Western Greyhound Fire and subsequent WG general discussion.

[SWTH]

There are 4, the 5th I thought was ex NCT was Norfolk green.
I had the pleasure of you driving me on one of the ex NCT solos on one of my ride cornwall trips.

Distinctive features being the queen on 599, can only think of the nearside rear door on the ex sunset pair.

Ah, was that the trip where I picked you up at Truro Railway Station?

810 is the ex-Norfolk machine, you're spot on with the identification features on 591/2/99.

 

[MCR247]

4 ex-Nottingham Solos in fleet when I left.

921, 922, 923 & 933. 921 & 933 are repainted, 922/3 are in ex-NCT livery. They are all very poor machines, some of the worst Solos I've ever driven. NCT definitely had their money's worth out of them. 921 had an especially disconcerting issue with the steering where on long right-handers the steering would shake violently.

Having had one of those last year I can fully understand, and it's fairly obvious that NCT were happy to loan/flog them to WG as it get's them off their books. Certainly the roughest of the WG Solo bunch.

I was certainly glad to see the back of them! We've got some more that will be getting sold this year if anyones interested...?

 

[richw]

Ah, was that the trip where I picked you up at Truro Railway Station?

810 is the ex-Norfolk machine, you're spot on with the identification features on 591/2/99.

Yep,

Am I right in thinking the nearside rear door is for the chair lift?

 

[SWTH]

It is, but as far as I know the lifts are inoperative. Certainly when I tried to release the movable seats in 591 a year or two ago (a wheelchair-bound customer wished to travel) it very quickly became clear that the seats had never been moved and were stuck firmly in place. There was also no power to the lift controls.

 

[Busaholic]

Having had one of those last year I can fully understand, and it's fairly obvious that NCT were happy to loan/flog them to WG as it get's them off their books. Certainly the roughest of the WG Solo bunch.

As for one still carrying a Notts based VW Dealer? I thought Stagecoach was bad having London City Airport branding inside some of the ex London ALX200s we had around here for 6 months, but to leave it in an almost unmodified NCT with advertisements state for two years is hardly inspiring.

Bit like the First Kernow decker exiting Penwith College last Friday which I was behind for a couple of miles, plenty of time to read all about 'what's new for 2012 at the Lands End Experience' exclamation mark - theirs and mine.

 

[winston270twm]

The next buses heading to Western Greyhound from Ensign appear to be:

Cadets:
LF52TKC https://www.flickr.com/photos/gricerman/16239363792/
LF52TKD https://www.flickr.com/photos/gricerman/15934714769/

I'm surprised they haven't opted to covert the cadets to single door at least to boost seating capacity

Volvo/President:
W578DGU https://www.flickr.com/photos/gricerman/16071868639/

 

[swifty]

The next buses heading to Western Greyhound from Ensign appear to be:

Cadets:
LF52TKC https://www.flickr.com/photos/gricerman/16239363792/
LF52TKD https://www.flickr.com/photos/gricerman/15934714769/

I'm surprised they haven't opted to covert the cadets to single door at least to boost seating capacity/[/url]

They're already in service


A Wright Little Bus by Retrobus, on Flickr

Presumably they're on a tight budget, and tight turnaround, and the extra time and money on converting to single door is a problem for them?

 

[winston270twm]

They're already in service


A Wright Little Bus by Retrobus, on Flickr

Presumably they're on a tight budget, and tight turnaround, and the extra time and money on converting to single door is a problem for them?

Fair play Swifty, hadn't seen any reports

 

[Penwithian]

Bit like the First Kernow decker exiting Penwith College last Friday which I was behind for a couple of miles, plenty of time to read all about 'what's new for 2012 at the Lands End Experience' exclamation mark - theirs and mine.

That would be Dennis Trident 32879

 

[83G/84D]

Some recent additions to the Western Greyhound fleet seen at Newquay.

 

[fgwrich]

I can't say I'm very impressed with this bit of wording on the back of the repainted WrightBus Cadet LF52TKD. Use or Lose maybe, but when your going up against an upgraded and rejuvenated First Kernow, you'd better have some good tricks and plans up your sleeve and not advertising like this.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/29197902@N06/16077015380/in/photostream/

Apologies, I can't seem to get the link to work - Attached the link above.

Some recent additions to the Western Greyhound fleet seen at Newquay.

