Western Greyhound Fire and subsequent WG general discussion.

[SWTH]

BF60 OEZ is the registration of the Citaro demonstrator.

From Arriva Midlands North/Wardles Transport Mercedes Varios 1905/6 have arrived, as well as 4 Optare Solos from Nottingham City. Dart 33783 has also arrived from Stagecoach in Exeter.

 

[richw]

I reckon they'll take the Leyland Lynxes that are scattered around Dorset and Lancashire. Probably take the Metroriders as well while they're at it to cover things up for the next few years while modern stuck is constructed to satisfy the needs of Western Greyhound.

I assume you are joking. WG wouldnt take none of these. As has been said insurance will cover like for like. Expect solos of varied ages, and maybe a few Beavers. There are also quite a lot of Tridents available.

Ensign buses has quite a few Tridents and Volvo B7TL of around the 10-12 year old mark. Considering the burnt versions of the Tridents were popular I expect similar replacement

 

[Rich McLean]

I very much Doubt a Lynx would get past an MOT, however if one did ever appear in service, I would be making a special trip for a bash

 

[SWTH]

Calling a Trident 'popular' is like describing limb amputation as 'not that bad'. It has to be said that there was disappointment among the drivers that 441 and 443 survived. All six Tridents were/are hugely unreliable, and barred from a couple of routes because they have a habit of beaching themselves.

Ideally, I'd like to see some B9TL's as replacements, but I'd guess the replacements will be more Tridents. I doubt any more Varios will be bought - under DDA regulations the Varios all have only 18 months before they cannot be used on local stage carriage service, so it'd be a bit of a waste. I should imagine Solos will be the order of the day.

Lynxes and Metroriders? You have to be having a laugh - as much as I like Lynxes (I've even owned one!) there's no way WGL would buy them.

 

[richw]

BF60 OEZ is the registration of the Citaro demonstrator.

From Arriva Midlands North/Wardles Transport Mercedes Varios 1905/6 have arrived, as well as 4 Optare Solos from Nottingham City. Dart 33783 has also arrived from Stagecoach in Exeter.

Solo demonstrator YJ11OJK spotted on Park and Ride today. Thought it looked good in the silver/grey colour

 

[overthewater]

Summer changes have come in: http://www.westerngreyhound.com/

The changes, which also include some additional amendments according to passenger request or demand, will be as follows:

the 501 - whilst the Sunday services will be withdrawn until 1st September (please see First Devon and Cornwall Service 300 for alternative buses) the extra evening services will be re-introduced for the Summer period.

the 521 - the extra evening services (Monday to Saturday) will be re-introduced for the Summer period.

the 547 - extra services will be re-introduced for the Summer period with buses running daily, every two hours between Newquay and St Ives. Additional buses will serve Hayle Towans rather than West Cornwall Retail Park. We are pleased to announce that St Ives Holiday Village (John Fowler at Lelant Downs) will now benefit from a substantial daily service, giving journey opportunities for both St Ives and destinations towards Newquay.

the 556 - extra services will be re-introduced in the evenings (Monday to Saturday) for the Summer period along with some minor timing alterations to incorporate several journeys serving St Merryn Holiday Village.

the 557 - due to lack of passenger demand, this service will now be withdrawn. Passengers wishing to travel from Padstow to Truro are advised to take the 555 to Wadebridge and connect with the 594 which does not require a change (at St Columb Major) for travel to Truro.

the 558 - this service will be re-routed to serve Agar Road instead of Trelawney Road, due to ongoing issues with parked vehicle obstruction.

the 572 - the extra evening services (Monday to Saturday) will be re-introduced for the Summer period between Polperro, East Looe and Looe Bay Holiday Park. Please note that there may be a temporary revised evening timetable introduced shortly, due to the ongoing flood repairs in Looe. Please keep an eye out for updates on our website and Facebook page.

the 576 - the journey at 0930 from Launceston to Plymouth will depart at 0925 in order to improve time-keeping, and will run five minutes earlier at all points to Callington.

the 584/595 - a vastly improved timetable for the summer period will be introduced, offering more buses between Wadebridge and Boscastle via Polzeath.

the 591/592 - the extra evening services (Monday to Saturday) will be re-introduced. Treloy Holiday Park and RAF St Mawgan will also be served for the summer period.

the 594 - extra Sunday services will be re-introduced for the Summer period.

Unless stated, all other services remain unchanged and continue as advertised.

Timetables for the new services are available to download from our website now. In addition, our popular mini-leaflet timetables will be available in the next few weeks from our Travelshop in Newquay and at our outlets (including TICs, holiday parks and libraries) across the network.

 

[83G/84D]

Calling a Trident 'popular' is like describing limb amputation as 'not that bad'. It has to be said that there was disappointment among the drivers that 441 and 443 survived. All six Tridents were/are hugely unreliable, and barred from a couple of routes because they have a habit of beaching themselves.

