West Yorkshire "Enhanced Partnership Plus" proposal

[MasterSpenny]

First, Arriva and Transdev Blazefield are proposing an Enhanced Partnership Plus, as an alternative to full Franchising

Operators propose EP Plus to deliver West Yorkshire bus reform - routeone

A group of bus operators in West Yorkshire have put forward Enhanced Partnership Plus to delivery service reform in the region.

www.route-one.net

Operators propose EP Plus to deliver West Yorkshire bus reform​

A group of operators in West Yorkshire, including the three largest in Arriva, First Bus and Transdev Blazefield, have come out against bus franchising proposals for the region and instead put forward a plan for reform that they term Enhanced Partnership Plus.

The operators are campaigning under a tagline of The Best for West Yorkshire to oppose long-expected reregulation plans. Those include a formal consultation and were published by the West Yorkshire Combined Authority (WYCA) on 10 October.

In addition to Arriva, First and Transdev Blazefield, smaller operators are also part of the work. Their interests are represented by the Confederation of Passenger Transport.

WYCA has already acknowledged concern among SME bus operators around the possibility for business loss via franchising, and said that it has proved “difficult” to engage with those organisations.

Among the many commitments aired in the EP Plus document are:

• A fully zero-emission bus fleet in West Yorkshire by 2036, and by 2030 for First Bus depots in Leeds
• A simplified and integrated fare structure
• A unified brand for buses in the conurbation and a standard interior specification for new vehicles
• An agreed process for network reinvestment where benefits are realised from public capital investment
• Pre-0930hrs free travel for ENCTS passholders
• A passenger incentive programme as part of loyalty rewards and fare trials and discounts.

Under WYCA’s approach, the first franchised buses in the conurbation could be rolled out from June 2026. Mayor Tracy Brabin is to make a decision on 14 March 2024 about how bus reform in West Yorkshire is handled, with an expectation that she will follow Greater Manchester and the Liverpool City Region and choose franchising.

The operator group is using a campaign titled The Best for West Yorkshire to convey its favoured approach to bus reform
However, the operator group says that EP Plus would instead deliver benefits for customers – including “accelerating public control” – without the burden and financial risk of a franchised model.

They note that in the independent auditor’s assessment on bus reform options in West Yorkshire, EP Plus is described as “justifiable” in terms of value for money.

Under the operator-led proposals, bus provision in West Yorkshire would be controlled via a network management group overseen by WYCA to recommend development and change to services.

When combined, all of the commitments laid down in the EP Plus “will deliver all the benefits of bus reform: A better network, including improved reliability, more frequent services, simpler ticketing, unified customer service, and electrification of the fleet,” the group says.

Also part of the cited benefits to EP Plus is “immediate improvement” to bus services, which the operators say would come much more quickly than via franchising. An unnamed spokesperson for the group accepts the need for reform, but says that partnership work in West Yorkshire has already shown its benefits.

“We have jointly rolled out the Mayor’s Fares initiative, capping single trips at £2; have made travel for young people under 19 simpler and fairer on any bus; and led the way in introducing a greener fleet,” they continue.

“All of this has been delivered in partnership, which is what makes EP Plus the stronger and less risky choice to guarantee the best bus service for West Yorkshire.

“We welcome the consultation into the future of bus services in the region, and we look forward to working with our partners, passengers and the public to arrive at the best solution for everyone.”

 

[Tetchytyke]

Trouble is we’ve been here before with First Group and partnership working with WYPTE. Which is why Leeds and Bradford are littered with disused infrastructure that First insisted be installed at great expense, before First then abandoned at little notice.

Given First’s retrenchment in Bradford and Calderdale, franchising wouldn’t even make much difference- huge chunks of the evening and Sunday network is already tendered anyway. Not so bad now we have the £5 MetroDay ticket, but it used to be very expensive with First basically not running anything after 7pm in huge chunks of West Yorkshire. I’m not so familiar with Arriva territory but a scan at the timetables suggests it’s just as bad, if not worse, in the Spen Valley.

 

[Andyh82]

This is mentioned in the franchising documents released the other week

I didn’t mention it as I can’t see it gaining any traction.

