Western Greyhound Fire and subsequent WG general discussion.

[Robertj21a]

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Right, so nothing much from First Group then.........
:roll:

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

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Right, so nothing much from First Group then.........
:roll:

Nothing much from anyone. First Swansea to Brizzle, Arriva 757, TB Red Arrow - more exception than the rule

Could be worse - Green Line 724 did have Plaxton Prestiges at one point!

I'd also mention that they did have coaches on the X9/X10 (Plaxton Profile, I think, new in 2005 - now in Scotland) but the twirly pass meant some real peak loadings so they replaced them with e400s (now working Plymouth P&R)

 

[mbonwick]

Scotland was specifically mentioned by Neil asking why is Stagecoach Express successful in Scotland yet not copied elsewhere. Megabus is a slightly different product but appreciate your point.

Apologies, I thought you were referring to the post where the whole of the UK was mentioned.

I guess Scotland is a bit different due to the larger distances between population centres in some cases, and the larger commuter belts in others.

 

[DD12]

A summary of the current situation with Western Greyhound has appeared on the latest edition of http://www.route-one.net

(You may have to click on "finance" to get to it)

 

[richw]

A summary of the current situation with Western Greyhound has appeared on the latest edition of http://www.route-one.net

(You may have to click on "finance" to get to it)

The article:

Western Greyhound – six years ago one of the country’s leading and multi award-winning independent operators – has been formally put up for sale.

Staff and unions have been given 100 days’ notice that if a buyer for the business is not found, then it will be closed.

A proposed sale of the business around 18 months ago to French group RATP was not progressed. It is understood that the high amount of fleet replacement to meet the January 2015 deadline for full DDA compliance by buses under 7.5-tonnes was the stumbling block. Western Greyhound runs 21 Mercedes-Benz Varios.

The decision comes after a period of poor operation over the summer, caused by severe staff shortages of drivers and fitters.

Since then drivers have continued to leave, mainly for rival First, and from 10 November Western Greyhound suspended 23 “lightly-used” evening and late-night journeys on six routes.

One of the largest operators in the South West, it runs a mixed fleet of 75 buses, from its wholly-owned main depot and modern workshops at Summercourt near Newquay and outstations at Wadebridge and Liskeard.

The problems were exacerbated by a major fire, identified as arson, in May 2013 that destroyed almost half the fleet. A second arson attack at an outstation in January, which destroyed three buses, led to a re-evaluation of parking arrangements due to insurance issues. Although three men have been arrested in connection with the arson attacks, no charges have been brought.

The firm’s annual accounts for the year ending 30 September show a £500,000 pre-tax loss on a £9.7m turnover.

Western Greyhound, which is owned 50-50 by Mark Howarth and Robin Orbell, has not made any official comment.

 

[robertclark125]

100 days may not seem long, but it does give time. It would've been an interesting purchase for RATP, but, it would've then had to acquire in stock to replace the Varios. If Stagecoach, as an example, had bought the business, it could've replaced those vehicles no bother, and with vehicles to its own spec.

Now that this magazine report has come out, what First does next will be anticipated. What other firms, such as Cornwall Busways, do as well will also be anticipated. Going in for the kill when your rival is wounded and struggling is a tactic in the bus industry, and has often succeeded. Places like Greenock (Mcgills v Harte), Brighton (BHBCC v Big Lemon), and Cardiff (Bws Caerdydd v Cardiff Bluebird) are examples.

North Cornwall could become very interesting for a wee while, in a wee while.

 

[South Westerly]

100 days may not seem long, but it does give time. It would've been an interesting purchase for RATP, but, it would've then had to acquire in stock to replace the Varios. If Stagecoach, as an example, had bought the business, it could've replaced those vehicles no bother, and with vehicles to its own spec.

Now that this magazine report has come out, what First does next will be anticipated. What other firms, such as Cornwall Busways, do as well will also be anticipated. Going in for the kill when your rival is wounded and struggling is a tactic in the bus industry, and has often succeeded. Places like Greenock (Mcgills v Harte), Brighton (BHBCC v Big Lemon), and Cardiff (Bws Caerdydd v Cardiff Bluebird) are examples.

North Cornwall could become very interesting for a wee while, in a wee while.