Ideally, I'd like to see some B9TL's as replacements, but I'd guess the replacements will be more Tridents. I doubt any more Varios will be bought - under DDA regulations the Varios all have only 18 months before they cannot be used on local stage carriage service, so it'd be a bit of a waste. I should imagine Solos will be the order of the day.

Lynxes and Metroriders? You have to be having a laugh - as much as I like Lynxes (I've even owned one!) there's no way WGL would buy them.

I'd agree with SWTH's comments on the Trident's. I have had the misfortune to travel on examples operated by First & Western Greyhound and would rather walk.

I am not blaming the drivers in the slightest as they can only drive what is available and feel sorry they have to drive such rubbish week in and week out.

Give me an Olympian any day, they may be getting old and tired but it's a more robust and reliable bus in my opinion. If only operators like First looked after their fleets of these buses better and put them through a refurbishment once in a while they would be better still for drivers and passengers alike.

 

[SWTH]

Can't disagree there, the ex-Nottingham Volvo Olympians we had were far more reliable. Even if something did go wrong, you can usually get them back to base without too much difficulty, unlike the Tridents. Given the longer period of time for when step-entrance deckers have to be withdrawn, there is a chance we'll buy more Olympians.

 

[83G/84D]

One bus loaned to Western Greyhound which I have seen mentioned here (post #91) is Wardle Transport's Mercedes Vario YM55 RRY which was on the 596 in Truro earlier today.

Plenty of other loaned buses out and about this morning in Newquay and Truro. Examples from Nottingham were X241 HBC, YJ51 ZVV, X239 HBC & W604 PTO. Stagecoach Dart 33942 with Swindon markings seen in Newquay and 47121 seen in Truro. Citaro & Solo demonstrators amongst others on Park & Ride duties although I think the Solo was standby for most of the morning.

No sign of the Routemaster today.

 

[Goldfish62]

Can't disagree there, the ex-Nottingham Volvo Olympians we had were far more reliable. Even if something did go wrong, you can usually get them back to base without too much difficulty, unlike the Tridents. Given the longer period of time for when step-entrance deckers have to be withdrawn, there is a chance we'll buy more Olympians.

Yes, another three and a half years before they have to go.

I saw some very tidy looking ex Dublin Olympians being advertised for sale recently..

 

[winston270twm]

Yes, another three and a half years before they have to go.

I saw some very tidy looking ex Dublin Olympians being advertised for sale recently..

Or what about some of the Volvo B7TL/ALX400 ex Dublin Bus currently advertised at Ensign?

http://www.ensignbus.com/#!bus15/c7fa

They seem tidy, are single door and may be prove more reliable than Tridents?

 

[Goldfish62]

Or what about some of the Volvo B7TL/ALX400 ex Dublin Bus currently advertised at Ensign?

http://www.ensignbus.com/#!bus15/c7fa

They seem tidy, are single door and may be prove more reliable than Tridents?

They certainly well looked after, but then I suspect also were the ex-Oxford Tridents. I think early Tridents and B7TLs both had their issues and it's probably just pot-luck and engineers' preferences whether one or t'other is better.

Anything's better than DAF/VDL!

 

[SWTH]

Or what about some of the Volvo B7TL/ALX400 ex Dublin Bus currently advertised at Ensign?

http://www.ensignbus.com/#!bus15/c7fa

They seem tidy, are single door and may be prove more reliable than Tridents?

Can't help thinking the B7TL's aren't man enough for the job. The Enviros were fitted with a Cummins 5.9 ISB which were really starting to suffer badly - they just couldn't cope with sustained high-speed running. The Tridents also suffered the same issues, hence why I'd prefer a B9TL. Better to overspec and not run flat out all day than find something that is just adequate and have to thrash the daylights out of it.

 

[winston270twm]

Can't help thinking the B7TL's aren't man enough for the job. The Enviros were fitted with a Cummins 5.9 ISB which were really starting to suffer badly - they just couldn't cope with sustained high-speed running. The Tridents also suffered the same issues, hence why I'd prefer a B9TL. Better to overspec and not run flat out all day than find something that is just adequate and have to thrash the daylights out of it.

I understand where you're coming from, but unfortunately there are few B9TL available on the second hand market as it is, you'd ideally need to pick up a couple of those Tri-axle B9TL with East Lancs/Optare bodywork that are pretty much to a coach spec for longer distance/high speed work

http://www.flickr.com/photos/21611052@N02/4859209781/in/set-72157622239482426

I doubt WGH will be in a position to be able to order a replacement fleet of brand new deckers to a high spec bus spec

 

[robertclark125]

Maybe not buy, but if there are any going for leasing, then WGH may be able to lease them?

 

[mbonwick]

If its sustained high speed running that's killing them, you need to be looking more at the gearboxes than engines IMHO...

 

[SWTH]

It's both to be honest.