The mayor wants franchising, passengers will be told it’ll result in blanket improvements fixing every possible negative, therefore it will be franchising that will go forward

 

[Leedsbusman]

Trouble is we’ve been here before with First Group and partnership working with WYPTE. Which is why Leeds and Bradford are littered with disused infrastructure that First insisted be installed at great expense, before First then abandoned at little notice.

Given First’s retrenchment in Bradford and Calderdale, franchising wouldn’t even make much difference- huge chunks of the evening and Sunday network is already tendered anyway. Not so bad now we have the £5 MetroDay ticket, but it used to be very expensive with First basically not running anything after 7pm in huge chunks of West Yorkshire. I’m not so familiar with Arriva territory but a scan at the timetables suggests it’s just as bad, if not worse, in the Spen Valley.

What disused infrastructure is there?

 

[mattb7tl]

Trouble is we’ve been here before with First Group and partnership working with WYPTE. Which is why Leeds and Bradford are littered with disused infrastructure that First insisted be installed at great expense, before First then abandoned at little notice.

Given First’s retrenchment in Bradford and Calderdale, franchising wouldn’t even make much difference- huge chunks of the evening and Sunday network is already tendered anyway. Not so bad now we have the £5 MetroDay ticket, but it used to be very expensive with First basically not running anything after 7pm in huge chunks of West Yorkshire. I’m not so familiar with Arriva territory but a scan at the timetables suggests it’s just as bad, if not worse, in the Spen Valley.

Lotting strategy ranks Keighley, and every region under Arriva's dominion, at the bottom of the service commerciality chart. These areas considerably dent their profits, even though they boast some of the lowest passengers per PVR. Also worth noting, any service within those regions that experience decent amounts of usage typically features a comprehensive timetable with running hours from 5-6 am to 10-11 pm.

In contrast, First-dominated regions thrive, with profits soaring. Their ability to provide a full-service isn't hindered by profit concerns, but rather by their vision and avarice. From my perspective, it seems that the authority has successfully collaborated with every company except First. The issue lies with them, not us, and similar problems persist in other regions.

Their newfound care after years of neglect is likely a result of their fear of losing control. They're now making grand promises and projecting a cooperative image to the public. Hopefully, people won't be easily swayed by their facade, again.

 

[AndyHudds]

Think the bus companies are mistaken that the fare paying public, in particular First, give 2 hoots about the problems they face, all the public see are bus services ravaged by cuts overseen by a managed decline to the extent where West Yorkshire has a dire bus network after 6 and Sundays and want consideable change. I have no sympathy with any of them and nor will anyone else, in particular First, who an absolute bunch of shysters.

 

[TUC]

Think the bus companies are mistaken that the fare paying public, in particular First, give 2 hoots about the problems they face, all the public see are bus services ravaged by cuts overseen by a managed decline to the extent where West Yorkshire has a dire bus network after 6 and Sundays and want consideable change. I have no sympathy with any of them and nor will anyone else, in particular First, who an absolute bunch of shysters.

The Mayor is partly to blame in implementing the £2 fare cap (which predated the national government policy). It made marginal evening services unviable. Keep politicians away from making commercial public transport decisions.

 

[mattb7tl]

The Mayor is partly to blame in implementing the £2 fare cap (which predated the national government policy). It made marginal evening services unviable. Keep politicians away from making commercial public transport decisions.

Reaching to the high heavens to blame it on the mayor and combined authority. The evening issue was the same before the cap, and in fact even before the pandemic.

In Huddersfield, we even have bus priority on most of our major corridors and yet have you seen the state of our services?
The 372 (Almondbury Side), a bus route with a decently executed long bus lane directly into the town centre and yet it barely has a timetable you can build your life around. It becomes extremely patchy, with unmemorable times and gaps in the evening.
And the best part...? First don't even bother to give passengers on this bus route the luxury of sitting in the bus station! That includes during storms, or other extreme weather conditions, or even at night!

That's just one route out of many that haven't received investment, care, and are currently being mismanaged into the ground.
Just over the hill in North Kirklees... Barely any bus priority exists, lower usage, longer distances and yet they have received more investment and have services that are less patchy, and run later. Same story over in Keighley.

