Western Greyhound Fire and subsequent WG general discussion.

[SWTH]

In some ways yes, but the 'wrong' buses were lost - nearly all the single deckers lost were DDA-compliant, whereas the bulk of the Varios escaped unharmed. The only immediate losses (i.e post 3/10/13) will be the loaned vehicles.

I wondered how long it would take for that notice to become public.

 

[richw]

I wondered how long it would take for that notice to become public.

Westcountry news had "obtained" a copy of the driver notice tonight on the 6o'clock news so it is now public.

 

[overthewater]

http://www.itv.com/news/westcountry/story/2013-09-18/bus-cuts-in-the-west-country/

 

[SWTH]

Westcountry news had "obtained" a copy of the driver notice tonight on the 6o'clock news so it is now public.

Yes, I know its now public. For obvious reasons I didn't post any details from it, here or elsewhere before the press found out. Quite surprised it took this long to hit the mainstream press, I wonder how they found out? The notice was issued to staff on the 14th of September.

Reading though the link to the ITV web page there is a statement saying 12 drivers are to be made redundant - to the best of my knowledge this is only speculation. We don't as yet know the extent of the revisions to services that are being altered on the 3rd of November, so until more information becomes public it would be unwise to speculate on the exact numbers involved.

Cornwall Council also seem to be blaming WGL for suggesting that the Penwith services could be cut, which is interesting.

In other news, Trident/ALX400 Y445 NHK (ex-17445) is the latest arrival. Some of the loaned Nottingham/Norfolk Green Solos may become permenant residents too, judging by the additional WGL-spec cab fittings (cash tray/quick change holder etc) that at least W604 NTO has gained in the last day or two.

 

[richw]

Some of the loaned Nottingham/Norfolk Green Solos may become permenant residents too, judging by the additional WGL-spec cab fittings (cash tray/quick change holder etc) that at least W604 NTO has gained in the last day or two.

At least they shouldn't need a repaint!

I wonder how they found out? The notice was issued to staff on the 14th of September.

I suspect a member of staff expecting redundancy provided it.

Cornwall Council also seem to be blaming WGL for suggesting that the Penwith services could be cut, which is interesting.

They are saying they did not cut all the subsidies for all of the services withdrawn.

 

[SWTH]

They don't need to. Cut enough and it makes the whole operation unviable.

I suspect similar as to how the notice got out. As for repaints, all seven Solos from both Norfolk Green and NCT are all in dire need of a coat of paint at the very least!

 

[83G/84D]

I saw Trident 17482 in service in Newquay yesterday in more or less "as arrived" condition. Still in dual door configuration with PD (Plumstead) depot codes & London legals!

At least the destination display was reprogrammed!

SWTH - Do you know if they are remaining as dual door or are they going to be converted to single door at a later date?

Will the centre doors be used? First sometimes use them on their Olympians but I think it just depends on the driver and quite a few passengers get confused by them apart from the ex London retirees now living down here.

I watched the news report on bus services on westcountry TV last night. Thought it was a balanced report with passengers views represented and council official Bert Biscoe given a chance to offer his side of the story. He put the blame firmly at the government cuts in public spending and sounded genuinely sympathetic towards the situation. I felt from listening to Mr Biscoe that the Council had no choice but to make these cuts to subsidies / spending.

Further talks are to take place with bus operators so hopefully cuts to services can be kept to a minimum but that might not be much comfort to Western Greyhound staff & passengers at Penzance.

 

[SWTH]

As far as I'm aware they will stay dual-door. As for using them, whenever I've driven the Tridents I've used them as intended, with passengers quickly getting used to the centre doors. They are a big advantage on the 547 where turnaround times at St Ives are very short.

As for the destination in 17482, its had the London-spec paper blinds removed and the glass that surrounds them had to be replaced - the cutout in the glass was completely the wrong shape to fit the LED blinds WGL use.

I don't think the full extent of the cuts is known yet, so until then I will reserve judgment on what Cllr. Biscoe said.

 

[winston270twm]

Does anyone have a list of which WG routes are fully commercial without receiving even part subsidy from Cornwall CC?