We know what First is doing next. Their registrations for 5 January are already published in Notices and Proceedings.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Now that this magazine report has come out, what First does next will be anticipated. What other firms, such as Cornwall Busways, do as well will also be anticipated. Going in for the kill when your rival is wounded and struggling is a tactic in the bus industry, and has often succeeded. Places like Greenock (Mcgills v Harte), Brighton (BHBCC v Big Lemon), and Cardiff (Bws Caerdydd v Cardiff Bluebird) are examples.

North Cornwall could become very interesting for a wee while, in a wee while.

That wasn't exactly the same thing. Cardiff Bus sought to absolutely hammer them from the beginning (and 2Travel as well)

 

[sor]

I cant compare to Exeter, but from my house (1/4 mile from Redruth station) to Tiverton Parkway it is about an hour quicker by car than train.
A fast express bus may be favourable if it was picking up from junctions of A30 and not going into all of the towns if the price was right.

During the Dawlish disruption, the direct Bodmin Parkway/Tiverton Parkway coach took about 1h20m. The train would probably be close to 2 hours.

From where I live in mid Cornwall I can drive to Exeter by car in an hour or 2 hours from St. Austell by train, about 1h40m from Bodmin Parkway

 

[Bletchleyite]

We know what First is doing next. Their registrations for 5 January are already published in Notices and Proceedings.

In all seriousness, why would anyone buy them? All they need to do is register competing services on their key routes by bringing vehicles and drivers in from other parts of the country and spreading the load using overtime, then when they eventually collapse buy any of the vehicles that are worth having, register more routes and offer jobs to their now-unemployed drivers.

Neil

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

In all seriousness, why would anyone buy them? All they need to do is register competing services on their key routes by bringing vehicles and drivers in from other parts of the country and spreading the load using overtime, then when they eventually collapse buy any of the vehicles that are worth having, register more routes and offer jobs to their now-unemployed drivers.

Neil

Well, most of it has already happened (I think) on the best routes

521 - First 21 already started
524/525 - First 24 starts Jan 2015
529 - First 27 starts Jan 2015 (and Cornwall Busways are already there)
576 - First 76 already there (and rumoured to increase in Jan 2015)
587 - First 87 already started (with Hopleys operating St Agnes to Truro)
594 - First 94 starts in Jan 2015 - more Perranporth to Truro?

I think that leaves the following (and locals can confirm which are the most lucrative and any of the details that I've got wrong)

510 - one for Stagecoach?
520/2/7 - don't know how lucrative they might be
550/1 (which are probably not commercially viable)
555/6 (might be attractive)
558?
572/3 - PCB might fancy?
586/597 - are these being partially covered

Not certain who'd want the Wadebridge routes (584, 594, 595)?

 

[matt_splat]

Well, most of it has already happened (I think) on the best routes

521 - First 21 already started
524/525 - First 24 starts Jan 2015
529 - First 27 starts Jan 2015 (and Cornwall Busways are already there)
576 - First 76 already there (and rumoured to increase in Jan 2015)
587 - First 87 already started (with Hopleys operating St Agnes to Truro)
594 - First 94 starts in Jan 2015 - more Perranporth to Truro?

I think that leaves the following (and locals can confirm which are the most lucrative and any of the details that I've got wrong)

510 - one for Stagecoach?
520/2/7 - don't know how lucrative they might be
550/1 (which are probably not commercially viable)
555/6 (might be attractive)
558?
572/3 - PCB might fancy?
586/597 - are these being partially covered

Not certain who'd want the Wadebridge routes (584, 594, 595)?

510 is a route for stagecoach I think this is seen in the X10 registration they already have done I think they could maybe run the 584 and 595 partly from bude and a outstation some where?

520 is a evening contract of the 27? maybe first would gain the contract

550/1 one of the independents

PCB or First on the 572 / 3

the 594 could be covered in a similar way first did a few summers ago when they ran a service which went Padstow, Wadebridge, St Columb and then into Truro every 90 mins I think first ran it if that happened it could be a handy way for getting busses from padstow of the 555 /556 routes back to Truro depot as well

 

[overthewater]

I have to say some of the comments made a draft

http://www.cornishguardian.co.uk/St...inks-Western/story-24559374-detail/story.html

A QUESTION mark surrounds the future of bus links across mid-Cornwall after Western Greyhound was put up for sale.

Staff and users were surprised when the company was put on the market by chief executive Mark Howarth last week.