 

[NorthernSpirit]

Trouble is we’ve been here before with First Group and partnership working with WYPTE. Which is why Leeds and Bradford are littered with disused infrastructure that First insisted be installed at great expense, before First then abandoned at little notice.

Given First’s retrenchment in Bradford and Calderdale, franchising wouldn’t even make much difference- huge chunks of the evening and Sunday network is already tendered anyway. Not so bad now we have the £5 MetroDay ticket, but it used to be very expensive with First basically not running anything after 7pm in huge chunks of West Yorkshire. I’m not so familiar with Arriva territory but a scan at the timetables suggests it’s just as bad, if not worse, in the Spen Valley.

The Spen Valley is one of the areas in which trying to improve the bus network is akin to performing eye surgery whilst blindfolded.

What would make more sense (other than reopening the Spen Valley Line) would be to have a bus running between Batley railway station and Brighouse via Cleckheaton, Heckmondwike and Birstall as this could form part of a "Spen Valley Orbital" in which passengers could travel on to certain points where they can interchange and get to their destination faster. Other routes could be a reintroduced 278 between Dewsbury and Halifax (with the Dewsbury to Brighouse section being a part of the SVO), the 205 between Mirfield and Dewsbury and whatever the fastest route is between Dewsbury and Batley.

Personally the Enhanced Partnership Plus proposal makes a lot more sense than franchising, although I disagree on the unified branding - how would that work if the fleet was to be transfered to another depot outside of West Yorkshire? It has to be said that unified branded was used before for MetroConnect (which covered the MC services, City/Town Buses and Pennine - the latter for the 900 between Hebden and Huddersfield) and MetroLocal (ML) services which were later scrapped and the unified branding binned. Many years ago there were the Metro PrePaid/Tender Services sticker on the side of all buses in West Yorkshire, this was later revised on 2007 with a generic M wymetro.com 3D sticker which lasted until very recently.

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The Mayor is partly to blame in implementing the £2 fare cap (which predated the national government policy). It made marginal evening services unviable. Keep politicians away from making commercial public transport decisions.

This is one of the many reasons why I'd love to see the Combined Authority in West Yorkshire being binned, as its no longer fit for purpose (especially with the overfocus on cycling and cycleways that nobody ever uses) and to make it worse we have a MetroMayor who cannot see the untold damage that she is doing to the local bus network (i.e the franchising thing and £2 fare cap which I cannot see why West Yorkshire simply didn't adopt the national scheme as it would have worked out cheaper and the BSIP funding being spent on paying for more services or extra journeys such as an extention on selected routes on Friday and Saturday nights until around 1/2am).

If I was a manager of an independant operator, I'd be preparing to take the MetroMayor to court over the loss of business and the loss of earnings if the franchising was to be forced through.

However saying that there is a Mayoral election next year.

 

[Andyh82]

And the best part...? First don't even bother to give passengers on this bus route the luxury of sitting in the bus station! That includes during storms, or other extreme weather conditions, or even at night!

That's just one route out of many that haven't received investment, care, and are currently being mismanaged into the ground.
Just over the hill in North Kirklees... Barely any bus priority exists, lower usage, longer distances and yet they have received more investment and have services that are less patchy, and run later. Same story over in Keighley.

You can’t blame First for the 372 not serving the Bus Station, it has always run from Westgate

There are probably photos online of Atlanteans working for Metrobus pre deregulation operating the 372 from Westgate

 

[Deerfold]

This is one of the many reasons why I'd love to see the Combined Authority in West Yorkshire being binned, as its no longer fit for purpose (especially with the overfocus on cycling and cycleways that nobody ever uses) and to make it worse we have a MetroMayor who cannot see the untold damage that she is doing to the local bus network (i.e the franchising thing and £2 fare cap which I cannot see why West Yorkshire simply didn't adopt the national scheme as it would have worked out cheaper and the BSIP funding being spent on paying for more services or extra journeys such as an extention on selected routes on Friday and Saturday nights until around 1/2am).

Some would wonder why they've got an obsession with buses that hardly anyone uses.

Why is franchising and a £2 bus fare doing damage to the bus network? The bus network seems to have plenty of damage without them

If I was a manager of an independant operator, I'd be preparing to take the MetroMayor to court over the loss of business and the loss of earnings if the franchising was to be forced through.

