West Lothian buses

[Observer]

So (and I know that this would probably make sense in the main Lothian thread too) does this mean that ADL is maybe trying to find favour with Lothian for more than just coaches, I know Wrightbus are simply buses and would probably not venture into coaches but with the addition of the new ADL stock for Edinburgh are we possibly looking at new ADL product being bought now instead of the favoured for many years Wrightbus and is there a potential for new buses being bought for the West Lothian side should it start turning a profit after all Falkirk is literally on West Lothian's doorstep

Been said for a while now that Lothian isn't working with Wrightbus any more (other than the ex-London refurbs and even then it seems Thorntons have been doing the recent jobs).

 

[Jordan Adam]

Totally agree re: central doors, I can't see Plaxton selling many Leopard's to Lothian's central door spec. I'd have thought having the front section low floor using the B8RLE bus chassis, potentially with a larger extended low floor area to accommodate both a wheelchairs bay & a larger number of priority seats for would be more attractive / allow for faster boarding & alighting. I'd ditch the dual doors & set the current two bay luggage compartments back to in front of rear wheels and have the steps up in the coach saloon internal for the more able bodied passengers.

We need something like the Wright Commuter again, perhaps not the best looking bus, but my god they were very practical and liked by passengers and drivers.

 

[Swanny200]

We need something like the Wright Commuter again, perhaps not the best looking bus, but my god they were very practical and liked by passengers and drivers.

Agreed there, they did look a bit oddball, but did the job. In terms of ADL, has anyone else other than stagecoach taken on the Panther LE yet?

 

[Jordan Adam]

Agreed there, they did look a bit oddball, but did the job. In terms of ADL, has anyone else other than stagecoach taken on the Panther LE yet?

Yeah, as i say they did look a little odd but they were insanely practical. They also had underfloor storage, while not as much as a full size coach it was a good amount anyway.

I don't think anyone else has went for the Panther LE yet, however i don't think ADL were expecting it to sell huge numbers. Same goes with the Panorama.

 

[Swanny200]

Yeah, as i say they did look a little odd but they were insanely practical. They also had underfloor storage, while not as much as a full size coach it was a good amount anyway.

I don't think anyone else has went for the Panther LE yet, however i don't think ADL were expecting it to sell huge numbers. Same goes with the Panorama.

Well there is always a chance with the Panorama, the way Lothian seem to be dumping their cash I can see a West Lothian/Edinburgh/London service coming along soon with them.

I do feel the LE would have been a better option than the one they have gone for, the LE looks a bit neater than the one they have gone for.

 

[Jordan Adam]

Well there is always a chance with the Panorama, the way Lothian seem to be dumping their cash I can see a West Lothian/Edinburgh/London service coming along soon with them.

I do feel the LE would have been a better option than the one they have gone for, the LE looks a bit neater than the one they have gone for.

Panorama's the 100...

The use of high floor coaches will probably kill off the OAP market.

 

[Swanny200]

Panorama's the 100...

The use of high floor coaches will probably kill off the OAP market.

I can only assume they want to do similar to what Clarkes/Kings Ferry are doing in Kent, High capacity coach to rival the train into the capital, guaranteed seat, no need to park the car etc...

 

[Jordan Adam]

I can only assume they want to do similar to what Clarkes/Kings Ferry are doing in Kent, High capacity coach to rival the train into the capital, guaranteed seat, no need to park the car etc...

Yeah, personally speaking if i was in charge i'd be doing it very differently. There's really no point trying to compete with the train, you'd probably create a far more profitable operation if you worked with the train and used it to your advantage.

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

Given ScotRail's reputation at the moment ... let's not go there.

 

[Jordan Adam]

Given ScotRail's reputation at the moment ... let's not go there.

Perhaps, however the public are still going to pick the train over a bumpy bus that gets caught in traffic!

 

[Swanny200]

Perhaps, however the public are still going to pick the train over a bumpy bus that gets caught in traffic!

Ah but remember there is the magic bus lanes that Lothian think will raise their express services high above the traffic, doesn't think about between West Lothian and said bus lanes

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

Perhaps, however the public are still going to pick the train over a bumpy bus that gets caught in traffic!

They'll end up on a (replacement) bus service anyway!

 

[winston270twm]

We need something like the Wright Commuter again, perhaps not the best looking bus, but my god they were very practical and liked by passengers and drivers.

