West Lothian buses

[mb88]

What about people going to Kirkton Campus? Of course people were only going up there at certain times of the day, and the council HAD JUST scraped it's council route partly because of the 275. Again First still operate to the area.

I must admit this is a strange one. Sending yet another bus round Howden when they could of just run the X27 the current 275 from the centre to Whitburn. Although again I will say from my experience, very, very few passengers were picked up at the Alba Centre or elsewhere in Kirkton.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

I must admit this is a strange one. Sending yet another bus round Howden when they could of just run the X27 the current 275 from the centre to Whitburn. Although again I will say from my experience, very, very few passengers were picked up at the Alba Centre or elsewhere in Kirkton.

I think it’s so Whitburn won’t be lost without a link to St John’s Hospital, they must think that’s a bigger priority over the students.

Mind you maybe the 275 will have a revised route in Livingston, I.e serve the campus before turning back to terminate at the centre

 

[Driver362]

Delete what? LCB just needs to go all in and get it over with...

My comments, I had a what's the point moment and deleted the comments.

 

[overthewater]

My comments, I had a what's the point moment and deleted the comments.

To me that looks like you can defend the company anymore.

 

[Jordan Adam]

@Jordan Adam just want to answer some the points here as I think my points have been misinterpreted... I will caveat that I honestly don't care who wins in West Lothian so I'm not trying to start an argument! Its an interesting scenario that I am intrigued as are many to see how it's going to play out.

I didn't ever think you were trying to start an argument, we all have differing opinions and i think a great thing about this forum is we have the ability to discuss them and present our reasons/thoughts. I was deliberately "First bias" in my last post as i was trying to present a somewhat counter view from the opposite side of what your were saying. Likewise i'm not too cared who wins in West Lothian, although i do have my concerns about all the damage this is doing long term. If Lothian were to pull the plug then first would probably have to increase it's fleet and add a route similar to the X18 to fill those gaps, arguably if First went there would be massive issues as the Lothian network is somewhat limited in what it offers. I do believe the implementation of Lothians expansion has been very poor, especially in regards to the tickets and routes. That said the X18 was clearly the best idea and a good one at that.

I didn't assume that - I know you will get different camps of people with different requirements hence I caveated my statement from the word go. I simply don't think it appeals to the majority of users and I am suggesting its perhaps LCBs view and thus explains their stance. If we had £1 for everytime it was brought up in this thread without a counter theory being offered, we'd be flush.

It was more a generalisations, as many people on here besides yourself seem to believe or think people only travel 5 days a week. As i say, this isn't really the case, especially not with the younger generation who are more inclined to use Public transport.

If I ran a company charging x and company b else came along and successfully charged y, and I was focussed on maximising profit, the first question I'd be asking would be why we aren't charging y as well. I'd bank that I'm not going to lose customers to company b if my product is equal or superior.

I can see your point, however again the better value for money factor comes in. Lothian having slight better interiors on their vehicles isn't going to sway people, it's all about who can get you from a to b, hassle free at the best price.

I don't disagree massively here - however the only city cuts that affected ECB load that I can think of was the truncation of the X15 - affecting a tiny proportion ECB network. Again like WCM, ECB has transformed the quality of fleet (which costs money) and seem to making something First said was unsustainable work very well. Its largely semantics. I am just pointing to First long and public track record of "when the going gets tough, First get going" - the same track record that LCB were, and perhaps are still banking on.

The 26 also got a frequency reduction (Reduced from 12 buses per hour to just 8).

 

[scotrail158713]

The 26 also got a frequency reduction (Reduced from 12 buses per hour to just 8).

And the 44 to Tranent got cut with the Tranent 26’s changing to terminate at Windygoul

 

[overthewater]

Then there the cuts in Midlothian, party down to the train and no competition.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

And then there the West Lothian cuts.. oh wait that’s still ongoing

 

[Jordan Adam]

Then there the cuts in Midlothian, party down to the train and no competition.

Another point to note with Borders is the opening of the Borders Railway, this would've drastically reduced numbers on the 62/X95 and the frequency cuts on both services in the last 5 or so years reflect that.

 

[oldman]

The railway doesn't impact much on the X62 which hasn't changed its basic frequency for many years - there may have been detail changes but that's all. First halved the X95 north of Gala.

 

[Jordan Adam]

The railway doesn't impact much on the X62 which hasn't changed its basic frequency for many years - there may have been detail changes but that's all. First halved the X95 north of Gala.

X62/62 has been reduced from a 20 minute frequency to half hourly or poorer. I agree the X95 was hit much harder, however the X62 was still affected nonetheless.

 

[tbtc]

the X18 was clearly the best idea and a good one at that

I'm old enough to remember the days when people were criticising Lothian for introducing the X18 because "who would use a slow bus from Bathgate, compared to a fast frequent train service"...

