west midlands fraud investigation

[smallbean09]

Hello everyone,

I am looking for advice regarding a difficult situation I am currently facing against West Midlands Trains. I was recently caught using a childs ticket at Birmingham New Street Station, when I am 19. I know this is wrong and I admitted I was in the wrong when I was questioned by a ticket inspector.

I recently got an email saying "Further investigations into this matter have been carried out, including a review of the ticket records. It would appear, at this stage, that this may be a case of fraud. West Midlands Trains take travel fraud extremely seriously and is committed to prosecuting all cases of fare evasion to the full extent of the law. Travelling on the railway with the intent to avoid paying the full fare is an offence under the Regulation of Railways Act 1889. Such an offence carries a maximum fine of £1,000 and/or three months’ imprisonment and, in either case, a criminal record. It must also be considered whether this matter amounts to a much more serious offence under the Fraud Act 2006".

I responded to this email with this:

I am writing to apologise for the incident of travelling with a child’s ticket on the 23rd of October 2024. I understand the gravity of my actions, and I genuinely regret my irresponsible and dishonest behaviour, particularly as you will have noticed that I have purchased child fares on other occasions too.

Taking full responsibility, I understand that my actions were dishonest and against the law, for which I am truly sorry. When asked by the ticket inspector at Birmingham New Street station, I told him my real age, which is 19. In relation to the fares avoided, I seek your understanding and consideration in settling this matter outside court, and I am committed to accepting any appropriate consequences for my actions.

I am willing to rectify the situation with immediate effect by paying the full amount of the unpaid fares, and any additional administrative costs incurred in dealing with this matter. Furthermore, I assure you that such behaviour will never be repeated, as I am committed to adhering strictly to all regulations governing public transport. I will be seeking information regarding the cost of a 16-25 railcard, to reduce the cost of any future train tickets I purchase.

I am sorry for my actions, and I am willing to cooperate fully if any additional information is required. To move this matter forward, I would be grateful if you could set out the amount of outstanding fares, your costs, and details of how to make payment, by reply.

I look forward to hearing from you and to bringing this matter to a close.

--

They have sent me an email this morning (14th November) stating all the times I 'fraudulently' travelled on West Midlands Trains. Please see attached table below:

Departure​	Origin​	Destination​	Child​	Railcard​	Price​
04/01/2022 11:48​	Bromsgrove​	Birmingham New Street​		16-17 Saver​	7.10​
22/02/2022 16:34​	Droitwich Spa​	Birmingham New Street​		16-17 Saver​	17.00​
26/02/2022 12:48​	Bromsgrove​	Birmingham New Street​		16-17 Saver​	13.40​
26/03/2022 12:12​	Bromsgrove​	Worcester Foregate Street​		16-17 Saver​	5.00​
13/05/2022 17:04​	Birmingham New Street​	Liverpool Lime Street​		16-17 Saver​	89.10​
10/04/2022 17:21​	Bromsgrove​	Worcester Foregate Street​		16-17 Saver​	5.90​
21/04/2022 13:33​	Droitwich Spa​	Birmingham New Street​		16-17 Saver​	26.40​
28/05/2022 09:33​	Birmingham New Street​	Coventry​		16-17 Saver​	8.50​
18/05/2022 14:11​	Bromsgrove​	Worcester Foregate Street​		16-17 Saver​	5.00​
28/05/2022 08:29​	Bromsgrove​	Birmingham New Street​		16-17 Saver​	7.00​
05/07/2022 16:29​	Bromsgrove​	Birmingham New Street​		16-25 Railcard​	18.37​
22/07/2022 12:33​	Droitwich Spa​	Birmingham New Street​	2​	​	17.60​
25/07/2022 12:01​	Bromsgrove​	Birmingham New Street​	2​	​	14.80​
08/08/2022 11:33​	Droitwich Spa​	Birmingham New Street​	2​	​	32.40​
10/08/2022 10:12​	Bromsgrove​	Worcester Foregate Street​	1​	​	5.90​
02/09/2022 15:01​	Bromsgrove​	Birmingham New Street​	1​	​	17.10​
10/09/2022 09:33​	Droitwich Spa​	University (Birmingham)​	1​	​	8.20​
10/09/2022 15:31​	University (Birmingham)​	Bromsgrove​	1​	​	6.40​
14/10/2022 16:43​	Bromsgrove​	Birmingham New Street​	1​	​	7.00​
07/10/2022 15:43​	Bromsgrove​	Birmingham New Street​	1​	​	7.00​
11/10/2022 16:12​	Bromsgrove​	Worcester Foregate Street​	1​	​	5.90​
26/10/2022 09:43​	Bromsgrove​	Birmingham New Street​	1​	​	7.00​
20/10/2022 16:12​	Bromsgrove​	Droitwich Spa​	1​	​	3.80​
22/10/2022 17:24​	Worcester Foregate Street​	Bromsgrove​	1​	​	5.00​
02/11/2022 16:12​	Bromsgrove​	Droitwich Spa​	1​	​	3.80​
12/11/2022 17:33​	Droitwich Spa​	Birmingham New Street​	2​	​	17.60​
01/12/2022 17:42​	Bromsgrove​	Birmingham New Street​	1​	​	13.60​
05/12/2022 13:23​	Birmingham New Street​	Bromsgrove​	1​	​	7.00​
20/01/2023 16:41​	Bromsgrove​	Birmingham New Street​	1​	​	37.90​
22/02/2023 10:03​	Bromsgrove​	Birmingham New Street​	2​	Family & Friends Railcard​	65.62​
04/02/2023 09:03​	Bromsgrove​	University (Birmingham)​	1​	​	6.40​
04/02/2023 14:56​	University (Birmingham)​	Lichfield Trent Valley​	1​	​	7.40​
10/02/2023 15:43​	Bromsgrove​	Birmingham New Street​	1​	​	30.40​
08/03/2023 10:03​	Bromsgrove​	Birmingham New Street​	0​	Family & Friends Railcard​	57.82​
11/04/2023 09:43​	Bromsgrove​	Birmingham New Street​	2​	​	46.00​
17/03/2023 15:43​	Bromsgrove​	Birmingham New Street​	1​	​	32.20​
19/04/2023 13:42​	Bromsgrove​	Birmingham New Street​	0​	16-25 Railcard​	13.50​
10/06/2023 12:03​	Bromsgrove​	Birmingham New Street​	0​	16-25 Railcard​	19.35​
12/06/2023 13:03​	Bromsgrove​	Birmingham New Street​	1​	​	7.80​
27/07/2023 11:43​	Bromsgrove​	Birmingham New Street​	0​	16-25 Railcard​	7.65​
11/08/2023 15:24​	Droitwich Spa​	Birmingham Snow Hill​	0​	16-25 Railcard​	18.00​
17/08/2023 19:42​	Bromsgrove​	Worcester Foregate Street​	0​	16-25 Railcard​	5.17​
07/09/2023 09:43​	Bromsgrove​	Birmingham New Street​	1​	​	39.00​
20/09/2023 13:03​	Bromsgrove​	Birmingham New Street​	1​	​	7.80​
15/12/2023 12:43​	Bromsgrove​	Birmingham New Street​	1​	​	7.80​
06/04/2024 16:03​	Bromsgrove​	Birmingham New Street​	1​	​	7.80​
29/05/2024 15:03​	Bromsgrove​	Birmingham New Street​	0​	16-25 Railcard​	20.40​
05/08/2024 09:13​	Bromsgrove​	Birmingham New Street​	1​	​	9.40​
23/10/2024 16:02​	Bromsgrove​	Birmingham New Street​	1​	​	8.20​
				Admin	175.00​
				Total	1013.48​

On occasions where it says 16-17 saver, I actually did have a 16-17 save card which I can send them proof of. On the 5th of July 2022, I used a 16-25 railcard. I actually did have a 16-25 railcard at this time which i can also send them proof of.