They tried that in Greater Manchester. It just delayed things.

I live deep in Transdev land. Our local services have largely remained the same or improved. However, whenever I have to travel further afield I see the massive cuts in service there have been in West Yorkshire - something needs to be done to reverse this and encourage people back to buses - I don't see why franchising is a bad way of trying to do this.

 

[Tetchytyke]

It made marginal evening services unviable

Did it heck.

Before the fare cap it was £3.70 single from Queensbury to Halifax, a distance of just under three miles. So when my dad and me went into Halifax drinking we took a taxi- a private hire cab was £8 and you didn’t have the tantalising excitement of wondering whether First would bother to run the 576 or not.

It was always a taxi back because the last bus, having been 2315 at one point, then 2300, then 2240, is now 2203.

All of the above pre-dates the £2 fare.

First made evening and Sunday services unviable all by themselves.

 

[AndyHudds]

You can’t blame First for the 372 not serving the Bus Station, it has always run from Westgate

There are probably photos online of Atlanteans working for Metrobus pre deregulation operating the 372 from Westgate

It has always run from Westgate but only in the direction of Almondbury currently, on the way to Lindley and HRI it does now go from the bus station along with the 370/71. The only service that uses the stop on Westgate in the Lindley direction is the every 30 minute 360.

 

[Tetchytyke]

What disused infrastructure is there?

Bradford in particular is littered with Kessel kerb bus stops on roads which haven’t seen a route for years. They did have a route when the stops were put in, First demanded the upgrades, but then First decided not to bother with most of Bradford and so we are where we are. The amount of money chucked up the wall is depressing.

First haven’t cared about Bradford or Halifax for at least the last 20 years.
No investment, constant service cuts, a zombie network of dross compared to what they inherited when they bought Yorkshire Rider.

But others on this thread seem to think Tracey Brabin is to blame and that First are the solution. The mind boggles.

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Also worth noting, any service within those regions that experience decent amounts of usage typically features a comprehensive timetable with running hours from 5-6 am to 10-11 pm.

In Leeds, maybe.

In Bradford and Calderdale, less so. The last 576 from Halifax to Bradford is 2203. 2203! And they wonder why nobody uses evening buses.

 

[AndyHudds]

Some would wonder why they've got an obsession with buses that hardly anyone uses.

Why is franchising and a £2 bus fare doing damage to the bus network? The bus network seems to have plenty of damage without them



They tried that in Greater Manchester. It just delayed things.

I live deep in Transdev land. Our local services have largely remained the same or improved. However, whenever I have to travel further afield I see the massive cuts in service there have been in West Yorkshire - something needs to be done to reverse this and encourage people back to buses - I don't see why franchising is a bad way of trying to do this.

The fact that the mayor has had to intervene with this proposal should be an indication that bus services are absolutely on their last legs, the fact seems lost on First and Arriva, First in particular, who are only interested in their profit margins and pleasing their shareholders. This is what happens when you put public services in private hands, continual cuts and in other sectors raw sewage pumped in to the rivers and seas.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Oct 2023 ==

Bradford in particular is littered with Kessel kerb bus stops on roads which haven’t seen a route for years. They did have a route when the stops were put in, First demanded the upgrades, but then First decided not to bother with most of Bradford and so we are where we are. The amount of money chucked up the wall is depressing.

First haven’t cared about Bradford or Halifax for at least the last 20 years.
No investment, constant service cuts, a zombie network of dross compared to what they inherited when they bought Yorkshire Rider.

But others on this thread seem to think Tracey Brabin is to blame and that First are the solution. The mind boggles.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Oct 2023 ==



In Leeds, maybe.

In Bradford and Calderdale, less so. The last 576 from Halifax to Bradford is 2203. 2203! And they wonder why nobody uses evening buses.

I mean, it's makes me chuckle about First and it's mind boggling in all honesty, First should be run out of West Yorkshire, certainly outside of Leeds, even in Leeds they've made cuts. In fact it wouldn't be outrageous or unfair to lay WY problems with the buses at the door of First.

 

[Deerfold]

What disused infrastructure is there?