 

[TEW]

Western Greyhound have now posted a pretty comprehensive list of changes on their Facebook page:

The entire Penzance and Hayle operation (routes 501/4/7/8/9/12/13/15 will be withdrawn. We are unsure what cheaper partial replacements the County is proposing at this stage.
The last Sunday journey on Truro-St Austell 520 service on Sundays will be withdrawn but the 522 will additionally run on Sundays into Truro.
The 521 Sunday service between Newquay and St Austell will reduce from hourly to two-hourly (but 522 will partially compensate for that) and there will be some minor timetable changes. The hourly weekday service will be maintained and the service will now run to St Austell Station but will no longer run via The Co-op in St Austell. 521 will now operate via Treloggan and Hendra instead of St Columb Minor, whilst the 527 will run via St Columb Minor instead of Hendra and Treloggan.
A brand-new Sunday service will be introduced on the 522 St Austell – Nanpean – Grampound – Truro service and certain journeys will run to St Austell Station.
524/5/6 will be improved to run every half hour between Fowey and Mevagissey/Heligan via St Austell Station. This will partially replace First 27 which will no longer run to St Blazey or Par. No journeys will run beyond Heligan to Gorran. Buses will only operate to Trevarth in Mevagissey (not via School Hill) so that we can use larger vehicles on the route due to overloading. Buses will run to Heligan twice an hour on either the outbound or return journeys not both. The Sunday service will be revised to two-hourly between Fowey and St Austell and hourly between St Austell and Mevagissey/Heligan.
The 527 between Newquay and Eden will run via the A390 instead of Tregrehan between Chapelfields and Eden and there will be a revised timetable. This will provide improved connections for passengers from Fowey travelling to Eden. All buses will run via St Austell Station.
The 529 between St Austell and Bodmin will have a slightly revised timetable and will be re-routed via Carlyon Road and Eliot Road. All buses will run to St Austell Station.
As noted above, St Austell services will now run into the Station and most will arrive and depart at similar times past the hour to allow inter-connections to be made between services.
The contract for service 530 in Bude has been terminated and the service will be withdrawn. We are unsure what cheaper partial replacements the County is proposing at this stage.
Service 547 between Newquay and St Ives will be withdrawn for the winter but will be returning at Easter for the summer.Service 550 between Truro and St Mawes will lose its Saturday evening journeys but the Sunday service will be retained with minor changes
Service 558 Newquay – Pentire will have a slightly revised timetable
Service 559 will no longer double-run to Bedowan Meadows and will run between Newquay, Chester Road, Trerice Drive and Morrisons only to a revised timetable.
Service 561 will be withdrawn. Again, we are unsure what cheaper partial replacements the County is proposing at this stage.
A brand-new Sunday service will be introduced between Polperro, Looe, St Germans and Plymouth on service 572
Service 585/586 between Newquay and Truro via Newlyn East will revert to the original route as we are advised that the Fiddlers Green bridge will reopen at the beginning of November. Service 585 will be reduced in frequency and operate on Mondays to Fridays only. A brand-new Sunday service on 586 will be introduced between Newquay and Truro via Newlyn East.
Service 591/2/4 will revert back to the original numbers – 597 Newquay – St Columb Major – Truro (hourly), 587 Newquay – Perranporth – St Agnes – Truro (hourly). 594 will run Wadebridge – St Columb (connecting at St Columb with the hourly 593 between Newquay and Plymouth) – Truro (hourly). And a new day-time 588 will run Truro – Malabar - Perranzabuloe – Perranporth (hourly). The excellent news here is that it will double the frequency between Perranporth and Truro to two buses an hour all day and hourly on evenings and Sundays. This will also partially replace First’s 85/85A to St Agnes and First’s 27 service into Malabar which are both being withdrawn.

 

[overthewater]

it does seem WG are making improvements on its commercial network

 

[83G/84D]

I had hoped that the 2011 withdrawls of WG services in Camborne, and other parts of West Cornwall would be the last but now it appears bus serices in West Cornwall will be severely cut.

Granted First took over some WG routes in 2011 but judging by thee severity of cuts elsewhere and the poor loadings on some of those routes how long before there are more service reductions forced or otherwise?

 

[winston270twm]

it does seem WG are making improvements on its commercial network

Notice how First are cutting back again though.....

 

[Goldfish62]

I had hoped that the 2011 withdrawls of WG services in Camborne, and other parts of West Cornwall would be the last but now it appears bus serices in West Cornwall will be severely cut.

Granted First took over some WG routes in 2011 but judging by thee severity of cuts elsewhere and the poor loadings on some of those routes how long before there are more service reductions forced or otherwise?

