West of Exeter

[devon_metro]

I remember there being a thread that there was no business for rail travel west of Exeter.

Please explain to me why I had to stand on a service from Totnes today!

 

[Coxster]

Please explain to me why I had to stand on a service from Totnes today!

Because there were no seats available...

 

[Dennis]

Because it's the holiday season and everyone from Birmingham and other places up north come to admire the wonderful scenery and to eat clotted scones, jammy cream and rice pudding.

Some of them even look at cows in the fields, muttering darkly that they are not real because real cows are a sort of concrete grey in colour and live on roundabouts.

 

[Woody]

I remember there being a thread that there was no business for rail travel west of Exeter.

Please explain to me why I had to stand on a service from Totnes today!

Travel in Devon/Cornwall on a peak train on a peak day(Friday) at the peak time of year as I did today on 10.01 Penzance/Paddington(reported full and standing on arrival in Plymouth) and of course there is overcrowding.Do the same journey outside these peaks during the rest of the year when the tourists are gone as I do regularly and its a completely different story with many HSTs running half empty into Cornwall with local shoppers bound for Plymouth in the majority.

 

[paul1609]

I reckon that in the summer Padd to Pen trains should be compulsory reservation and non stop between Reading and Plymouth.
The Plymouth trains should alternate between Paignton and Plymouth.
In the winter the majority of the HSTs should terminate at Exeter with a guarnteed connection onwards to Plymouth. In my experience the lunchtime traffic from Plymouth could be quite easily accomodated on a 153!

 

[devon_metro]

Travel in Devon/Cornwall on a peak train on a peak day(Friday) at the peak time of year as I did today on 10.01 Penzance/Paddington(reported full and standing on arrival in Plymouth) and of course there is overcrowding.Do the same journey outside these peaks during the rest of the year when the tourists are gone as I do regularly and its a completely different story with many HSTs running half empty into Cornwall with local shoppers bound for Plymouth in the majority.

Thats the service i'm talking about! The quite coach vestiable was even wedged at Totnes and It looked like a bit of a scrum in coach E when getting off at Newton Abbot.

Obviously it is quiet in winter but having trains running this full must make it worthwhile to keep the railways running.

 

[87015]

Obviously it is quiet in winter but having trains running this full must make it worthwhile to keep the railways running.

Yes if you want to offer a service, no if you want to make a profit...

 

[Woody]

Thats the service i'm talking about! The quite coach vestiable was even wedged at Totnes and It looked like a bit of a scrum in coach E when getting off at Newton Abbot.

Obviously it is quiet in winter but having trains running this full must make it worthwhile to keep the railways running.

Therein lies the problem,Devon and Cornwall has a huge seasonal variation in demand for rail travel being the uks prime holiday destination.To make matters worse the rail route west of Newton Abbott serving Plymouth the main urban conurbation in the two counties(nearly 400,000 people live within a 5 mile radius of Devonport Dockyard) is slow and sinuous(lines speeds of 55/60mph still predominate), FGW trains that 10 years ago took 50/55 minutes between Exeter and Plymouth now take 60/65 minutes.Add to that years of well documented problems on FGW that have driven huge numbers of year round longer distance travellers from Plymouth/Cornwall off the rails and onto much improved road and air links.When all is said and done it is still a political problem,there are simply are not enough Labour MPs in Devon/Cornwall to loose their scalps over the peninsulas railways shortcomings to be taken seriosly at Westminster.

 

[devon_metro]

The fact that some trains are so well used west of Plymouth means there is no capacity for the stations that generally provide healthy numbers all year round such as Newton Abbot, Exeter and Taunton.

 

[Woody]

I reckon that in the summer Padd to Pen trains should be compulsory reservation and non stop between Reading and Plymouth.
The Plymouth trains should alternate between Paignton and Plymouth.
In the winter the majority of the HSTs should terminate at Exeter with a guarnteed connection onwards to Plymouth. In my experience the lunchtime traffic from Plymouth could be quite easily accomodated on a 153!

Given FGWs onerous premium profile over the life of the franchise what you have suggested could well happen when the big numbers kick in as FGW will be forced by fiscal realities to prune the extremities of the franchise outside the summer peaks,and the rail service west of Exeter will be a prime target.Indeed I would not be surprised if FGW exercised its option after year 7 of the current franchise to chuck in the towel(As GNER did) if it is forced to stick to the current premium profile until year 10 by the Dft.

 

[devon_metro]

I can see there being uproar and would destroy all rail travel that is taken west of Exeter.

I would support any attempts to sabotage this.

 

[paul1609]

Therein lies the problem,Devon and Cornwall has a huge seasonal variation in demand for rail travel being the uks prime holiday destination.To make matters worse the rail route west of Newton Abbott serving Plymouth the main urban conurbation in the two counties(nearly 400,000 people live within a 5 mile radius of Devonport Dockyard) is slow and sinuous(lines speeds of 55/60mph still predominate), FGW trains that 10 years ago took 50/55 minutes between Exeter and Plymouth now take 60/65 minutes.Add to that years of well documented problems on FGW that have driven huge numbers of year round longer distance travellers from Plymouth/Cornwall off the rails and onto much improved road and air links.When all is said and done it is still a political problem,there are simply are not enough Labour MPs in Devon/Cornwall to loose their scalps over the peninsulas railways shortcomings to be taken seriosly at Westminster.

Is there really any need for the trains to go faster?
80% of the traffics toursts who like looking out the windows at Dawlish and the Tamar Bridge not wizzing along at high speed.
15% is locals that are either retired or on benefits and arent in a hurry.
the other 5% would drive if they were in a hurry or fly up to Gatwick.

 

[devon_metro]

Is there really any need for the trains to go faster?
80% of the traffics toursts who like looking out the windows at Dawlish and the Tamar Bridge not wizzing along at high speed.
15% is locals that are either retired or on benefits and arent in a hurry.
the other 5% would drive if they were in a hurry or fly up to Gatwick.

Hmm. I can't find my category :?

 

[Spaceflower]

Are we talking of managed decline here chaps?:-?

Shouldnt we be talking about how this region can develop its rail links further?

 

[Woody]

Are we talking of managed decline here chaps?:-?

Shouldnt we be talking about how this region can develop its rail links further?

I think you have hit the nail on the head with the phrase "managed decline".Certainly the FGW has changed from the "inter-city type operation that it was 30 years ago.Commuting has boomed particularly along the M4 corridor and has become FGWs bread and butter while traditional longer distance services to Devon and Cornwall now have to compete with constantly improving roads and air links.According to the Railway White Paper just released the government intends to shift the burden of paying for the railway much more heavily to passengers,who payed 50% of the cost of running this year but will pay 75% from 2014.While most commuters will have little choice but to cough up longer distance rail users now have much improved alternatives which is why I believe the FGWs HST refurbishment is clearly biased towards the commuting market with those rediculously high standard class seats and limited luggage space. I am not suggesting there will be another "Beeching" west of Exeter but rather to use that phrase again a "managed decline" as both the fiscal realities of FGWs franchise agreement and the governments railway white paper bit.