Metro paid for road widening to enable the 577/578 circular Halifax - Sowerby - Boulderclough -Hubberton - Sowerby - Halifax (and reverse) to get through without being impeded by parked cars. Within 18 months, First restructured the services to be separate Boulderclough and Hubberton services, no longer running along that section of road.

Bradford town centre is a place to avoid in an evening if you want to be able to get out to see a band or a theatre show and want a bus back home afterwards. Many routes give up by 2200, most by 2230.

Transdev run buses back to Keighley at 2220, 2250(Sat), 2320 and (Fri, Sat) 0020.

There were no buses leaving Bradford to anywhere between those last two buses to Keighley either Friday or Saturday until recently when First introduced a later journey on Saturdays only to Leeds on the 72.

And that timetable has been wrong for several weeks as it includes buses from both Leeds and Bradford at times when the bus stations are closed without saying where they go from instead. Just looked it up to check if it's improved and the First website currently has no timetables for Bradford services at all.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Bradford town centre is a place to avoid in an evening if you want to be able to get out to see a band or a theatre show and want a bus back home afterwards. Many routes give up by 2200, most by 2230.

It’s the same in Halifax.

When my last bus home was 2315 I’d take the bus and get a day ticket.

When the last bus moved to 2240 we just started earlier. But when the last bus moved to 2203 it became a taxi home. And at First’s single fares it was as cheap to get a taxi into town too.

As you say, in Bradford it’s even worse. First just pack up and go home at 7pm. Nearly everything in the evening to places like Shipley, Wrose, Baildon is run on tender by the likes of TLC.

Arriva can be just as bad. The last bus from Halifax to Cleckheaton is 1835. But they still have relatively late buses from Bradford to Dewsbury and Cleckheaton at least.

 

[Leedsbusman]

Metro paid for road widening to enable the 577/578 circular Halifax - Sowerby - Boulderclough -Hubberton - Sowerby - Halifax (and reverse) to get through without being impeded by parked cars. Within 18 months, First restructured the services to be separate Boulderclough and Hubberton services, no longer running along that section of road

Was the service commercially operated at that time?

 

[Tetchytyke]

Was the service commercially operated at that time?

Yes- which is the problem with any sort of informal partnership. Commercial routes can be pulled with 60 days’ notice. Partnerships based on commercial registrations are therefore very vulnerable to change.

The only way you can prevent this is through a contractual agreement, a legally-binding commitment.

It is possible to get these commitments without franchising, to an extent we’ve seen that in Oxford, but it is a lot harder to get the required commitments unless you are in charge of managing the network. Which is where franchising comes in…

 

[Andyh82]

Metro paid for road widening to enable the 577/578 circular Halifax - Sowerby - Boulderclough -Hubberton - Sowerby - Halifax (and reverse) to get through without being impeded by parked cars. Within 18 months, First restructured the services to be separate Boulderclough and Hubberton services, no longer running along that section of road.

How far back are you going with that observation, as those services passed to Centrebus in 2010 so it must be the best part of 20 years ago?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Oct 2023 ==

Bradford in particular is littered with Kessel kerb bus stops on roads which haven’t seen a route for years. They did have a route when the stops were put in, First demanded the upgrades, but then First decided not to bother with most of Bradford and so we are where we are. The amount of money chucked up the wall is depressing.

Where are you talking about because although there has been lots of frequency cuts, evening service cuts and many lesser services are now run by TLC Travel, I’d say the network map is still fairly recognisable with the one issued when the Overground started in 2000. Most places still have a bus of some sort.

The ring road was a cut decades ago, but even the Ilkley/Otley/Guiseley corridor still has a limited service by the Transdev Flyer service


There did seem to be a campaign maybe about 15 years ago to off load all the lesser services. Back in Yorkshire Rider days they ran practically everything in the towns they ran in including minibuses, but since then most tenders outside of Leeds are run by others - TLC Travel, Team Pennine (Centrebus, Tiger, K Line previously), Stotts, South Pennine CT and various others that have come and gone

Now we have the reasonably priced Mayors day ticket it shouldn’t really be a problem, but it was previously when the Metro day ticket was much more expensive than the local area FirstDay

 

[Tetchytyke]

Where are you talking about because although there has been lots of frequency cuts, evening service cuts and many lesser services are now run by TLC Travel, I’d say the network map is still fairly recognisable with the one issued when the Overground started in 2000

West Royd, Hirst Wood, Baildon, Cottingley, Wrose, Eccleshill, Owlet Road/Bolton Woods, Hungerhill Estate. How many examples do you want?

