West Lothian buses

[Driver362]

Correct. I mind that statement was reversed and a senior manager at deans telling employees that now work for us that. "Don't worry about LCB they will be gone in a couple of months. Just a flash in the pan." I can't recall many if at all saying LCB would wipe the floor with them in months or at worst a year. That is utter nonsense and anyone with an ounce of knowledge of how a bus Co works would know just how tall an order that would be. And may I remind people this is a start from zero operations to what we have. Sure we've made mistakes but we're getting there slow but sure bit by bit. Some on here look for drama where there is no drama. What's wrong with open and honest dialogue about how both Co's are doing

 

[overthewater]

Might refer to your post below where if you have the view that it's a classic bus war, then you're a fool to yourself? So almost by definition, if you have that view then you're a fool???
I'd also stress that you keep mentioning all the bad press and emails and comments. That can't be taken as gospel. That companies shouldn't ignore the views of the population, there is also enough evidence of the ease of social media now distorting public opinion. After all, we have had two recent examples...

1. The massive upswell of protest against First's WL streamlining and yet Lothian haven't been able to wipe the floor with the "despised" First. Somehow First have managed to survive and retain a good portion of trade.... did those passengers not read the social media or perhaps the social media is a bit unrepresentative?
2. The X1 in Glasgow getting 4500 petitioners when the current route gets about 10% of that on a daily basis - just do the maths!

Lothian were never going to dislodge First in a year, and to think that they haven't is some sort of failure, is just an incorrect interpretation of the facts.

Correct. I mind that statement was reversed and a senior manager at deans telling employees that now work for us that. "Don't worry about LCB they will be gone in a couple of months. Just a flash in the pan." I can't recall many if at all saying LCB would wipe the floor with them in months or at worst a year. That is utter nonsense and anyone with an ounce of knowledge of how a bus Co works would know just how tall an order that would be. And may I remind people this is a start from zero operations to what we have. Sure we've made mistakes but we're getting there slow but sure bit by bit. Some on here look for drama where there is no drama. What's wrong with open and honest dialogue about how both Co's are doing

Let's take both points together.

The views of bad press / emails /comments, have been ongoing for years, Well before SM: I remember one day at St john' waiting for buses ( during the period when all edinburgh buses were running late because of the trams this would be many moons ago) and people then were like, Red buses need to come back. There were also people complaining about the fare, saying there were getting ripped off. If you at local papers the complaint in them, there also highlight people not being happy. Its Common knowledge.

Kirkliston Community council have just postage "KCC has campaigned for this for longer than I can remember" in announcing the routes. A Community council has made clear there not happy, which means there must be getting public demand and hatred over the incumbent.. I would say it pretty gospel. LCB even admit they got a high volume of request about West Lothian. I would also bet most of existing First passenger are like yes we would like to jump to LCB but can't because of the tickets problems.

I agree the X1 petitions is joke, and will not solve the problems because the X1 is dead during the day.

So called Drama is disappointment. Which is a result from the fact the First Scotland East Area being so toxic, and problematic for years, that was of course linked to undertaking from 97 and Scotrail in 04. Public relations is poor, while council funding of route in West Lothian, falkirk and Stirling areas are poorer overall compared to other area like Angus or SPT. So when competition come in and well, not making the impacts people expected it a bit understandable. As Driver362 has pointed out mistakes have been made on the LCB side, and there starting to get corrected, but there's still a bit of work to go. hopeful more pencil sharpening takes place in the new year.

I can well believe a senior manager at dean saying that after seeing the routes being suggested and the lack of weekly tickets being offered, Even I was like that, my money was on LCB to start with, when the news broken. There is two things I still believe: A; First know Lothian were coming, B: If LCB had weekly ticket they would win and that would be the end of it.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Let's take both points together.

The views of bad press and emails and comments, have been ongoing for years, Well before SM: I remember one day at St john' waiting for buses ( during the period when all edinburgh buses were running late because of the trams this would be many moons ago) and people then were like, Red buses need to come back. There were also people complaining about the fare, saying there were getting ripped off. If you at local papers the complaint in them, there also highlight people not being happy. Its Common knowledge.