I would love to see a bright pink Plaxton president turn up! There is about 5-6 darts here from velvet and a solo that I've seen photos on Flickr or seen myself.
Plus the SB120s on the way from London.
Certainly an interesting fleet for the enthusiast point of variety, I'm sure there is more colour than with all the mix and match after the fire now!

Well, looks like that one happened then! So the WG Fleet now includes a bright Pink President and a Bright Green WG President.

 

[Goldfish62]

I can't say I'm very impressed with this bit of wording on the back of the repainted WrightBus Cadet LF52TKD. Use or Lose maybe, but when your going up against an upgraded and rejuvenated First Kernow, you'd better have some good tricks and plans up your sleeve and not advertising like this.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/29197902@N06/16077015380/in/photostream/

[URL="https://flic.kr/p/quEUym]https://www.flickr.com/photos/29197902@N06/16077015380[/url]
[url="https://flic.kr/p/quEUym]Use or Lose...[/url] by [url=https://www.flickr.com/people/29197902@N06/]Retrobus[/url], on Flickr

Apologies, I can't seem to get the link to work - Attached the link above.





Well, looks like that one happened then! So the WG Fleet now includes a bright Pink President and a Bright Green WG President.[/QUOTE]

"use us or lose us" -well it would help if they actually showed where they were going. WG seem to consider destination displays to be optional.

 

[SWTH]

That 'advert' is horrendous. Whoever authorised (and indeed, authored) it needs to be sent back to school.

 

[Goldfish62]

499ymk, y447nhk and wk04kuo have all been photographed on Flickr working in Southampton in the last week.

That Vario (WK04KUO) is a bus, not a coach, so definitely being used illegally.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Don't forget that any route can be operated for up to 14 days by non DDA vehicles though. They can get all 14 days in right away if they wish!
.

Where's that in the regulations? The only exemption I'm aware of is that non-compliant vehicles over 20 years old can be used on scheduled services for a maximum of 20 days per year - clearly aimed at heritage operations.

 

[Robertj21a]

That Vario (WK04KUO) is a bus, not a coach, so definitely being used illegally.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Where's that in the regulations? The only exemption I'm aware of is that non-compliant vehicles over 20 years old can be used on scheduled services for a maximum of 20 days per year - clearly aimed at heritage operations.

Correct. It's 20 years old and for up to 20 days a year. I'm not aware of anything re 14 days.

 

[SWTH]

That Vario (WK04KUO) is a bus, not a coach, so definitely being used illegally.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Where's that in the regulations? The only exemption I'm aware of is that non-compliant vehicles over 20 years old can be used on scheduled services for a maximum of 20 days per year - clearly aimed at heritage operations.

WK04 KUO (579) is specced as DP33F, no standing. WK03 BUS/576 however has standing capacity, though I haven't seen it about recently.

 

[richw]

WK04 KUO (579) is specced as DP33F, no standing. WK03 BUS/576 however has standing capacity, though I haven't seen it about recently.

Wk03bus is at ensign.

http://www.ensignbus.com/2003-marcedes-814-vario.html

As is WK05AOX which is coach spec


http://www.ensignbus.com/2005-marcedes-814-vario-coach.html

 

[83G/84D]

499ymk, y447nhk and wk04kuo have all been photographed on Flickr working in Southampton in the last week.

499 YMK is back, I saw it in Newquay on Tuesday.

 

[mikestone1952]

Western Greyhound registered replacement services on Velvet's routes from last Monday, but never actually ran them, instead passing to Xelabus.
;
It would seem that some WG vehicles had been drafted in to work the services prior to that date.

 

[317 forever]

The next buses heading to Western Greyhound from Ensign appear to be:

Cadets:
LF52TKC https://www.flickr.com/photos/gricerman/16239363792/
LF52TKD https://www.flickr.com/photos/gricerman/15934714769/

I'm surprised they haven't opted to covert the cadets to single door at least to boost seating capacity

Volvo/President:
W578DGU https://www.flickr.com/photos/gricerman/16071868639/

Ironically, Western Greyhound are buying vehicles from Go-Ahead (London) just weeks after selling their Liskeard operation and 9 Solos to Go-Ahead (Plymouth/ Go Cornwall Bus)!

