Obviously, there may be a few planning hurdles to overcome, but I would agree with the poster regards the Summercourt premises.

It may be ready made but so is Pollards Mill which is WG's other workshop just outside St Austell. That would almost take us back to the days of Truro and St Austell depots and just an outbase at Newquay.

As I say, this thread is the place to watch. For AC, probably one down, one to go?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

You do have to wonder though why the insurance rises were not somewhat foreseen - like replacing a majority Vario / Solo fleet with 10 year old Wrightbus DAF Cadets. Let alone what the Traffic Commissioner would have revealed.

Strange that last night I said I could foresee WG not going on for much longer, by the morning the dog is dead. I'm sorry for the drivers though, especially the new ones, but at least there's First Kernow in the area who rather now will be after drivers again. But as TheGrandWazoo say's, this will be the thread to watch to see what happens in the area over the next few months and what changes and I'm afraid to say - improvements - will be brought in as a result of the disappearance of Greyhound. Perhaps it'll start with some of the thinning out of the 10? Truro - Newquay routes.

I'd imagine the WG services that parallel the FK ones will simply disappear (in fact, they have!) whilst the others will be a few tenders that CC kick out.
Wadebridge is the area where there is the greatest gap.

 

[matt_splat]

Don't forget that first have a Padstow outstation which could be used to run some north cornwall routes.

I wonder how many busses currently parked at mullar road could head south over the next week or so for first

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Don't forget that first have a Padstow outstation which could be used to run some north cornwall routes.

I wonder how many busses currently parked at mullar road could head south over the next week or so for first

Isn't that just a hardstanding for a few Truro college routes? No offices or cleaning and quite a way from Truro depot

I wonder how many of the MR vehicles are still in test? Some may be but most are probably past it.

 

[matt_splat]

I'm not sure how it use to work in padstow when first ran the routes before I know they were based on a estate just outside the town but cant remember what was in place for other things.

radio cornwall's phone in says the council are currently sorting tendered services its up to the operators to pick the commercial work they want to run and they expect info to be on the cornwall council website on Sunday

 

[DD12]

Friday the 13th indeed !
What a long and protracted saga - I haven't been watching this thread much since the new owners took over WGL, and this is a real shock to me.

Normally I would have visited North Cornwall by now for coastal walks, but the weather hasn't been good enough.
- my sympathies are particularly with the residents of the Padstow, Wadebridge, Port Isaac, and Boscastle areas who have been adversely affected, and the drivers -
There is (or was) a pleasant WGL regular driver of a rather high-strung/nervous disposition, who makes a big effort to stop somewhere safe (when dropping me off in the middle of nowhere).

Good Luck All !

 

[robertclark125]

The website just says "This website is not available until further notice".

Listened to the 13:00 bulletin on BBC Radio Cornwall, and one driver they spoke to had said they knew that something like this was going to come, and so it wasn't a great surprise. Another driver has said they may now seek employment outwith the bus industry. So, it's no means certain that all the staff will move to other bus companies.

Going back to the Summercourt depot, I wasn't aware that in First days, Newquay was an outstation. But in NBC days, did Western National have an full depot in Newquay, or was it just an outstation?

Whatever happens, it's the end of an era.