Small engine + gearbox/diff geared for good hill climbing = engine at max revs at dual carriageway speeds.
Small engine + gearbox/diff geared for dual carriageway speeds = useless at hill climbing.

Of course, when the route has both steep hills and dual carriageways, it presents a headache.

Ideally i'd like a machine with a bigger/more powerful engine, and a gearbox specced for country work - no hitting the rev limiter at 60, and it'll still slog up hills without reducing to a snails pace.

Of course, as a humble steering wheel attendant, I have no input into what vehicles are actually suited to the routes....

 

[AnonymousUser1]

Calling a Trident 'popular' is like describing limb amputation as 'not that bad'. It has to be said that there was disappointment among the drivers that 441 and 443 survived. All six Tridents were/are hugely unreliable, and barred from a couple of routes because they have a habit of beaching themselves.

Ideally, I'd like to see some B9TL's as replacements, but I'd guess the replacements will be more Tridents. I doubt any more Varios will be bought - under DDA regulations the Varios all have only 18 months before they cannot be used on local stage carriage service, so it'd be a bit of a waste. I should imagine Solos will be the order of the day.

Lynxes and Metroriders? You have to be having a laugh - as much as I like Lynxes (I've even owned one!) there's no way WGL would buy them.

varios with Lifts are DDA compliant aren't they ? ( same as full sized coaches with lifts) ... cost / benefit time ...

 

[MCR247]

No I don't believe they are

 

[richw]

No I don't believe they are

Partially, a lift alone is not sufficient for DDA, however with the correct interior layout and colour scheme a Vario with a lift is DDA compliant.

The below quote is taken from numerous sources online

It isn't as simple as being low floor, the requirement is that buses are DDA compliant and that covers lots of aspects of the vehicles from interior layoutand colours to destination equipment etc etc.
Vehicles can be DDA compliant without being low floor (i.e the Mercedes Varios with side chair lift are DDA compliant) but an early low floor bus (built pre 2001) is not automatically DDA compliant and may need work to bring it up to scratch in time for 2015.

It is also worth bearing in mind several early low floor buses are not DDA compliant as their interior layout and colour schemes don't meet the requirements.

 

[SWTH]

Certainly none of WGL's Varios are DDA compliant. 591/2 have side lifts but both are unserviceable. To the best of my knowledge they have never been used. It is something of an elephant in the room at WGL - 36 Varios, all needing replacement in the next 18 months.

 

[overthewater]

Certainly none of WGL's Varios are DDA compliant. 591/2 have side lifts but both are unserviceable. To the best of my knowledge they have never been used. It is something of an elephant in the room at WGL - 36 Varios, all needing replacement in the next 18 months.

I did hear WGH might be able to get more time to sort out the problems, since many of the replacement fleet may not be suitable for some of the routes.

 

[SWTH]

Out of curiousity where did you hear that? There's nowhere on the WGL network that a DDA compliant vehicle cannot get to. The M7xx series Solos are much smaller than the Varios.

It does have to be said that the Varios are the best suited to the work, they have the best capacity for their size, and are more manoeuvrable. But the fact is, they need to go. M8xx and M9xx Solos do the job well enough, despite their issues.

 

[83G/84D]

Western Greyhound have their Heritage Day tomorrow with vintage bus services operating from Newquay, more information on their website. Good chance to see the loaned buses in action too.

 

[daikilo]

I did hear WGH might be able to get more time to sort out the problems, since many of the replacement fleet may not be suitable for some of the routes.

With insurance presumably covering vehichle similar replacement, this would seem a litle unlikely. Presumably they had a plan to comply ...

 

[83G/84D]

Reinstated Vario 552 was in Penzance earlier this week in the "new" livery. The green seems to be a different shade, the white roof has gone and the logo and Western Greyhound titles are in a different font/format. Quite impressed I was.

 

[richw]

Reinstated Vario 552 was in Penzance earlier this week in the "new" livery. The green seems to be a different shade, the white roof has gone and the logo and Western Greyhound titles are in a different font/format. Quite impressed I was.

I saw S100PAF one day in Shortlanesend and though it looked very smart in the new livery. She's only recently had a repaint, as have pictures of her at beginning of May in the old livery.

 

[83G/84D]

Certainly none of WGL's Varios are DDA compliant. 591/2 have side lifts but both are unserviceable. To the best of my knowledge they have never been used. It is something of an elephant in the room at WGL - 36 Varios, all needing replacement in the next 18 months.

Not sure if this is 100% as I was told but in the case of a Vario fitted with coach seats it is classed as a coach rather than a minibus and is as such not subject to the DDA regulations for an additional 5 years, although I think it also depends on interior fitment.

This is what I was told at the weekend from someone who does know about these things............

 

[starrymarkb]

A lot of WG's varios are Coach spec, as well as high back seats they also have a boot

 

[90019]

Is it not to do with the work they're used on, rather than the spec of the bus?