(I did point out at the time that there was a separate market for a bus from Dunbar/ North Berwick etc into Edinburgh, enough people accepting the cheaper fares compared to speedy train... or local journeys for people unserved by train stations... but now the Received Wisdom on here is that the X18 was A Good Thing and all the complaints about it have been forgotten)

 

[oldman]

X62/62 has been reduced from a 20 minute frequency to half hourly or poorer. I agree the X95 was hit much harder, however the X62 was still affected nonetheless.

Within the last five years - I don't think so. But happy to be proved wrong. And while you're at it, when did the Lothian 26 go from 12 to 8 per hour? Since ECB?

 

[overthewater]

I'm old enough to remember the days when people were criticising Lothian for introducing the X18 because "who would use a slow bus from Bathgate, compared to a fast frequent train service"...

(I did point out at the time that there was a separate market for a bus from Dunbar/ North Berwick etc into Edinburgh, enough people accepting the cheaper fares compared to speedy train... or local journeys for people unserved by train stations... but now the Received Wisdom on here is that the X18 was A Good Thing and all the complaints about it have been forgotten)

I still have my doubts over this route. How many people are really using it end to end? It's not pass holders or commuter because there would have switched to Ex1 like a shot. We should be asking is why no
commuter used the EX1? was it because it was overpriced? was it to far way for people to get to?

It's more like alot of shorter journeys throughout the route, especially to that Tesco ( no matter where you lived it's only £1.70 to the Tesco) one of the only smart things Lothians done with its fares..

Within the last five years - I don't think so. But happy to be proved wrong. And while you're at it, when did the Lothian 26 go from 12 to 8 per hour? Since ECB?

Was that not just after First pulled out Clerwood?

 

[TheEastCoaster]

The whole CityWEST fare zone escapade is causing confusion and debate on twitter again..

 

[A330Alex]

It's not helped by politicians/EEN saying Lothian are launching the service rather than Lothian Country

 

[overthewater]

The whole CityWEST fare zone escapade is causing confusion and debate on twitter again..

We still don't know IF the ridarcards will be allowed on X38.. In theory there should..


Look at that spin from scotsman, Lothian should use the other 3 coaches to operate an hourly service from Whitburn - Blackburn - Deans Knightsbridge - Edinburgh.

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman....n-lothian-boosts-services-west-lothian-651376

Edinburgh bus wars start again as Lothian boosts services to West Lothian
BUS wars are set to return after Lothian Buses announced new, improved and re-routed services in West Lothian, traditionally the territory of rivals First Group.

The latest move comes after the head-to-head competition between the two companies in Edinburgh’s open-top city bus tour market over the summer.

From November 17 Lothian will expand, re-route and increase the frequency of its Lothiancountry X27/X28 services, creating new direct links to Edinburgh from Blackburn, Eliburn and Howden, as well as faster journeys from Whitburn to St John’s Hospital and new direct links from Whitburn to the Calders for Heriot Watt University, Napier University and Edinburgh College.

There will be a new Sunday service on the X17 route, as well as later journeys Monday-Saturday between Edinburgh and Fauldhouse.



And service 287 will be re-routed to serve Livingston Village, offering direct links to St John’s Hospital, Livingston Centre and Bathgate.

Lothian commercial director Nigel Serafini said: “Following customer feedback and route analysis, we are delighted to introduce changes to our current network to better serve the local community of West Lothian.

“Following years of requests from a wide range of our customers and stakeholders, the introduction of a new X38 service will offer regular journeys from Linlithgow to Edinburgh, serving other key areas along the route, in particular giving residents in Kirkliston a long awaited Lothian operated service to and from the city centre.

Lothian’s latest move appeared to be endorsed by city transport convener Lesley Macinnes. She said: “Any measures that promote the use of public transport by increasing choice and frequency are to be welcomed.”

Lothian launched its new Lothiancountry routes in West Lothian in summer 2018.



Then in March 2019, First announced plans to retaliate by introducing some services in Edinburgh.

Lothian unveiled new express services between West Lothian and Edinburgh in May.

And in July First entered the open-top hop-on-hop-off tours market, under-cutting Lothian’s £16 fare with its £10 ticket.

First also stepped up the frequency of its 600 service from Livingston and Edinburgh Airport.

 

[Weemidi135]

We still don't know IF the ridarcards will be allowed on X38.. In theory there should..


Look at that spin from scotsman, Lothian should use the other 3 coaches to operate an hourly service from Whitburn - Blackburn - Deans Knightsbridge - Edinburgh.

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman....n-lothian-boosts-services-west-lothian-651376

The coaches can’t really be used on normal routes due to the ramp being awkward

 

[overthewater]

It would have given Whitburn - Blackburn - Deans Knightsbridge a fast service to Edinburgh, with little competition from the train from the first two places.

 

[oldman]

Look at that spin from scotsman, Lothian should use the other 3 coaches to operate an hourly service from Whitburn - Blackburn - Deans Knightsbridge - Edinburgh.