Kirkliston Community council have just postage "KCC has campaigned for this for longer than I can remember" in announcing the routes. A Community council has made clear there not happy, which means there must be getting public demand and hatred over the incumbent.. I would say it pretty gospel. LCB even admit they got a high volume of request about West Lothian. I would also bet most of existing First passenger are like yes we would like to jump to LCB but can't because of the tickets problems.

I agree the X1 petitions is joke, and will not solve the problems because the X1 is dead during the day.

So called Drama is disappointment. Which is a resulted from the fact the First Scotland East Area being so toxic, and problematic for years, that was of course linked to undertaking from 97 and Scotrail in 04. Public relations is poor, while council funding of route in West Lothian, falkirk and Stirling areas are poorer overall compared to other area like Angus or SPT. So when competition come in and well, not making the impacts people expected it a bit understandable. As Driver362 has pointed out mistakes have been made on the LCB side, and there starting to get corrected, but there's still a bit of work to go. hopeful more pencil sharpening takes place in the new year.

I can well believe senior manager at dean saying that after seeing the route being suggested and the lack of weekly tickets being offered, Even I was like that, my money was on LCB to start with, when the news broken. There is two things I still believe: A; First know Lothian were coming, B: If LCB had weekly ticket they would win and that would be the end of it.

You're still not getting it. There's all this talk of emails, facebook posts, petitions and below the line comments in the paper. This clamour that is reported so naturally people would walk straight from First to LCB. However, they haven't - so why is that? Clearly, a variance between all of this angst and the reality of the situation!

 

[A330Alex]

To break away from this argument a tad, I’m currently on the X28 heading from town to Riccarton. For 11:00 it’s surprisingly busy, no free seat pairs and it’s been picking up people at every stop so far.

I’d be curious to know how the equivalent First service is doing and whether these are ‘new’ passengers or just those that would usually use First.

 

[ScotRail158725]

To break away from this argument a tad, I’m currently on the X28 heading from town to Riccarton. For 11:00 it’s surprisingly busy, no free seat pairs and it’s been picking up people at every stop so far.

I’d be curious to know how the equivalent First service is doing and whether these are ‘new’ passengers or just those that would usually use First.

quite interesting, a few weeks ago i did the X28 around 12 from town to Sighthill and only had 5 or 6 on board, the X28 back into town i got back just after had about 10 most

 

[Volvodart]

Blue Bus are cancelling their 71, 77 and 701 with effect from 20 December 2019 as they are no longer commercially viable.

 

[156478]

Blue Bus are cancelling their 71, 77 and 701 with effect from 20 December 2019 as they are no longer commercially viable.

Hmmm. Will be interesting to see in this climate what or who will replace these, or even if there are replacements. I would recon that the market for these services is mainly at the weekends and concessions.

 

[Jordan Adam]

I'm surprised First don't have a service linking Livingston with Lanarkshire. It wouldn't take much, you could have it operate as an extension of the 26 & 266.

 

[ScotRail158725]

I'm surprised First don't have a service linking Livingston with Lanarkshire. It wouldn't take much, you could have it operate as an extension of the 26 & 266.

same here, was something id have expected

 

[Observer]

Blue Bus are cancelling their 71, 77 and 701 with effect from 20 December 2019 as they are no longer commercially viable.

That's all their service work gone then. Makes you wonder if they regret not taking on those SPT contracts earlier in the year, or if they just want out of service work in general.

 

[lastbus]

That's all their service work gone then. Makes you wonder if they regret not taking on those SPT contracts earlier in the year, or if they just want out of service work in general.

They have a contract with Motherwell college.

 

[overthewater]

You're still not getting it. There's all this talk of emails, facebook posts, petitions and below the line comments in the paper. This clamour that is reported so naturally people would walk straight from First to LCB. However, they haven't - so why is that? Clearly, a variance between all of this angst and the reality of the situation!

Because of two reasons: Weekly/monthly tickets are not good enough and B: Certain Routes are not good enough. Of course if your working in the Tesco plant Its £1.70 single no matter where you live in WL, Thus that was the cleverest thing LCB have done, because First have pulled out of 29..

Blue Bus are cancelling their 71, 77 and 701 with effect from 20 December 2019 as they are no longer commercially viable.

Who was it that said this would happen because of LCB moving in? SPT already pays for evening and Sunday service between Shotts and Hartill so I take the 365 will be revised to every 2 hours?