 

[richw]

Ironically, Western Greyhound are buying vehicles from Go-Ahead (London) just weeks after selling their Liskeard operation and 9 Solos to Go-Ahead (Plymouth/ Go Cornwall Bus)!

They're not buying from go ahead, they're buying them from ensign.

They've sold fairly new high value vehicles and bought older low value vehicles. The only way of making money in Cornwall is low value buses.

 

[Busaholic]

To put us low value passengers in.

 

[richw]

To put us low value passengers in.

Not at all the reason.

Cornwall is a marginal market for profits, get the calculations wrong and your loss making. Older buses are much cheaper to run, depreciation, cost to buy etc being the main factors. Running older buses ropes in that margin, leaving more chance of a profit.

 

[Busaholic]

Not at all the reason.

Cornwall is a marginal market for profits, get the calculations wrong and your loss making. Older buses are much cheaper to run, depreciation, cost to buy etc being the main factors. Running older buses ropes in that margin, leaving more chance of a profit.

I do understand, really. Better an old bus than no bus. Just like to keep everyone on their toes.

 

[Robertj21a]

At least the stuff they're buying from Ensigns is DDA-compliant so there's no fresh horizon for legal constraints. They can carry on running them as long as they want.

 

[Goldfish62]

Not at all the reason.

Cornwall is a marginal market for profits, get the calculations wrong and your loss making. Older buses are much cheaper to run, depreciation, cost to buy etc being the main factors. Running older buses ropes in that margin, leaving more chance of a profit.

Not always completely the case. First uses straight line depreciation so the annual charge for a bus is the same as if it's brand new or several years old. Only once it's fully written down dies the saving kick in.

Regarding running costs, stear clear of anything with a Euro 3 engine!

 

[richw]

Not always completely the case. First uses straight line depreciation so the annual charge for a bus is the same as if it's brand new or several years old. Only once it's fully written down dies the saving kick in.

Regarding running costs, stear clear of anything with a Euro 3 engine!

Most First stuff in Cornwall other than the buses specially for the 14/18/U1/U2 are pretty much at the bottom of the depreciation line.

Looking at the age of the new western greyhound stuff, most of it is towards the bottom end of the line as well, the majority being 12-13 years old. The Volvo presidents being 15 years.

 

[Goldfish62]

Most First stuff in Cornwall other than the buses specially for the 14/18/U1/U2 are pretty much at the bottom of the depreciation line.

Looking at the age of the new western greyhound stuff, most of it is towards the bottom end of the line as well, the majority being 12-13 years old. The Volvo presidents being 15 years.

Yes, you're right, I was just pointing out that just because something is not new it doesn't necessarily mean it's cheaper.

Old kit isn't always the answer. It's been shown in other parts of the country that the revenue generated by the introduction of new buses on certain corridors, together with heavy promotion, has outweighed the increased costs. Add into the mix that Euro VI buses are proving cheaper to operate than was predicted, and certainly cheaper than both Euro IV and Euro V then the balance starts to tip in favour of new v old heaps.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Yes, you're right, I was just pointing out that just because something is not new it doesn't necessarily mean it's cheaper.

Old kit isn't always the answer. It's been shown in other parts of the country that the revenue generated by the introduction of new buses on certain corridors, together with heavy promotion, has outweighed the increased costs. Add into the mix that Euro VI buses are proving cheaper to operate than was predicted, and certainly cheaper than both Euro IV and Euro V then the balance starts to tip in favour of new v old heaps.

I guess its a balance with the benefit of no depreciation vs. the fuel and maintenance of older kit.

Whilst you mention straight line depreciation, there are two things to consider as well. Moving mid life kit means the depreciation is lower (as invariably the purchase cost was lower).

Also, I think Stagecoach did quite a bit of fleet replacement by sending new kit to London and later to Manchester. Hence, fleets like C&G and UC received modern deckers. However, what I think happened was that Stagecoach Manchester soaked up the difference between NBV and actual value, so the NBV could be reassessed and the depreciation re-baselined.

That said, given where First are, even their powerhouse fleets are in need of investment so cascading is perhaps not an option for a few years yet

 

[Busaholic]

I guess its a balance with the benefit of no depreciation vs. the fuel and maintenance of older kit.



That said, given where First are, even their powerhouse fleets are in need of investment so cascading is perhaps not an option for a few years yet

No London fleet to cascade from anymore. Calls to Ensign?