My problem now is, at later dates where I have used a 16-25 railcard on my trainline account it has been my partner's railcard but tickets paid with on my account in my name. Am I incriminating myself if I say I bought the tickets, I was with my partner on these journeys, but it was his railcard? Also, with the family and friends railcard I bought the tickets, but travelled with my mum both times - she had a F&F railcard but can't find proof of purchasing this.

I don't believe I owe £1013.48. I don't know how to prove to them that I was travelling with my partner/mum. Is it illegal to state you have a railcard but buy tickets on your own account with someone elses railcard, even if they are with you?

I am so sorry for this lengthy message. I just hope someone can help me on what to do with this. I am a student with little money, I don't have the total amount they are asking for.

Thank you so much for your help

 

[John R]

Where you can prove that held the appropriate railcard then you should do so, and ask if those cases can be removed from the list.

With regard to the tickets where they were bought for your girlfriend then maybe there was a second ticket purchased at the same time which they will be able to see? If so, you should tell them this, say that the second ticket was for you and that your girlfriend used the other one. I suggest you only do this if you can again provide evidence of that railcard.

The Family and Friends one is a bit more difficult if your mother hasn't got evidence of the railcard anymore, and I would suggest you tell them the situation but say that as she no longer has evidence of that railcard, you understand if they are reluctant to remove that one from the list.

If you want to produce a draft reply and post it here then we can take a look and see if it comes across with the right tone and is clear as to what you are saying.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

You also want to be seen to be co-operating. So where you agree with their analysis (and if I have read you right, I think that there are some tickets where you agree) it's worth saying so. Obviously that won't get you out of paying for those journeys - but it gives the message that you're trying to help the railway to get it right, rather than just trying to get off having to pay now.

 

[Titfield]

The Family and Friends one is a bit more difficult if your mother hasn't got evidence of the railcard anymore, and I would suggest you tell them the situation but say that as she no longer has evidence of that railcard, you understand if they are reluctant to remove that one from the list.

Have you asked your mother to check her bank account to see if there is a payment for the f and f railcard or could at least be reasonably expected to be a payment for the f and f railcard?

Is it illegal to state you have a railcard but buy tickets on your own account with someone elses railcard, even if they are with you?

If someone else has a railcard you can buy a discounted ticket for them on your account for them to use. Unfortunately though this purchasing activity could have an alternative interpretation namely you bought a discounted ticket for you to use when you did not have the appropriate railcard. Based on your other behaviours the TOCS will take the alternative interpretation as the "real one" unless you can provide incontrovertible evidence that the ticket was for and used by the other person.

 

[AlterEgo]

Did you copy your letter from this one? https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...t-on-west-midlands-train.251762/#post-6319721

 

[alex17595]

Were you travelling as the one 'child' on the Family and Friends railcard ticket?

 

[SuspectUsual]

On the 5th of July 2022, I used a 16-25 railcard. I actually did have a 16-25 railcard at this time which i can also send them proof of

This bit confuses me.

Up until 28/5/22 you'd been using a 16-17 Saver, and you say you're now 19, so that roughly stacks up. You then say you had a 16-25 Railcard on 5/7/22 and can prove it, so why do most of the tickets after 5/7/22 not have a railcard applied? Surely you'd have used the railcard?

 

[smallbean09]

Hi everyone, thank you so much for all your responses. I provided evidence of my 16-17 and 16-25 railcard, and the total cost has now gone down to £777.86.

I really appreciate all your help, thank you so much.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Nov 2024 ==

This bit confuses me.

Up until 28/5/22 you'd been using a 16-17 Saver, and you say you're now 19, so that roughly stacks up. You then say you had a 16-25 Railcard on 5/7/22 and can prove it, so why do most of the tickets after 5/7/22 not have a railcard applied? Surely you'd have used the railcard?

I honestly don't know why I didn't use my railcard, I am as confused as you!!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Nov 2024 ==

Have you asked your mother to check her bank account to see if there is a payment for the f and f railcard or could at least be reasonably expected to be a payment for the f and f railcard?