So Would First or LCB extend beyond Fauldhouse to Shotts? And what about the Lanark route that been going for years but again Struts operate 34: Lanark to Forth

I doubt anyone would take these one, Would LBC be allowed?

 

[TheEastCoaster]

Of course if your working in the Tesco plant Its £1.70 single no matter where you live in WL, Thus that was the cleverest thing LCB have done.

Unless of course you live in Blackridge

I think at the end of the day, from what I’ve observed on this forum the past year, LCB so far has expected everyone’s expectations, I can’t say it’s been perfect because I doubt anyone would agree but I haven’t agreed with certain things like the lack of proper weekly tickets and certain routes like the 281 which do eventually get hacked! I mean to me any positive change sounds like someone is listening and that it will get better, though that’s no doubt how I’ve been raised to be

Them axing the Ex1, increasing the X27/X28 is one of the better changes, obviously I can’t comment on the X38 just yet but I hope the route does well, the X18 seems to hold out well and the X17 has its fans at peak times! at this point Lothian have come so far and invested a lot in West Lothian for better or for worse. I just hope they keep thinking of more sensible solutions for the future!

 

[Driver362]

Totaly agree with your observations eastcoster, good but not perfect, work in progress!

 

[TheEastCoaster]

Service Change 17 November


Last week we announced that we would be making changes to our network from 17 November.

Here is more information on these changes for our customers:

X17 – There will be a minor route change within Fauldhouse with buses serving Lanrigg Road and Eastfield Road in both directions between Main Street and Sheephousehill. A revised timetable will be introduced.

X18 – This service will have a revised timetable.

X27 – This service will have a revised route and timetable. The route will be the same from Edinburgh to Livingston Bus Station, then it will run via Howden, St John’s Hospital, Ladywell Eagle Brae, Eliburn, Seafield, Blackburn to Whitburn West End. The Monday to Saturday daytime frequency will double to every 30 minutes.

X28 – This service will operate a revised timetable with Monday to Saturday daytime journeys doubled to every 30 minutes.

X38 – A NEW service from Linlithgow Bridge to Edinburgh, via Linlithgow, Winchburgh, Kirkliston, Ratho Station and Corstorphine. This service will operate up to every 20 minutes Monday to Saturday, and every 30 minutes on a Sunday.

43/X43 – This service will run a revised Monday to Friday peak time timetable with an additional X43 journey in the mornings and evenings. There will be a minor timetable change on Saturday mornings.

275 – This service will operate a revised route and timetable. Buses will run from Livingston Bus Terminal to Edinburgh Park. The section of the route to Whitburn will be replaced by the Service X27. Evenings and Sundays the route will operate Livingston to Broxburn only.

280 – This service will have a minor timetable change, including a revised early morning timetable on all days.

281 – This service will be withdrawn WITHDRAWN.

287 – This service will operate a revised route and timetable with buses running via Livingston Village instead of Eliburn/Eagle Brae. In Bathgate, the route will extend to terminate to the Rail Station.

EX1 – This service will be WITHDRAWN.

EX2 – This route will be extended in Edinburgh to serve George Street and St Andrew Square, where the service will terminate. From Haymarket to St. Andrew Square, the route in both directions will be: Haymarket, Morrison Link, West Approach Road (The Exchange), Lothian Road, South Charlotte Street, George Street. A revised timetable will also be introduced.

If you have any questions, please contact us on our social channels or speak to our customer services team

 

[overthewater]

Doesn't look like x17 /X18 will move from its 30min freq.

 

[Jordan Adam]

Service Change 17 November


Last week we announced that we would be making changes to our network from 17 November.

Here is more information on these changes for our customers:

X17 – There will be a minor route change within Fauldhouse with buses serving Lanrigg Road and Eastfield Road in both directions between Main Street and Sheephousehill. A revised timetable will be introduced.

X18 – This service will have a revised timetable.

X27 – This service will have a revised route and timetable. The route will be the same from Edinburgh to Livingston Bus Station, then it will run via Howden, St John’s Hospital, Ladywell Eagle Brae, Eliburn, Seafield, Blackburn to Whitburn West End. The Monday to Saturday daytime frequency will double to every 30 minutes.

X28 – This service will operate a revised timetable with Monday to Saturday daytime journeys doubled to every 30 minutes.