Some of these roads might get a daytime hourly tendered service, but not all do. It’s certainly nothing compared to what used to run.

The “network map” has been stripped right back. The core Overground routes mostly still run daytime, yes, but at heavily reduced frequencies. Evenings, Sundays? Very little runs anymore. The last First bus from Bradford to Shipley is at 2008! Manningham Lane used to be one of the key routes.

First are just a zombie operator in Bradford.

 

[Deerfold]

Was the service commercially operated at that time?

Mon-Sat daytimes, yes.

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How far back are you going with that observation, as those services passed to Centrebus in 2010 so it must be the best part of 20 years ago?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Oct 2023 ==


Where are you talking about because although there has been lots of frequency cuts, evening service cuts and many lesser services are now run by TLC Travel, I’d say the network map is still fairly recognisable with the one issued when the Overground started in 2000. Most places still have a bus of some sort.

The ring road was a cut decades ago, but even the Ilkley/Otley/Guiseley corridor still has a limited service by the Transdev Flyer service


There did seem to be a campaign maybe about 15 years ago to off load all the lesser services. Back in Yorkshire Rider days they ran practically everything in the towns they ran in including minibuses, but since then most tenders outside of Leeds are run by others - TLC Travel, Team Pennine (Centrebus, Tiger, K Line previously), Stotts, South Pennine CT and various others that have come and gone

Now we have the reasonably priced Mayors day ticket it shouldn’t really be a problem, but it was previously when the Metro day ticket was much more expensive than the local area FirstDay

I went a while back with the Sowerby services, yes. First has been cutting for years.

The Overground routes are pretty much unchanged, but they were the most frequent services. Some of them are not very frequent now. Few of the non -Overground routes survive at all.

 

[Andyh82]

West Royd, Hirst Wood, Baildon, Cottingley, Wrose, Eccleshill, Owlet Road/Bolton Woods, Hungerhill Estate. How many examples do you want?

Some of these roads might get a daytime hourly tendered service, but not all do. It’s certainly nothing compared to what used to run.

But you said Bradford was littered with redundant bus infrastructure that was no longer used?

Surely an hourly tendered service is still a bus?

 

[158756]

But you said Bradford was littered with redundant bus infrastructure that was no longer used?

Surely an hourly tendered service is still a bus?

Barely. Many tendered services with their infrequent buses, short operating hours, absurd routes, and no effort at publicity are not far off no bus at all for most people. The private sector has failed if places like Leeds and Bradford need these tenders.


On the point about Manningham Lane, that just looks like one of the many examples of wasteful competition between what was (?) probably once the municipal operator and the NBC. And both competing with rail for longer journeys. In today's market there just aren't the passengers to justify two competing services in the evening.

If the Mayor wanted to introduce a proper integrated transport system the 662 should probably be withdrawn and the First services retained but curtailed at Shipley.

 

[Deerfold]

Barely. Many tendered services with their infrequent buses, short operating hours, absurd routes, and no effort at publicity are not far off no bus at all for most people. The private sector has failed if places like Leeds and Bradford need these tenders.


On the point about Manningham Lane, that just looks like one of the many examples of wasteful competition between what was (?) probably once the municipal operator and the NBC. And both competing with rail for longer journeys. In today's market there just aren't the passengers to justify two competing services in the evening.

If the Mayor wanted to introduce a proper integrated transport system the 662 should probably be withdrawn and the First services retained but curtailed at Shipley.

Manningham Lane had over 20 buses an hour along it when I went to school there in the 1980s and early 1990s.

Now there's 11. That's not a huge number for a main city road - especially when they're going different routes to different places and have taken 2 different routes out of the City Centre.

Why would you remove the 662? Is that because there's an hourly train service between the edge of Keighley Town centre and the edge of Bradford City centre?
Your proposals put a lot of people a long way from their nearest public transport. The 662 is the most frequent and probably the most reliable service in the area, despite its cuts since the dawn of COVID.