That's was my line of thinking. Surprised the Commuter never sold in greater numbers for interurban work. I don't see what a dual purpose coach needs large amounts of luggage space for, it's not like they will be used for touring. Just day trips / private hires etc

 

[winston270twm]

Perhaps, however the public are still going to pick the train over a bumpy bus that gets caught in traffic!

Depends on price difference between Train & LCB, it will give passengers a choice. A decent difference in price could swing it for some, if the saving is worth it.

 

[Driver362]

Same old narrative , negative negative negative. I'm glad we came along to provide a conduit for you lots negativity. I can taste the bitterness from here ! Quite frankly getting boring now . Personally I think it shows foresight for its eventual second life . It's not an uncommon practice certainly in the hgv industry to partly spec a truck with one eye on its re sale what's wrong with that businesses strategy? Getting the best value out the coach with the best re sale price . nothing is certain in life and it may be LC fails but all vehicles are assets what's difficult to get with that .I'm pretty sure it will be known what there for in due course then if the spec for there intended use falls short by all means criticism is valid! Until then though it's the same old negative narrative

 

[Jordan Adam]

Same old narrative , negative negative negative. I'm glad we came along to provide a conduit for you lots negativity. I can taste the bitterness from here ! Quite frankly getting boring now . Personally I think it shows foresight for its eventual second life . It's not an uncommon practice certainly in the hgv industry to partly spec a truck with one eye on its re sale what's wrong with that businesses strategy? Getting the best value out the coach with the best re sale price . nothing is certain in life and it may be LC fails but all vehicles are assets what's difficult to get with that .I'm pretty sure it will be known what there for in due course then if the spec for there intended use falls short by all means criticism is valid! Until then though it's the same old negative narrative

Only thing boring is people getting upset over others opinions, the whole point of this thread after all is to discuss Lothian's venture in to West Lothian good or bad. No need to go in to tangent at people who say the slightest negative thing about Lothian. I could understand if people were actually trashing the company and trying to belittle them (like certain Edinburgh enthusiast do...) however we're not, it's a respectful debate regarding the new vehicles. I know you work for Lothian so if it really bothers you that much then perhaps you should considering logging off.

That's was my line of thinking. Surprised the Commuter never sold in greater numbers for interurban work. I don't see what a dual purpose coach needs large amounts of luggage space for, it's not like they will be used for touring. Just day trips / private hires etc

I think the issue with the Commuter was the fact there hadn't been anything like it by that point, some could argue it was ahead of it's time. With it you got the feel of a coach, luggage capacity of a coach, ease of wheelchair accuses of a low floor bus, and the seats while up a few steps were easy enough for anyone to get to. Keep in mind you got all that and 51 seats in a 12.2 Metre vehicle!

The issue with the Panther LE for me is the poor capacity given the size of the vehicles, i can't imagine they're all that economical to run as you effectively have the running costs of a 15M tri-axle coach with the capacity of a dual-axle 12M coach. With the Panther LE you don't really even get luggage space!

Depends on price difference between Train & LCB, it will give passengers a choice. A decent difference in price could swing it for some, if the saving is worth it.

That's true, i think on the whole it all comes down to ease, if you live a 5 minute walk from a bus stop and a 10 minute walk from a station you'll use the train. But some parts of West Lothian are further away from the train than others, it's these that i think First and Lothian should target. I tend to moan about Lothian's route perhaps a little more (First on the whole have the better routes), but i don't see the point on the 25 going in to Edinburgh. What you'd really want is the 23/24 as they are, 25 only running to Livingston, replace the Livingston to Edinburgh section of the 25 by extending the 22 in to Edinburgh and then have a X18 style route.

It seems daft to me that First don't offer a service from Whitburn/Blackburn/Seafield in to Edinburgh given that those areas are not close to any rail stations, yet Deans gets 6 buses per hour.

 

[alchemy]

Only thing boring is people getting upset over others opinions, the whole point of this thread after all is to discuss Lothian's venture in to West Lothian good or bad. No need to go in to tangent at people who say the slightest negative thing about Lothian. I could understand if people were actually trashing the company and trying to belittle them (like certain Edinburgh enthusiast do...) however we're not, it's a respectful debate regarding the new vehicles. I know you work for Lothian so if it really bothers you that much then perhaps you should considering logging off.