It has refused to comment on the future of the firm if a buyer is not found, although a deadline of Friday passed without news of a sale.

Uncertainty surrounds the future of seven routes connecting St Austell to Truro, Newquay, Bodmin, and the clay country.

It is understood more than a dozen drivers had left the firm recently.

Drivers at St Austell bus station on Friday said they were "completely in the dark" over the situation.

One, who did wish to be named, said: "There are lots of rumours flying about to do with what he's [Howarth] doing, but no one really knows. Christmas is coming and we haven't had any guarantees we're still going to have jobs. Lots of people are going to (rival company) First.

"They've mortgages to pay and families to feed so you can't blame them. I have two days off next week and I'll probably look at doing the same."

A second driver said the loss of Western Greyhound buses would mark "a bad day for Cornwall", adding: "It'll mean the end of night buses because First doesn't run them."

In a statement Cornwall Council said the sale of the company was a matter for Western Greyhound's owner, but expected it to honour its council contracts.

The sale is being handled by London-based property consultant ES Group.

A listing on the company's website claims Western Greyhound's turnover last year was £7.9 million, and that it had recently been awarded "new four-year council contracts".

ES Group representative Roland Cramp said: "We're still working on it and an announcement will be made at an appropriate time and hopefully the press will have patience with that."

Western Greyhound's problems have come under the microscope in recent months following reports of chaotic services which have frequently seen buses either turn up late, or fail to arrive.

At the start of the year the firm's depot was subject to a suspected arson attack, which destroyed one bus and damaged others.

It was attacked by arsonists again in May, losing 37 buses in the blaze.

Mr Howarth has been unavailable for comment.

He was due to feature on BBC Radio Cornwall's lunchtime phone-in on Monday, but staff said they had been unable to contact him. The West Briton had also been unable to contact Mr Howarth at the time of going to press.

 

[317 forever]

This is a rather ill advised comment.

Cornwall surprisingly has had a number of new buses even in the last decade!
First have had a number of 05 and 56 plate Darts. The 55 plate Tridents around Devon were new for Falmouth to Newquay services.
Western Greyhound had brand new Solos in 2009 and 2011, and brand new Enviro E400s in 2008.
Truronian had a number of brand new buses in 2006.

I rode one of the E400s in 2009. Regrettably both were destroyed in the fire last year, as was a Solo I rode just last April.

Rotala Plc are also on the lookout for acquisitions. They've recently agreed revised banking facilities with up to £10 Million headroom for acquisitions.

They have plenty of MPD's & Solo's that could be cascaded from Diamond to somewhere like WG
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


That is exactly how it reads to me as well, register their interest only, not make an offer by the deadline.

This would be good use of spare Rotala stock. As Rotala have small operations on the west side of England (PrestonBus and Wessex Connect) Western Greyhound could be a good fit.

Well, most of it has already happened (I think) on the best routes

521 - First 21 already started
524/525 - First 24 starts Jan 2015
529 - First 27 starts Jan 2015 (and Cornwall Busways are already there)
576 - First 76 already there (and rumoured to increase in Jan 2015)
587 - First 87 already started (with Hopleys operating St Agnes to Truro)
594 - First 94 starts in Jan 2015 - more Perranporth to Truro?

I think that leaves the following (and locals can confirm which are the most lucrative and any of the details that I've got wrong)

510 - one for Stagecoach?
520/2/7 - don't know how lucrative they might be
550/1 (which are probably not commercially viable)
555/6 (might be attractive)
558?
572/3 - PCB might fancy?
586/597 - are these being partially covered

Not certain who'd want the Wadebridge routes (584, 594, 595)?

So by then, WG could have little in terms of routes to themselves anyway. In 2009 I rode from Bude to Truro via Wadebridge on just WG buses. I am not sure whether such an opportunity still exists, or will for long.

 

[Robertj21a]

This would be good use of spare Rotala stock. As Rotala have small operations on the west side of England (PrestonBus and Wessex Connect) Western Greyhound could be a good fit.


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Not really sure that a tiny operation near Bristol and an operation far up the country at Preston will have any significance just because both are on the western side of the country !. Their main operations are around the West Midlands, which is quite a bit closer than Preston (albeit still far away from Devon/Cornwall).