If they are planning a new route, I guess they would go for half-hourly which means more buses. Doing two routes with the number of buses they had meant cutting them short at the West End and not going beyond Bathgate, which were both weaknesses. They'll need to decide whether there is a future in Green Arrow before spending more.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

We still don't know IF the ridarcards will be allowed on X38.. In theory there should..

Given it’s a LCB route I don’t see why they wouldn’t be, and someone asked Lothian if Ridacards would be accepted in Kirkliston in which they said they will be, and then there’s the discount to Winchburgh £1.70 and Linlithgow £2.70

If they are planning a new route, I guess they would go for half-hourly which means more buses. Doing two routes with the number of buses they had meant cutting them short at the West End and not going beyond Bathgate, which were both weaknesses. They'll need to decide whether there is a future in Green Arrow before spending more.

If one route is cut (Ex1) and the other is still growing (Ex2) along with an LCB equivalent (X38), it makes me wonder that too. Especially in an earlier point if it turns out Lothian will just be competing with itself like with the Ex1/X18. And there’s no official confirmation of the X18 is getting a 20 minute increase. What’s to say the X38 will be picking up Ex2 passengers because it’s slihhtly cheaper and offers more connections.

If the Ex2 stays strong after this then hats off to them, but if history repeats itself then I don’t see Green Arrow lasting long

 

[overthewater]

If they are planning a new route, I guess they would go for half-hourly which means more buses. Doing two routes with the number of buses they had meant cutting them short at the West End and not going beyond Bathgate, which were both weaknesses. They'll need to decide whether there is a future in Green Arrow before spending more.

IF GA goes pop soon, then there worse than first...

Given it’s a LCB route I don’t see why they wouldn’t be, and someone asked Lothian if Ridacards would be accepted in Kirkliston in which they said they will be, and then there’s the discount to Winchburgh £1.70 and Linlithgow £2.70

There been telling other people there don't know. Also those discount fares are only useful if you need to travel around Edinburgh. Single fares are waste of space bolt on to the Rider card it would cost £68 a month.. yet you can get Travel passenger for half the price.

If one route is cut (Ex1) and the other is still growing (Ex2) along with an LCB equivalent (X38), it makes me wonder that too. Especially in an earlier point if it turns out Lothian will just be competing with itself like with the Ex1/X18. And there’s no official confirmation of the X18 is getting a 20 minute increase. What’s to say the X38 will be picking up Ex2 passengers because it’s slightly cheaper and offers more connections.

If the Ex2 stays strong after this then hats off to them, but if history repeats itself then I don’t see Green Arrow lasting long

Ex2 passengers will not switch to X38, the X38 is awful and long, and if you live in Springfield there is no point.. How can the Ex1 compete with its self with there were no passenger to knick..Thats why the EX1 was started because there it wasn't going to compete with its self..

 

[Jordan Adam]

Within the last five years - I don't think so. But happy to be proved wrong. And while you're at it, when did the Lothian 26 go from 12 to 8 per hour? Since ECB?

The 62 was on a 20 minute frequency prior to the railway opening, it then got cut to Half Hourly and extended to Melrose full time. The 26 used to be on a 5 minute frequency now a 7/8 minute frequency. Not sure on the exact date this happened. However I'll take a look later when I have access to my computer, I can also post a copy of the 62 timetable if you'd like (just to show it was on a 20 minute frequency).

 

[ScotRail158725]

apologies if its already been mentioned but what vehicles will the X38 use?

 

[Bus9120UK]

apologies if its already been mentioned but what vehicles will the X38 use?

This has not yet been confirmed. Many rumours have been said, saying some East Coast Buses B8 Wright Eclipse 3's will be used or ADL E300 MMC's. Another rumour is that they will use Eclipse 2's which have just got their seats replaced, especially since they have not been repainted.

 

[ScotRail158725]

This has not yet been confirmed. Many rumours have been said, saying some East Coast Buses B8 Wright Eclipse 3's will be used or ADL E300 MMC's. Another rumour is that they will use Eclipse 2's which have just got their seats replaced, especially since they have not been repainted.

sound cheers, would be nice to see doubles on it *edit i forgot the bridge at Linlithgow station is like 14 feet or something*

 

[Jordan Adam]

sound cheers, would be nice to see doubles on it *edit i forgot the bridge at Linlithgow station is like 14 feet or something*

Try closer to 10ft!

 

[ScotRail158725]

Try closer to 10ft!

its not that small is it? definately looks way bigger than that. i was pretty sure it was 14ish feet

 

[Jordan Adam]

its not that small is it? definately looks way bigger than that. i was pretty sure it was 14ish feet

The Bridge at Linlithgow Station is 14ft, however the canal bridge further along is only 10ft 9.

 

[ScotRail158725]

The Bridge at Linlithgow Station is 14ft, however the canal bridge further along is only 10ft 9.

im on about the stations one. not been to linlithgow by bus in like 10 years and didnt even remember the canal one existed