There aren't two competing services in an evening now that First have withdrawn the 622 completely in an evening and withdrawn the 626 between Shipley and Baildon, unless you're referring to the half-hourly 662 and hourly A3 - that doesn't sound like serious overbussing.

 

[Tetchytyke]

In today's market there just aren't the passengers to justify two competing services in the evening.

The 662 doesn’t go into Shipley, it never has, it isn’t “competing” with anything, certainly not the 622/626 now there’s no evening service!

The 662 is one of the better routes in Bradford- popular and frequent.

What used to be a key bus route is down to one direct bus an hour from Shipley to Bradford in an evening, the tendered airport bus.

But you said Bradford was littered with redundant bus infrastructure that was no longer used?

It is, and I gave you countless examples.

Some is outright abandoned completely, some is barely used, the effect is the same. Money wazzed up the wall because First gave up on Bradford 20 years ago.

First Bradford are a zombie bus company, somebody needs to put them out of their misery. The idea a “partnership” will change anything is laughable, to be honest. But I suspect First are solely thinking about the lucrative Headingley buses in Leeds- which is why we are where we are.

 

[mattb7tl]

Why would you remove the 662? Is that because there's an hourly train service between the edge of Keighley Town centre and the edge of Bradford City centre?
Your proposals put a lot of people a long way from their nearest public transport. The 662 is the most frequent and probably the most reliable service in the area, despite its cuts since the dawn of COVID.

There aren't two competing services in an evening now that First have withdrawn the 622 completely in an evening and withdrawn the 626 between Shipley and Baildon, unless you're referring to the half-hourly 662 and hourly A3 - that doesn't sound like serious overbussing.

The 662 also makes enough money to be entirely commercial, no tendered morning or night journeys, so it really would be a beyond silly idea to cut the route.
Transdev probably bites into their profits quite a bit to run a good chunk of journeys on the 662, like an operator is supposed to do...
First on the other hand expects handouts from local authorities, that is evident when every single one of their 'flagship' routes runs with subsidy despite usually having worse running times! (503, 576, 72)

 

[WAB]

But I suspect First are solely thinking about the lucrative Headingley buses in Leeds- which is why we are where we are.

I think calling it 'thought' is a bit generous towards First. It was 30bph in 2011 and is now around 15bph. Dwell times are unnecessarily long and bunches of 3-4 buses are de rigueur, leaving some pretty long gaps for a high-frequency corridor and late-running on the freehold sections of the route. There is something comical about the single deckers that are out and about too, full right up to the windscreen with a pantomime shuffle at each stop - I can't imagine passengers for Adel are impressed when they have to wait an hour or more for a 28 because deckers aren't being sent out and the core route has an insufficient de facto frequency.

If this is First at their best and the best bus territory in the city, then they deserve losing their little oligopoly...

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This is one of the many reasons why I'd love to see the Combined Authority in West Yorkshire being binned, as its no longer fit for purpose (especially with the overfocus on cycling and cycleways that nobody ever uses) and to make it worse we have a MetroMayor who cannot see the untold damage that she is doing to the local bus network (i.e the franchising thing and £2 fare cap which I cannot see why West Yorkshire simply didn't adopt the national scheme as it would have worked out cheaper and the BSIP funding being spent on paying for more services or extra journeys such as an extention on selected routes on Friday and Saturday nights until around 1/2am).

There are plenty of cyclists using the cycle lanes... and there is no evidence that there would have been a national £2 scheme until the metro mayors showed the government up. A few extra buses in the late evening on certain routes would be a drop in the ocean compared to the long-term potential of franchising.

I live deep in Transdev land. Our local services have largely remained the same or improved. However, whenever I have to travel further afield I see the massive cuts in service there have been in West Yorkshire - something needs to be done to reverse this and encourage people back to buses - I don't see why franchising is a bad way of trying to do this.

Transdev probably bites into their profits quite a bit to run a good chunk of journeys on the 662, like an operator is supposed to do...

Transdev Blazefield for all their faults are sort of aware of how to run a network and run things for the benefit of the passenger. First and Arriva are largely content to keep cutting until there is nothing left to cut, whereas Blazefield prune, graft and fertilise.