In any event, it's not going to Rotala.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

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Not really sure that a tiny operation near Bristol and an operation far up the country at Preston will have any significance just because both are on the western side of the country !. Their main operations are around the West Midlands, which is quite a bit closer than Preston (albeit still far away from Devon/Cornwall).

In any event, it's not going to Rotala.

I think Rotala have enough to concentrate on with the onslaught from First in Bristol as well as whatever comes of the Whittle situation in Kiddy.

I too struggle to see the synergies just because albeit they're in the West, Cornwall is pretty distant. To my mind, can't see anyone other than PCB. Only way of really cutting overheads. Other than that, outright closure.

 

[robertclark125]

Could Cornwall Busways maybe try and buy bits?

 

[winston270twm]

I think Rotala have enough to concentrate on with the onslaught from First in Bristol as well as whatever comes of the Whittle situation in Kiddy.

I too struggle to see the synergies just because albeit they're in the West, Cornwall is pretty distant. To my mind, can't see anyone other than PCB. Only way of really cutting overheads. Other than that, outright closure.

TGW,

Looks as though the Whittle's bus operation is being shutdown with the remaining services cancelled from 5th Jan. So looks as though Diamond will control the majority of services in Kidderminster as well as Redditch.

I wonder what plans Rotala have for Bristol & Bath area, they were offering £60k ish for the Wessex MD position that has secured the services of Simon Cursio. They've done well to appoint an ex First man from the area, especially as the operation doesn't currently seem big enough to be an attractive challenge. I just hope Rotala provide Simon with the resources to combat First and its not at the expense of Diamond.

 

[richw]

Could Cornwall Busways maybe try and buy bits?

The question was asked on Cornwall Busway's facebook page if they would take on more routes. Their answer was not at the current time as they want to establish what they have.

 

[robertclark125]

Which is probably the right decision, the more I think about it.

 

[Robertj21a]

Any confirmation that an announcement is due later today ?

 

[90sWereBetter]

The "Western Greyhound where's my bus" page on Facebook appears to have been deleted. I wonder what happened there? False allegations maybe?

 

[robertclark125]

The owner decided to end it, mainly due to the sale of the firm, and the 100 days notice. But also, due to some folk saying nasty things about WG staff, which were unjustified.

 

[richw]

Does anyone know if the Merc Varios are on specific routes or can turn up anywhere? I want to do a Ride Cornwall in the coming days using my 2014 annual leave up, and want to get a Vario in before their withdrawal 31/12/14

 

[83G/84D]

Does anyone know if the Merc Varios are on specific routes or can turn up anywhere? I want to do a Ride Cornwall in the coming days using my 2014 annual leave up, and want to get a Vario in before their withdrawal 31/12/14

Services around Newquay and north Cornwall (Liskeard / Wadebridge / Padstow) are usually Vario's. Not many around St Austell where bigger buses tend to be used. I think the service to Bodmin Parkway is mostly a Vario due to the low and narrow bridge leading up to the station.

Hope that helps and enjoy your day out.

 

[matt_splat]

the padstow services are normally darts now I think you will find a few still around liskgard? and the camelford services are normally mercs I think you will find one or two on the 594 as well

 

[richw]

Services around Newquay and north Cornwall (Liskeard / Wadebridge / Padstow) are usually Vario's. Not many around St Austell where bigger buses tend to be used. I think the service to Bodmin Parkway is mostly a Vario due to the low and narrow bridge leading up to the station.

Hope that helps and enjoy your day out.

Thanks. I may take the train to Bodmin Parkway and take one from there then.

 

[Temple Meads]

Last couple of WGL services I've seen at Bodmin Parkway have been Dart's, from my experiences, the services to Looe are one's best bet for Vario's.

 

[richw]

My 555 and 556 were both a Vario today (The same one)
I rode 3 WG services, the biggest delay was 4 minutes, all of the drivers were polite and friendly, and even helped elderly passengers on and off, and none breakdown.

If I believe everything I read on social media there was a 1 in a million chance of such an occurrence happening

And one of the drivers I had today mentioned that there is a buyer on the table but he was realistic by adding that it means nothing as no guarantee it will go through.

 

[winston270twm]

Last couple of WGL services I've seen at Bodmin Parkway have been Dart's, from my experiences, the services to Looe are one's best bet for Vario's.

When I stopped at Polperro last month the 572/573 were majority operated by Solo's, but some Vario's did appear as well. I only saw some workings