X38 – A NEW service from Linlithgow Bridge to Edinburgh, via Linlithgow, Winchburgh, Kirkliston, Ratho Station and Corstorphine. This service will operate up to every 20 minutes Monday to Saturday, and every 30 minutes on a Sunday.

43/X43 – This service will run a revised Monday to Friday peak time timetable with an additional X43 journey in the mornings and evenings. There will be a minor timetable change on Saturday mornings.

275 – This service will operate a revised route and timetable. Buses will run from Livingston Bus Terminal to Edinburgh Park. The section of the route to Whitburn will be replaced by the Service X27. Evenings and Sundays the route will operate Livingston to Broxburn only.

280 – This service will have a minor timetable change, including a revised early morning timetable on all days.

281 – This service will be withdrawn WITHDRAWN.

287 – This service will operate a revised route and timetable with buses running via Livingston Village instead of Eliburn/Eagle Brae. In Bathgate, the route will extend to terminate to the Rail Station.

EX1 – This service will be WITHDRAWN.

EX2 – This route will be extended in Edinburgh to serve George Street and St Andrew Square, where the service will terminate. From Haymarket to St. Andrew Square, the route in both directions will be: Haymarket, Morrison Link, West Approach Road (The Exchange), Lothian Road, South Charlotte Street, George Street. A revised timetable will also be introduced.

If you have any questions, please contact us on our social channels or speak to our customer services team

I do wish they'd add the timetables. I could understand if it was just a consultation. But it seems a bit pointless sending out two press releases that don't really tell you much (the first only really listed the improvements and ignored the services that are being cut or axed. If they're waiting for the timetables to be done then they shouldn't have published the press release.

The aside the changes are quite good, pleased to hear the X38 will be on a 20 minute frequency and the X27 is a route i've been saying should be done since day one, the X27/X28 being doubled in frequency must be saying something, i know Lothian can be very over the top optimistic at times - but doubling the frequency will definitely hurt First's 23/X23. However on the opposite end of the scale the reduction to Fauldhouse and Knightsridge probably won't do them any favours, especially given first will have a high frequency whereas Lothian will not.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

I do wish they'd add the timetables. I could understand if it was just a consultation. But it seems a bit pointless sending out two press releases that don't really tell you much (the first only really listed the improvements and ignored the services that are being cut or axed. If they're waiting for the timetables to be done then they shouldn't have published the press release.

The aside the changes are quite good, pleased to hear the X38 will be on a 20 minute frequency and the X27 is a route i've been saying should be done since day one, the X27/X28 being doubled in frequency must be saying something, i know Lothian can be very over the top optimistic at times - but doubling the frequency will definitely hurt First's 23/X23. However on the opposite end of the scale the reduction to Fauldhouse and Knightsridge probably won't do them any favours, especially given first will have a high frequency whereas Lothian will not.

I agree I do wish the timetables were released now but this is still good enough to be fair, it’s good to hear the X27/X28 are gonna go every 15 minutes between Edinburgh - Livingston, that should please fellow commuters! I’m very curious to see the X17/X18 revised timetables, perhaps a working gap to connect between Gogar and Newbridge on the X38/200/275 etc. Admittedly the 275 Sunday service is very surprising, is the service that underused after Broxburn on a Sunday? Though with the X17/X18 to change to I suppose it’s not the end of the world.

Totaly agree with your observations eastcoster, good but not perfect, work in progress!

Thank you! I was really trying to be non-bias to both operators and people’s opinions! I can see the positives kicking in and Rome wasn’t built in a day.

 

[PaulMc7]

There's a lot of positives coming around from the releases so far. It'll all be clear from the timetables but it's certainly more positive as far as responses go on here compared to the usual flared tempers and side taking

 

[Weemidi135]

I do wish they'd add the timetables. I could understand if it was just a consultation. But it seems a bit pointless sending out two press releases that don't really tell you much (the first only really listed the improvements and ignored the services that are being cut or axed. If they're waiting for the timetables to be done then they shouldn't have published the press release.

The aside the changes are quite good, pleased to hear the X38 will be on a 20 minute frequency and the X27 is a route i've been saying should be done since day one, the X27/X28 being doubled in frequency must be saying something, i know Lothian can be very over the top optimistic at times - but doubling the frequency will definitely hurt First's 23/X23. However on the opposite end of the scale the reduction to Fauldhouse and Knightsridge probably won't do them any favours, especially given first will have a high frequency whereas Lothian will not.

what reduction in faulhouse?