A couple of years ago it was proposed that the subsidy for all evenings and Sunday services would be withdrawn and it was only due to a public outcry that CC agreed to retain the majority of services for another two years until April 2014. As we now know they have already reneged on that with the latest cuts.

These cuts are just the start. Come next April I wouldn't be surprised if evenings and Sunday services are a thing of the past in Cornwall, as has happened elsewhere.

That's what happens when council tax is frozen year after year and Central Government shirks its responsibilities in the name of "localism" while on the other hand demanding a certain level of expenditure cuts from local authorities.

 

[overthewater]

http://www.firstgroup.com/ukbus/devon_cornwall/travel_news/service_updates/?item=9351&conf=0

Have you got any issues, comments and suggestions about local buses in Cornwall?

We're holding two meet the manager events on Friday 20 September:

9am - 1pm. Epworth Hall on Coinagehall Street, Helston.
2pm - 5pm. Penzance Bus Station.

We look forward to seeing you there

 

[SWTH]

Latest arrival is Trident/ALX400 LX51 FMG (ex-Stagecoach 17488).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I saw Trident 17482 in service in Newquay yesterday in more or less "as arrived" condition. Still in dual door configuration with PD (Plumstead) depot codes & London legals!

They must have been removed last night as it was wearing WGL legals this morning.

Interesting changes, shame the drivers weren't told before the info went public.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Interesting the BBC found a talking head from the RMT to comment on job losses at WGL this evening - we've never had a union at WGL, and certainly not the RMT.

 

[83G/84D]

Latest arrival is Trident/ALX400 LX51 FMG (ex-Stagecoach 17488).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


They must have been removed last night as it was wearing WGL legals this morning.

Interesting changes, shame the drivers weren't told before the info went public.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Interesting the BBC found a talking head from the RMT to comment on job losses at WGL this evening - we've never had a union at WGL, and certainly not the RMT.

I had the chance to meet Phil Bialyk from the RMT at a meeting this week. He has been involved with RMT members in the bus industry and dealt with many bus issues over the years. I won't repeat on here all he said as I can't vouch for the accuracy of his comments in relation to some matters.

Suffice to say he gave an interesting viewpoint on the current situation regards cuts to bus services and how the bus companies are reacting.

Sadly the outlook from Phil's viewpoint was not rosy.

 

[daikilo]

I had the chance to meet Phil Bialyk from the RMT at a meeting this week. He has been involved with RMT members in the bus industry and dealt with many bus issues over the years. I won't repeat on here all he said as I can't vouch for the accuracy of his comments in relation to some matters.

Suffice to say he gave an interesting viewpoint on the current situation regards cuts to bus services and how the bus companies are reacting.

Sadly the outlook from Phil's viewpoint was not rosy.

Did he mention how RMT funds could be used to help WGL? No? So what useful role can he play for the whole company?

 

[SWTH]

Sadly the outlook from Phil's viewpoint was not rosy.

Given his job, could you expect his view to be any different? I'm afraid that I have little time for unions - in the bus industry they do more damage than good.

 

[83G/84D]

Did he mention how RMT funds could be used to help WGL? No? So what useful role can he play for the whole company?

As SWTH mentioned on an earlier post & Phil confirmed Western Greyhound have no RMT members so the union have no recognition/ negotiating rights.
Having said that I am sure the RMT / Phil would give any support to Western Greyhound he could if asked but he did not mention anything.

I am not sure if the Penzance based drivers of WG are union members or on separate T&C's or contracts etc so rather difficult for me to comment.

Suffice to say although not in the bus industry as an RMT member I did give my support to first drivers during a recent dispute.

Hopefully the RMT will help out in some way if appropriate.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Given his job, could you expect his view to be any different? I'm afraid that I have little time for unions - in the bus industry they do more damage than good.

I always got the impression from listening to Phil and another cornish based RMT member working for Firstbus, they cared a great deal about the bus industry and was listening to bus members and trying to look after their interests, maybe I'm wrong?

 

[Goldfish62]

Given his job, could you expect his view to be any different? I'm afraid that I have little time for unions - in the bus industry they do more damage than good.

Are you sure? I'm a union member and wouldn't have it any other way. They're there to offer support whenever you've difficulties with your employment. They're not all the political firebrands that the Daily Mail etc makes them out to be. I see it as an insurance policy.

You can be a member of a union and have full individual protection regardless of whether your employer gives formal recognition, eg if I lost my job unjustly my union would pay to take the case to a tribunal and offer a legal team. If I wasn't a union member, I'd be on my own, including having to fund my own tribunal case at considerable expense.