So when someone disagrees with you they should log off? Thats a disgraceful suggestion. Driver 362 tries to redress the negativity which dominates this thread to bring some balance by giving his opinions which are equally as valid as yours and others on this forum. I note that he is not the only user who comments on the negativity by certain members and he's right.
That is whats boring!
Keep it up 362, and continue to give balance.

 

[Jordan Adam]

So when someone disagrees with you they should log off? Thats a disgraceful suggestion. Driver 362 tries to redress the negativity which dominates this thread to bring some balance by giving his opinions which are equally as valid as yours and others on this forum. I note that he is not the only user who comments on the negativity by certain members and he's right.
That is whats boring!
Keep it up 362, and continue to give balance.

Not what i was saying at all actually, i was saying if they can't cope with a negative comment about a certain operator then maybe it's best they log off. It was nothing to do with disagreeing, out of anything disagreeing on a matter is a good thing! And if Driver362 does disagree on something then i invite them to state how and why!

I'm not sure how moaning at people you disagree with rather than giving a counter argument is "balancing the thread".

 

[Swanny200]

It seems daft to me that First don't offer a service from Whitburn/Blackburn/Seafield in to Edinburgh given that those areas are not close to any rail stations, yet Deans gets 6 buses per hour.

Whitburn has all those new houses built and the new Heartlands, so you would think a fairly decent amount of people from that housing estate would work in either Edinburgh or Glasgow, what are the options to get to the nearest railway station? which I would assume to be Armadale, either bus or car?

 

[Jordan Adam]

Whitburn has all those new houses built and the new Heartlands, so you would think a fairly decent amount of people from that housing estate would work in either Edinburgh or Glasgow, what are the options to get to the nearest railway station? which I would assume to be Armadale, either bus or car?

Nearest station would be Armadale so the X18 or 21. There's also the 6 operated by E&M Horsburgh which runs hourly from Whitburn to Armadale via the rail station. For Blackburn the nearest Station would be Bathgate, which would require going in the wrong direction (for Edinburgh) on the 21.

It's just odd that the area with no rail service has no bus to Edinburgh. Perhaps one of the mistakes of First's August 2018 network revision.

 

[Swanny200]

It does seem a lot of faffing about, if you were a commuter having to get into a job in Edinburgh before 9am, travelling on a crowded bus then on a crowded train with the possibility of standing throughout both journeys, the option of an express coach service is a really good option to have, I would assume the Lothian one would stop somewhere other than the bus station, but then it wouldn't be an express service really as the drawback is that if you are taking an express coach along the M8 for instance, you are going to be stuck in a jam all the way to Hermiston Gait before you can use the bus lanes, if you go the A71 it can be just as bad and you might as well forget trying to get in or out along the A8 at peak time. So we have a service that is slower than the train, probably comparable in price but you get a seat, is it worth it for a seat?

 

[In Focus]

Whitburn has all those new houses built and the new Heartlands, so you would think a fairly decent amount of people from that housing estate would work in either Edinburgh or Glasgow, what are the options to get to the nearest railway station? which I would assume to be Armadale, either bus or car?

Go to Harthill ,1.5 miles and catch the Citylink is most preferred option from that area, going both East and West .

 

[Jordan Adam]

It does seem a lot of faffing about, if you were a commuter having to get into a job in Edinburgh before 9am, travelling on a crowded bus then on a crowded train with the possibility of standing throughout both journeys, the option of an express coach service is a really good option to have, I would assume the Lothian one would stop somewhere other than the bus station, but then it wouldn't be an express service really as the drawback is that if you are taking an express coach along the M8 for instance, you are going to be stuck in a jam all the way to Hermiston Gait before you can use the bus lanes, if you go the A71 it can be just as bad and you might as well forget trying to get in or out along the A8 at peak time. So we have a service that is slower than the train, probably comparable in price but you get a seat, is it worth it for a seat?

I think it was mentioned on here already, but the new coaches are just going to be used over the X17/X18/X27/X28 rather than on a dedicated service. That's why i was originally saying that they risk killed off the OAP market.

 

[OmniCity999]

the new coaches are just going to be used over the X17/X18/X27/X28 rather than on a dedicated service.

That's just not true...

 

[Swanny200]

Go to Harthill ,1.5 miles and catch the Citylink is most preferred option from that area, going both East and West .

So we are possibly looking at them competing with Citylink (Parks) if they run an express service into the capital, I been out of the area for 4 years now, so does anyone know what the prices are from Harthill on Citylink and do they still pick up from Deer Park too?