If someone else has a railcard you can buy a discounted ticket for them on your account for them to use. Unfortunately though this purchasing activity could have an alternative interpretation namely you bought a discounted ticket for you to use when you did not have the appropriate railcard. Based on your other behaviours the TOCS will take the alternative interpretation as the "real one" unless you can provide incontrovertible evidence that the ticket was for and used by the other person.

I'm not sure how I would provide proof I was with my partner at the time - I have a picture of his railcard, but I don't think that will do anything

 

[Lewisham2221]

Hi everyone, thank you so much for all your responses. I provided evidence of my 16-17 and 16-25 railcard, and the total cost has now gone down to £777.86.

I really appreciate all your help, thank you so much.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Nov 2024 ==


I honestly don't know why I didn't use my railcard, I am as confused as you!!

Honestly, looking at the list, it seems like every non-railcard ticket you've purchased was a child fare. So I'd interpret that as you still trying to "save" an extra few quid or whatever, despite holding a Railcard.

Hopefully this experience will serve as an expensive lesson and a wake up call to make sure you are always purchasing a valid ticket before boarding a train.

 

[smallbean09]

Honestly, looking at the list, it seems like every non-railcard ticket you've purchased was a child fare. So I'd interpret that as you still trying to "save" an extra few quid or whatever, despite holding a Railcard.

Hopefully this experience will serve as an expensive lesson and a wake up call to make sure you are always purchasing a valid ticket before boarding a train.

I know, I feel so awful about the whole thing. I will always make sure I buy the correct ticket next time

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Nov 2024 ==

Did you copy your letter from this one? https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...t-on-west-midlands-train.251762/#post-6319721

yes

 

[smallbean09]

Have you asked your mother to check her bank account to see if there is a payment for the f and f railcard or could at least be reasonably expected to be a payment for the f and f railcard?



If someone else has a railcard you can buy a discounted ticket for them on your account for them to use. Unfortunately though this purchasing activity could have an alternative interpretation namely you bought a discounted ticket for you to use when you did not have the appropriate railcard. Based on your other behaviours the TOCS will take the alternative interpretation as the "real one" unless you can provide incontrovertible evidence that the ticket was for and used by the other person.

I don't know how to solve the f and f railcard problem if my mum can't find proof of purchase.

I just told them about my partner's railcard and sent them a picture of it, so let's hope they take those charges off too

 

[WesternLancer]

when you pay the sum demanded, keep proof of payment and keep all the documents and proof you gathered for this - and keep that safe long term (by which I mean well over a year).

Good that you managed to get the sum requested reduced via the proof you could supply.

 

[smallbean09]

when you pay the sum demanded, keep proof of payment and keep all the documents and proof you gathered for this - and keep that safe long term (by which I mean well over a year).

Good that you managed to get the sum requested reduced via the proof you could supply.

okay, i'll keep all the evidence. how come you think i need to keep it over a year after the case has closed?

 

[Fawkes Cat]

okay, i'll keep all the evidence. how come you think i need to keep it over a year after the case has closed?

As with paying any bill, there's always a chance that things might go astray and the payment not be properly recorded. So if the railway make a mess of their records and say that you haven't paid, it's useful to be able to prove that you've done your bit and they've messed up their end.

It's a fairly small risk - but hanging on to a screen print is a fairly small solution so it might be worth putting in the fairly small effort to give yourself reassurance.

 

[WesternLancer]

okay, i'll keep all the evidence. how come you think i need to keep it over a year after the case has closed?

just because anything that involves money is best to keep proof long term where you can find it in case the organisation messes up and accuses you of not paying for some reason (many say keep stuff for 6 years).

 

[smallbean09]

Hi guys,

They took my boyfriend's railcard into consideration which saved me £50. The final amount I had to pay was £726. I really appreciate all your help on this case

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Hi guys,

They took my boyfriend's railcard into consideration which saved me £50. The final amount I had to pay was £726. I really appreciate all your help on this case

Thanks for letting us know - it feels like a lot of money but it gets everything over and done with.