 

[Jordan Adam]

what reduction in faulhouse?

My mistake, i meant to say along that corridor rather than Fauldhouse itself!

********* Separate post **********

It appears the social media team know very little about the changes too.

 

[A330Alex]

My mistake, i meant to say along that corridor rather than Fauldhouse itself!

********* Separate post **********

It appears the social media team know very little about the changes too.

Mild rant but speaking of social media, I think LB/LCB (and frankly most bus companies) could do a way better job at announcing changes. Something like announcing a new/improved/changed service each day for a week would add some 'hype' and make the announcements reach more people than a drab statement with a link to the webpage.

The replies are pretty meh as well. Even saying something like "Thanks for the feedback! We really appreciate it." rather than a drab "Your comment has been logged." would be an improvement. They seem to be told to use such a boring 'professional' tone of voice.

 

[Observer]

Could be worse, could be First's social media / customer service department!

 

[PaulMc7]

Could be worse, could be First's social media / customer service department!

Don't get me started on how horrendous that is haha

 

[Siemens Trains]

To break away from this argument a tad, I’m currently on the X28 heading from town to Riccarton. For 11:00 it’s surprisingly busy, no free seat pairs and it’s been picking up people at every stop so far.

I’d be curious to know how the equivalent First service is doing and whether these are ‘new’ passengers or just those that would usually use First.

I'd be curious to know how many of these people continued beyond Hermiston and into Wilkieston.

Hordes of passengers would bail out here because their weekly ticket (£19 Ridacard) is no longer valid.....

 

[Driver362]

I agree I do wish the timetables were released now but this is still good enough to be fair, it’s good to hear the X27/X28 are gonna go every 15 minutes between Edinburgh - Livingston, that should please fellow commuters! I’m very curious to see the X17/X18 revised timetables, perhaps a working gap to connect between Gogar and Newbridge on the X38/200/275 etc. Admittedly the 275 Sunday service is very surprising, is the service that underused after Broxburn on a Sunday? Though with the X17/X18 to change to I suppose it’s not the end of the world.



Thank you! I was really trying to be non-bias to both operators and people’s opinions! I can see the positives kicking in and Rome wasn’t built in a day.

Correct

 

[Jordan Adam]

I agree I do wish the timetables were released now but this is still good enough to be fair, it’s good to hear the X27/X28 are gonna go every 15 minutes between Edinburgh - Livingston, that should please fellow commuters! I’m very curious to see the X17/X18 revised timetables, perhaps a working gap to connect between Gogar and Newbridge on the X38/200/275 etc. Admittedly the 275 Sunday service is very surprising, is the service that underused after Broxburn on a Sunday? Though with the X17/X18 to change to I suppose it’s not the end of the world.

Thank you! I was really trying to be non-bias to both operators and people’s opinions! I can see the positives kicking in and Rome wasn’t built in a day.

Not sure i'd agree it's good enough. Basically all this second press release tells us is the frequency increase for the X27/X28 and the reduction of the Sunday 275. I just don't see why there was a need for two press releases. If i'm honest it would appear the first one was sent out to get the media outlets on side as it didn't mention any of the reductions (clearly worked), the second one confirms the reductions for residents. However is very vague/limited in what it says. Rome wasn't built in a day, however the timetables are already finalised and registered so if the final booklets are not ready they should've published draft versions like most "other" operators do.

That aside, could we possibly be seeing the 275 fully converted to single deckers to allow deckers on the much improved X27/X28. It'll be interesting to see what ends up on the X38, i think as mentioned before it may be those refurbished B7RLEs.

 

[lastbus]

I'm surprised First don't have a service linking Livingston with Lanarkshire. It wouldn't take much, you could have it operate as an extension of the 26 & 266.

First in Lanarkshire don’t have the staff nor the buses for any route extensions.

 

[Jordan Adam]

First in Lanarkshire don’t have the staff nor the buses for any route extensions.

That may be the case, however the extension could be done with only 1 extra bus needed on the PVR, if that.

 

[lastbus]

That may be the case, however the extension could be done with only 1 extra bus needed on the PVR, if that.

From Shotts to Livingston with 1 extra bus at what frequency?