Yes- which is the problem with any sort of informal partnership. Commercial routes can be pulled with 60 days’ notice. Partnerships based on commercial registrations are therefore very vulnerable to change.

This EP+ proposal looks like nothing more than a defensive action. It suits Arriva and First quite nicely to have their own little carved-out areas of Yorkshire to do with as they please, and ditch trips which don't make money whenever they please.

The fact that the mayor has had to intervene with this proposal should be an indication that bus services are absolutely on their last legs, the fact seems lost on First and Arriva, First in particular, who are only interested in their profit margins and pleasing their shareholders. This is what happens when you put public services in private hands, continual cuts and in other sectors raw sewage pumped in to the rivers and seas.

It's difficult to see where First and Arriva go from here except downwards. Neither have the vision or desire to develop the network in any meaningful way.

Surely an hourly tendered service is still a bus?

An hourly day-time only round-the-houses service in a city is a distress purchase. Few people who aren't on passes or truly without other options are going to use such services.

There were no buses leaving Bradford to anywhere between those last two buses to Keighley either Friday or Saturday until recently when First introduced a later journey on Saturdays only to Leeds on the 72.

I find their promotion of their enhanced service amusing, given that it is the trunk bus route between one of the biggest cities in the UK and another major city... such revolutionary things as late-night journeys and a high frequency (which would still officially be low-frequency in all parts of London...) should come as standard.

And that timetable has been wrong for several weeks as it includes buses from both Leeds and Bradford at times when the bus stations are closed without saying where they go from instead. Just looked it up to check if it's improved and the First website currently has no timetables for Bradford services at all.

A lack of attention to customer care and information - see also their inability to programme the N1 not to show on live departures on the nights it doesn't run and their onboard announcements giving a number of stops in a row the exact same name.

First on the other hand expects handouts from local authorities, that is evident when every single one of their 'flagship' routes runs with subsidy despite usually having worse running times! (503, 576, 72)

First and Arriva have no concept of developing a network - they spend too much time obsessing over the profitability of individual services without understanding that you need to provide a decent network to get an overall successful network. I know for a fact that First Yorkshire's Head of Network was taught this on his university course...

 

[Tetchytyke]

This EP+ proposal looks like nothing more than a defensive action. It suits Arriva and First quite nicely to have their own little carved-out areas of Yorkshire to do with as they please, and ditch trips which don't make money whenever they please.

Absolutely. It serves them both very nicely to keep the profits from the lucrative bits of the network whilst dumping anything ‘marginal’ on the taxpayer.

And I deliberately use the word ‘marginal’, as they’re dumping more than the obviously loss-making routes, as you say they seem to be dumping specific journeys on a granular level. Look how many First routes are tendered in the evening and Sundays. So much for running a network.

Given the state of the bus provision in West Yorkshire, I don’t see how WYPTE can ever seriously enter into “partnership” with First.

 

[NorthernSpirit]

Why is franchising and a £2 bus fare doing damage to the bus network? The bus network seems to have plenty of damage without them.

With franchising your limited to what it is set out in the franchise - I cannot see how a small independant would be able to fulfil the franchise requirements without vast sums of cash to pay for additional items to meet the requirements (e.g. engine modifications). I could imagine operators such as Stringers throwing in the towel and calling it a day and just because they're using slighting older equiptment which wouldn't meet another set of invented regulations.

The £2 fare is alright in urban areas, its just in rural areas which is causing some damage as there's less people and with less people, less income is generated to retain the service even with subsidy its not going to cover costs (this includes drivers wage and consumables).

I live deep in Transdev land. Our local services have largely remained the same or improved. However, whenever I have to travel further afield I see the massive cuts in service there have been in West Yorkshire - something needs to be done to reverse this and encourage people back to buses - I don't see why franchising is a bad way of trying to do this.

Full sized rear adverts promoting the £2 fare and the £4.50 Metro DaySaver would be the way to go, this would include printing it in the timetables, at bus stops and even in the toilets in shopping centres and motorway services and even on advertising hordings.

Overall I'd rather see more independants running in West Yorkshire.