 

[In Focus]

So we are possibly looking at them competing with Citylink (Parks) if they run an express service into the capital, I been out of the area for 4 years now, so does anyone know what the prices are from Harthill on Citylink and do they still pick up from Deer Park too?

Yes they maybe thinking Harthill, Whitburn /East whitburn ,M4 j4 then off to Deer Park j3 then back onto M8 and onto Edinburgh.

 

[overthewater]

I think the issue with the Commuter was the fact there hadn't been anything like it by that point, some could argue it was ahead of it's time. With it you got the feel of a coach, luggage capacity of a coach, ease of wheelchair accuses of a low floor bus, and the seats while up a few steps were easy enough for anyone to get to. Keep in mind you got all that and 51 seats in a 12.2 Metre vehicle!

The issue with the Panther LE for me is the poor capacity given the size of the vehicles, i can't imagine they're all that economical to run as you effectively have the running costs of a 15M tri-axle coach with the capacity of a dual-axle 12M coach. With the Panther LE you don't really even get luggage space!

As GW would say its apples and orange here, Panther LE isn't designed to be long distance coach, etc its for short distance work providing quicker operation time for wheelchair access while given passengers a coach feel. The routes in Question don't have a large amount of luggage on the, ie X27, X55, X56.

That's just not true...

Tech it is, there are to be used at this moment of time on X routes, nothing has appeared as dedicated service, if you know otherwise please prove us wrong.

Whitburn has all those new houses built and the new Heartlands, so you would think a fairly decent amount of people from that housing estate would work in either Edinburgh or Glasgow, what are the options to get to the nearest railway station? which I would assume to be Armadale, either bus or car?

So we are possibly looking at them competing with Citylink (Parks) if they run an express service into the capital, I been out of the area for 4 years now, so does anyone know what the prices are from Harthill on Citylink and do they still pick up from Deer Park too?

Hartlands is due a new PARK N Ride for Citylink 900, Alas this has been running a few years late now, but it was the case why put on a slow bus when a New fast express service will appear... Maybe Lothian getting in quick here and starting one...


And I take it no one can re bluff my points about Mr hall and this he is talking smoke and mirrors?

Firstly it does sound there will get used on the X17 and X18, with a chance for a new service. Mr Hall said these new coaches are to specified to attract passengers from cars and trains; then why has it been taken out of Wester Inch? Where there was a higher % of these types of passengers? Also why is he going after a saturated market? Were still no close to improved links to Edinburgh parks or Edinburgh North, Plenty of car drivers here. People are not going to sit on a this coach for over 90mins... just because it has the same comfort as there cars, lets see coach and car are the same but the coach over the double the time.... First will keep its passengers because its cheap simple as.

Richard said about LE B8 "One is that as a tri-axle, it is too long for Lothian’s requirements;" that again makes no sense since He just brought a load of Tri-Axle, Maybe he doesn't want to pay for the real axle to turn? Stagecoach wanted to have some middle ground, Easy access yet coach feelling which if lothian wanted could have had the same seating...

Also why does he even need to mention fact of being able to find Second life's for these coaches? Stagecoach have plans to keep there for at least 8 -10 years how long does Lothian think there's will last 2?



Do there have no faith? also he fails to mention East Coast Buses subsidiary, has seen an increase after he cut back on the lothian routes.

This is all smoke and mirrors and things just don't add up.

 

[Jordan Adam]

As GW would say its apples and orange here, Panther LE isn't designed to be long distance coach, etc its for short distance work providing quicker operation time for wheelchair access while given passengers a coach feel. The routes in Question don't have a large amount of luggage on the, ie X27, X55, X56.

That is true, I'd agree that on the Fife Express network the Panther LE is the better option. Perhaps one of the main reasons being it's sheer presence. However i was more really just stating the fact that a Wright Commuter-esque vehicle would be more flexible in the work it could do while also being cheaper to operate.

Clearly Lothian are considering if things don't go their way what they'll do with the vehicles, so at that perspective the Leopard Interurban would be better. However if they were to "win" the battle then they would in the long run be better with Panther LEs. That brings up another interesting point though, in 7/8 years time when Stagecoach are finished with their Panther LE's what are they going to do with them! Scrap seems inevitable.

 

[overthewater]

There will go to Newcastle to operate the X34 and 100

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

That's just not true...

What is then?