And, I might add, Stagecoach, among the big groups, are actually quite pro-union, having fostered working relationships with local T&G/Unite branches over the years. Indeed, Brian Souter, who I usually don't agree with, is not exactly renowned for his right-wing politics - quite the opposite in fact!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Did he mention how RMT funds could be used to help WGL? No? So what useful role can he play for the whole company?

Given that WGL does not recognise TUs why would a union use its members' subscriptions to support it? Harsh but realistic.

 

[SWTH]

I've seen plenty of occasions where the union staffers within a company will do whatever it takes to remain 'off the road', at whatever cost. If that meant cosying up to the management and supporting them over the drivers, then that's what they did. If that meant stiffing the drivers over a pay deal ("go on lads, chucking in your sick pay in return for a 20p p/h increase is good value!") then they would, just to remain 'in power'.

Unions are nothing more than a legalised pyramid scheme, designed to give the people at the top (Bob Crow - £141k pay deal, still lives in a council house if I remember correctly?) all the money whilst paying lip service to those at the bottom. I also don't want to fund politics, and certainly not Labour.

Sorry for the rant, but I've seen unions be destructive and not care a damn about the people they are supposed to protect.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
To drag this back on topic, I'm driving 495 (Y437 NHK, Trident/ALX400), and I've noticed something unusual about it; unlike the rest of the ex-Stagecoach Tridents we've had delivered so far, it's fitted with a ZF 5HP500-series gearbox (the rest have Voith 3-speed 'boxes).

Can anyone shed any light on why this particular one is different?

 

[455driver]

but I've seen unions be destructive and not care a damn about the people they are supposed to protect.

As have I, I have also seen Unions get better pay and conditions for their members and manage to keep people employed who should have been sacked for making a small mistake.

The Union should be there for the workforces wellbeing and should work with management for the good of everyone, the ones that just bang their fists on the table and say no to everything dont help anybody.

 

[SWTH]

455driver, would that be within the bus industry? I know in other industries the unions are good at getting the best deal for their members, but in the bus industry they are worse than useless.

 

[455driver]

455driver, would that be within the bus industry? I know in other industries the unions are good at getting the best deal for their members, but in the bus industry they are worse than useless.

I was in the bus industry up to about 10 years ago and saw both sides of the union, the bad (The roll over and have your belly tickled before becoming a manager ones, and the I am going to be awkward because I can brigade) but they didnt stay in power long and the 'right lets get this sorted out properly' who did stay in power.

The rail industry is lucky in that most of the workforce are in the 'right' union for the grade (especially the drivers) which gives the reps a decent amount of power to use and they use that power effectively but not unnecessarily.

 

[richw]

I am not sure if the Penzance based drivers of WG are union members or on separate T&C's or contracts etc so rather difficult for me to comment.

I'd imagine if any of the drivers remain from Sunset Travel they would have Tupe'd across when WG bought Sunset in 2007 so possibly on different contracts and T+Cs
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

To drag this back on topic, I'm driving 495 (Y437 NHK, Trident/ALX400), and I've noticed something unusual about it; unlike the rest of the ex-Stagecoach Tridents we've had delivered so far, it's fitted with a ZF 5HP500-series gearbox (the rest have Voith 3-speed 'boxes).

Can anyone shed any light on why this particular one is different?

I will ask a couple of my Flickr contacts who seem to know everything about many of these buses, I will come back to here with any response I find.

 

[83G/84D]

A posting on another bus related forum stated that the following ex Stagecoach London Trident's are now with Western Greyhound:-

Y437 NHK (17437) , Y447 NHK (17447), Y524 NHK (17450), LX51 FLZ (17482), Y445 NHK (17445), Y522 NHK (17440), LX51 FMG (17488), LX51 FNN (17510) & LX51 FNW (17518).

A total of twelve were mentioned previously so maybe more to come.

 

[83G/84D]

It has been reported today on a Yahoo Groups bus forum that the Optares on loan from Blackpool Transport have been returned to the North West.

 

[robertclark125]

Also been reported on the Fylde Bus Blogspot that they've returned to Blackpool Transport.

 

[richw]

Today I've seen an ex Nottingham solo that was on loan wearing western greyhound fleet names, so guessing that has become a permanent addition to the fleet. It was an X registration still in the 2 tone green Nottingham paint colours.